iccutitapnhoj Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I, being a bass player of 15 years, am a self taught musician. But I do understand that Schooling can benifit as well as hinder improv..What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_dup3 Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Neither is "better" ---do both! Get a good technical background & learn what you won't on your own, by studying with others. Teach yourself what others don't offer, or overlook, through your own explorations. Never presume anyone (even yourself) knows it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Depends on your personality. Some people do better working on their own, others need someone else's input more. If you do teach yourself, it's still better not to isolate yourself. Try to hang out with other players of your instrument who are good, and learn stuff from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I have a tremendous amount of music schooling- but only some limited private lessons directly concerning the several instruments I play, with the exception of trumpet.I wanted my own voice, but I also wanted to see what went down at the private lessons. And an overall knowledge of music in it's many guises improves musicianship if not chops.Nonetheless I did not do a performance major in part because I wanted guitar, bass, drums, and singing to be MY thing, my way. (Cue Sinatra)It's good to get ahold of the materials you'd get schooled with on an instrument, and then just mess around with them on your own.Whether you school it or not, you have to provide the initiative to get big gains. It's easy to hide from yourself when learning on your own, and practice familiar comfortable things- I've done too much of that. The things that need practice most are the most aggravating things to try to do... A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnb Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 If you have something YOU think is valid to say, how is schooling going to still YOUR voice? Knowledge does not hurt, unless you believe that ignorance is bliss. Schooling may enable you to communicate your ideas a little easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzman Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 I'm self taught since age of 7, 40 years later......still learning!! Jazzman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Wow, Great topic: I definately think that if you truly have the talent, motivation, drive, passion, etc for your instrument, ... you will seek out all of the knowledge that you can absorb. There are different socio-economic reasons why some seek out different levels of learning.It also depends on why you started playing. For many, ... it starts in the 4th grade of elementary school. ... when band is first offered to most school kids.For others ... it starts much earlier with natural talent.Some folks do not start until much later in life ... as they come out of the closet ... so to speak ... as a "always wanted to be" drummer. I have always felt that if you really want to excel at your instrument, that you will soak up all levels of learning. Experience as many forms of drumming as you can. Go see as many drummers as you can. Seek out learning anywhere you can. NEVER let your ego tell you that you have "arrived" as a player. There is always someone more skilled than you.Always remain a sponge! Learn, learn, learn! DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobLOL Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 I am a guitarist and vocalist. I am purely self taught for the past 12 years. Never learned music theory, don't know the chords either. I just like to improvise freely and through that I have found my sound I like and feel is me, which to my view is the aim of learning. So I have stopped focusing on learning and now... I am free to just play. Discovery.. not learning. Much more exciting mode of music playing and writing. But i aint proud Nawledge. hehehe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 I find that book-learning, rather than providing a single comprehensive path, gives you ideas to send you off on a journey of discovery on your own.If you find a single thing you wouldn't have found on your own, it's worth it to crack the books. More likely you'll find a thousand things. "Always remain a sponge!Learn, learn, learn!" A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeGuitarBoy Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Originally posted by iccutitapnhoj: I, being a bass player of 15 years, am a self taught musician. But I do understand that Schooling can benifit as well as hinder improv.. What are your thoughts?Wow, easy one for me here... How is it possible that Schooling can hurt your improv skills? I'm a very schooled guitarist having learned nearly everything on the topic of music theory and have found that if you truely have the creativity that it takes to improvise and you can do it well, schooling will only give you a larger vocabulary in which to express yourself. Look at it this way, writers studdy their languages extensively so that they can express what they need to say in a 400 page novel and musicians are no different. I find that those people who say that schooling ruins their skills, often have little skill to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumlooney Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Do both, they both have their advantages and disadvantages, the trick is to find a good balance between them to make your own voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zpepperfly Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 I have been playing drums for about 6 or 7 years. In all that time I was completly self taught. I never took lessons, never read a modern drummer magazine or watched any videos. However, everytime I would play I would have a lot of people tell me how good I was and they really liked my style. I had a philosophy with the band I play that I would never practice a song and just "play" by how I felt at the time. Consequently, I would never play the same song the same way(somethimes with a completly different beat). Because of this people really found my drumming very emotional. However.... A few months ago I saw another drummer play and his time seemed so on. He had a consistency that I lacked. So I decided to really looked at my technique, listen to recordings of myself, etc...To my surprise - I wasn't as good as everyone said I was. My time was very bad. My fills on some songs were very similar; my technique was bad, etc... Consequently, I have spent the last 3 months reading every piece of drum literature I can find. I have gotten about 10 drum videos from guys like Dave Weckl, Mike Portnoy, etc... I am studying the rudiments. And finally, I am taking drum lessons from a local professional drum teacher. The result: In 3 months of study I have become so much better it is hard to explain. My techinque, drum knowledge, feel, etc... I was always afraid that if I took lessons it would take away from me the one thing that made people like my drumming(emotion). However, I have found it has just given me more confidence and tools to draw from. I am glad I spent a while developing a certain style, however I firmly believe that everyone needs to study their instrument if they want to excel. If I had started this training about 4 years ago I would be light years ahead of where I am now. I all can say is "What was I thinking". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzman Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Keeping time.......well that has to do with a lot of practice. I used to not pay attention to the sound of the drums as much as paying attention to the hits. Some people get confused when they hit the toms and the sound changes from tom to tom once they leave the snare drum. Distance also frightens some people and tricking them in trying to speed up the drum roll just to try to cover the distance on the drums. A good way to keep time is with a click, or follow a drum machine without all of the frills, play along with pre-recorded music one song after another. Do different styles of music to calibrate you internal CLOCK. You can read all you want but until you PRACICE time to set your internal CLOCK you will always speed up a song or slow down a song, or loose track of the time signature. The hardest thing is doing a drum roll of some sorts to get on time, travel the distance on the drums to make every hit on your internal CLOCK on time. That is why it is sooooooo important to make sure that you can keep excellent time on the bass drum and Hi-Hat. Start off with a simple pattern with the bass drum and the Hi-Hat. Then add one stick at a time, then remove one stick at a time, double hit with the left hand then the right while still keeping the same time with the bass drum and the Hi-Hat. It is a simple excersice but until you are consistant with the back bone of the your drum set, you will never get it right. The whole idea is to SET your internal CLOCK. Once your internal CLOCK is set, the top part of the drumset will be less complicated for you. Eventually you will be able to keep one time on the top of the drums while doing a different time on the bass and Hi-Hat. Just a thought for those who seem to have the same problems. Reading is fine to do but the setting of the internal CLOCK is the key. And the only way I know how to do this is through practice, practice, practice! Peace.......my time is up! Jazzman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 I despise metronomic drumming, when it's supposed to be music. But- I have found that unless you can play with enough time precision to nail the metronome thing, the creative flexibility of time that I love, human rhythm, gets lost in the involuntary inaccuracies. Really good time is so rare, you almost never hear it. When you do hear some really compelling time, it's just magical. Truly hypnotic, really takes you for a ride.Little tiny discrepencies in timing invariably are rounded out by rushing things ever so slightly, but enough to break the spell. " Look at it this way, writers studdy their languages extensively so that they can express what they need to say in a 400 page novel and musicians are no different." I'm a whole hell of a lot more impressed if they can say it in a ten line poem! Or a short story. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howler Monkey Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Stick Control http://princemakaha.homestead.com/files/bewbies.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Originally posted by Howler Monkey: Stick ControlHowler Monkey ... from the looks of your signature graphic ... you need something more than control of the sticks. LOL Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 You guys are cracking me up! The artist should have added two black eyes with that bounce!DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzman Posted July 6, 2002 Share Posted July 6, 2002 Howler Monkey........hell-of-a metronome! Is that 4/4 time or ........just in time! Seeing as though I can't read music anyway the visual will work for me..... I wonder what that would look like with a 1,2,CHA CHA CHA; 3,4, CHA CHA CHA beat!! I think I just lost track of time! Jazzman...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 I took drum lessons.Two words: Stick Control. (The book by Stone) I said I'd be back just as soon as I had a handle on Stick Control... haven't made it back yet, I've got my work cut out for me for years to come. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howler Monkey Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 The really good drummers I know go through the exercises in that book every few months. http://princemakaha.homestead.com/files/bewbies.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iccutitapnhoj Posted July 12, 2002 Author Share Posted July 12, 2002 Originally posted by EscapeGuitarBoy: Originally posted by iccutitapnhoj: I, being a bass player of 15 years, am a self taught musician. But I do understand that Schooling can benifit as well as hinder improv.. What are your thoughts?Wow, easy one for me here... How is it possible that Schooling can hurt your improv skills? I'm a very schooled guitarist having learned nearly everything on the topic of music theory and have found that if you truely have the creativity that it takes to improvise and you can do it well, schooling will only give you a larger vocabulary in which to express yourself. Look at it this way, writers studdy their languages extensively so that they can express what they need to say in a 400 page novel and musicians are no different. I find that those people who say that schooling ruins their skills, often have little skill to start with.I'm sure that you have all the schooling that you will ever need. The farthest that I have ever got was TAB and Drumming in high school. Playing in an orchestra in high school helped with my timming. However.... I have seen individuals who HAVE been schooled, and are good musicians, BUT they couldn't JAM to save their life. Improv is the best way to become familiar with the other musicians you are with. Schooling doesn't ruin my skills.... It challenges me. I was only making a point that to ONLY learn through schooling, the musician can become trapped in the confines of their knowlege. JUST as being self taught can hinder a person from expressive playing. TOO MUCH KNOWLEGE CAN MAKE A PERSON DUMB!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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