Needs Louder Headphones for Drummer!

[Em7add11]

Sorry if this is another one of those annoying, constantly asked questions but..

 

My drummer plays loud when we record in my home studio--which is not big deal. I have a pair of AKG headphones I use for monitoring tracks but they are way too quiet. What's a good/loud pair of headphones that can project the volume necessary for a drummer to hear my rhythm tracks clearly?

[Dwarf]

Something to try is what I use for practice: Get a set of those bud type earphone from a walkman and a set of construction ear protectors (should be about $20). Put the buds in his ears and the ear protectors over. They block out a LOT of external sound. This way he doesn't need the phones quite as loud.

 

This is quite a lot cheaper than a good set of closed ear headphones or a new headphone amp, plus you won't get any leakage from the phones into the mics (if you do he's deaf, call an audiologist )

 

--

Rob

[k1neta]

I use the Beyer dt770pro set - not cheap by any means, but well worth the cash. Works great - lots of volume if necessary, not to mention virtually no leakage. Besides that, they even sound great.

[djarrett]

Metrophone makes some called Studio Cans that seem to work great. The only draw back that I have is that they fit to your ears really tight. This is good for keeping the bleed out, but bad when I start to hear my own heartbeat!

 

Vic Firth offered some studio headphones designed in conjunction with Rod Morgenstien, but I am not sure if they are still offered or not. Anyone else know?

 

DJ

[sign]

I have made a pair of cans for deaf drummers.

Two small speakers from a portable radio mounted in a pair of cans.

 

Connected to the speaker output of the amp they will produce at least 140 dbA on the ears

[Lee Flier]

Well, the drummer won't need a lot of volume if the headphones block out enough of the sound so he can hear everything in the cans.

 

Here's what we use in my home studio:

 

http://www.gk-music.com

 

Works like a charm and our drummer loves them!

 

--Lee

[Prof.Sound]

Originally posted by k1neta:

I use the Beyer dt770pro set - not cheap by any means, but well worth the cash. Works great - lots of volume if necessary, not to mention virtually no leakage. Besides that, they even sound great.

DT770's

 

Second that! I've purchased and used more headphones than I can remember. These have been the best so far, because they isolate exterior noise and ever so slightly accentuate the highs and lows for tracking. Plus, they are comfortable to wear for a long period.

[Em7add11]

I'm going to check out those headphones, and if not try the earphone/constructionphones thing. thanks to all that helped!

[Drumlooney]

I use a pair of sony MDR 7506 (about $100) they sound great and volume is never a problem.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, the headphones I got for our drummer (which I referenced above) have the same drivers as the 7506, but they are built into a pair of airport worker type cans, which cut 29dB of ambient sound (that's a lot). You actually hear the music in the cans louder than your drums, even at reasonable volume in the phones.

 

--Lee

[Tedly Nightshade]

Nasty way to go deaf, to get a bunch of headphone clipping while trying to hear the bass in the drummer's headphones.

I've heard of people using 50 watt power amps to run the phones so at least it wasn't clipping.

How well is the drummer going to play if he can't hear his drums? Especially the cymbals, no wonder he's knocking the lathing off of them (isn't he?)

I can't play worth a damn if I can't hear the instrument I'm playing! This makes this scenario a real problem.

 

Unless you're doing a drum overdub, which is always dubious with a whole kit, just have the bass in the room there with him and tolerate some bleed, just enough that the groove can live and thrive.

There's a really cool Little Labs box that lets you not just switch the polarity 180's, but really adjust the phase anywhere in between, so you can mix a di bass in with the sound in the room with the drummer, from a monitor or bass amp, and have it tight and no phase troubles. I have to get one for just this situation.

We are grooving SO much better with the bass amp in the room , and with no headphones on the drummer, the dynamics and balance between the different parts of the kit are vastly improved, improving the whole end mix.

 

Fletcher is another nut about avoiding headphones when possible and getting better performances that way.

An exception would be if the players were really comfortable with a really kicking headphone system. I haven't been there yet, but I'm sure it's possible.

Ted

[Em7add11]

thanks again for the help!

[td-devi]

SUPERPHONES! SUPERPHONES! SUPERPHONES!DID I SAY SUPERPHONES!!! they are fantastic for drummers or for other players who need to record right next to the drummer.spend the money . they work.

[where02190]

Originally posted by sign:

I have made a pair of cans for deaf drummers.

Two small speakers from a portable radio mounted in a pair of cans.

 

Connected to the speaker output of the amp they will produce at least 140 dbA on the ears

140dbA in headphones will make you deaf, permanently.

 

So seriously, most studios (including us) use the Sony MDR V-7506's.

We power ours with a Rane HC-6 headpnone amp. Lots of good clarity and isolations, and all the volume a drummer needs. We've never had to turn the amp up past 7.

 

You also might try more power on your AKG phones, as they have a higher impedance than msot phones, and require more power. However, I strongly suggest the Sony's.

[JW1970]

I'm not a drummer but work with them often and track other loud sources myself. I've found the following to do the trick (some were mentioned already):

 

Metrophones StudioKans

Sennheiser HD280Pro

GK Music Ultraphones

 

Those all have remarkable isolation so you can keep your headphone mix a lot lower and give your ears a much needed break. They'd be my top choice recommendations for any drummer. The Vic Firth suggestion was good as well, but I do believe the poster was correct in stating that they might be out of production.

 

GK Music Superphones are good as well and their Drumphones are good for practicing (or if you're on a budget). They don't offer as much isolation as the three sets listed above.

 

I don't doubt the Beyer's listed in a previous post are good, probably along the lines of the Superphones for isolation though I haven't tried them out.

 

Also, Sennheiser HD25s are decent...if you like that "in your face (head)" sound. They rock. They probably aren't the best for hearing protection though in the long run as they are too inviting to just crank & crank. They have decent isolation.

 

Maybe most of you know this, but keep in mind when buying any of these that no matter what your instrument, the key isn't how LOUD the headphones are...the key is how much they reduce the outside environment's bleedthrough. That's how you can monitor more effectively AND protect your hearing. Isolation/attenuation is the key.

 

In short, I've been using the StudioKans and Sennheiser HD280Pros now for months. (For drums, loud guitars, tracking, etc.) Gone are the days of me and the people I work with taking our headphones off after a long session and still hearing noise floating about in our ears.

[Tedly Nightshade]

So how does the drummer tell what the hell their drums sound like while they track? Or is that a concern? Isolation phones will totally muffle the sound of the kit in the room, and if you put the drums in the phones, you are working the hell out of them with all those transients.

And what kind of bass can you get across through the phones? That is pushing phones to the absolute limit.

I suppose once you get used to it, you can put in a performance....

Ted

[RABid]

I agree. Go for something that blocks out more sound rather than louder headphones. In ten years you will appreciate the decision.

 

Robert

[Prof.Sound]

Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:

So how does the drummer tell what the hell their drums sound like while they track? Or is that a concern?

Ted,

 

The reality is, drummers who have experience in the cans and on the other side of the glass I think would agree, that you can't really know through headphones how you are going to sound in the end. Its almost an impossible task to be the drummer and great engineer at the same time. You need to rely on the person sitting at the desk for the sound quality aspect.

 

As for hearing the click, beat and bass, good phones allow you to hear all this. Open air or those with poor isolation give the drummer a very midranged/nasil sound that I find less than appealing. Also, at least for me, I will hit harder on loud passages and softer on quiet ones with phones on. I want to hear what the engineer is adding and play to that/those effects, etc.

[Tedly Nightshade]

The engineer has no control over how the sticks hit the cymbals or drums, which is absolutely crucial to the sound. You can't rely on the engineer to hit the drums right, and you have to hear what you're doing to hit them right.

Of course, "in reality" most drummers are just butchers and wouldn't know tone if it bit them on the leg.

Exceptions to this are desperately needed, and the phones ain't helping.

Ted

[JW1970]

I'd like Ted to clarify something if he wouldn't mind. Ted above you're describing your monitoring/tracking setup. Have I understood your description correctly in assuming that the drummer can only hear the bass track in this situation? You make no mention of any other monitor source. Does this mean that all the drummer gets to hear is the bass line? If so, that certainly isn't ideal...nor practical in a lot of situations. And a lot of drummers might feel "naked" tracking that way if they aren't too experienced.

 

However, I will agree...if you can, put the whole damn band in one room and let it rip, at least the basic tracks. If you engineer it right and cover your bases...to hell with bleed through because it'll make your end result sound so much better...and the performance will be in a lot of cases more inspired. (Of course, part of that statement is based on personal taste.)

 

But, if you must track with headphones, as I said above, do it right. Some form of isolation headphone otherwise you'll be damaging your hearing and limiting your career. I'd say SuperPhones or Ultraphones. It's worth the cost.

[Tedly Nightshade]

I mention the bass because that's what clips out headphones the worst, after the drums themselves. I play better hearing plenty of bass, and the bassist getting plenty of drums, which is easy if the bassist is in the room with the drums.

Any other basic tracks would be more or less the same way, if appropriate. I almost always trackt the final drums as basic tracks with bass and keys, or bass and guitar.

I do strongly agree that headphones can do a lot of damage if inadequate to the task, and most are not equal to it. Definitely use headphones that can handle the levels without distortion, and amps that can drive them cleanly to the necessary volume, which is almost always too loud to be recommended for sustained use.

Most folks are pretty disoriented in headphones for the first good while, and comfortable players play better (another reason for great headphones if need be).

Ted

[JW1970]

Thanks for the follow-up, Ted.

[Lee Flier]

Ted,

 

In situations where there are close mics being used on the drums, our drummer prefers to use phones because then he can hear them the way they will sound on the actual recording, and adjust his playing accordingly. In those situations I try to "pre-mix" the drums as much as possible. Since I'm going to know the song and the drummer and I will have worked out a plan as to how the drums are going to sound for that song, we'll get the sounds with the mics and then I'll get a good balance in the monitor/phone mix and add a touch of whatever reverb and EQ I will probably end up using anyway. That way the drummer hears in the phones how they sound and the basic dynamic balance and can play to that.

 

I agree it's probably better not to use phones if you're going for a completely natural drum sound and just trying to capture what's in the room. But if the song calls for something "larger than life" on the drums, where you know the sound will be altered some way in the mix, it's cool if the drummer can hear THAT while playing.

 

--Lee

[Tedly Nightshade]

Gotcha. I'd sure want to hear the flanging if I were doing the drum part to Blue Jay Way! Although I don't think that was during tracking...

Ted

[mdvirtual]

Just did a session with an exceptionaly hard-hitting drummer, and he grought along a pair of Superphones (www.gk-music.com) They were great, really attenuated the room sound so he could hear the phones mix at a reasonable volume. (I wish I'd had a second pair for the bass player)

 

I've also had good success with Beyer DT770's. AKG's are great for vocal overdubs, but way too much bleed for drums. I'm leaning toward Fletcher's suggestion of keeping the bass amp in the room and sacrificing isolation for better feel on the rhythm tracks.

 

Mike Damon

Virtual Productions

www.virtualproductions.net

[MMazurek]

I like having the drummer hear themselves in the cans (and myself when I'm playing). You'd be surprised how many drummers hit with more authority (especially snare & toms) when they hear how it sounds in the mix.

 

(I also like to crank up the hi-hat a little for those 'lead' hi-hat players out there)

[Tedly Nightshade]

(I also like to crank up the hi-hat a little for those 'lead' hi-hat players out there)

 

Ha! Now I see the advantages! That's a great idea.

Ted