Tell me what you think...

[rlhubley]

... of my playing. This is one of the projects that I'm involved in. It's nothing fancy. It is just a demo, so I didn't spend too much time on it. BTW, "the flow" is not up yet. The version that is there is with a lame drum machine. But check out the other two and let me know what you think.

Rip me apart, I could use it!

 

Here is the link.

 

www.pakalolojams.com/demo

 

Be honest!

[Steve LeBlanc]

Nothing but good things to say...I was really digging your feel on "Ain't Feeling No Pain" especially...good stuff, thanks for leaving a link.

[rlhubley]

Thanks steve, I really appreciate that.

 

Surely there's something to rip me on though! I'm glad you dug it. That tune is in 6, it just felt right to keep the 3:2 feel going throughout the tune.

 

Felix, if you check it out, that's my Bamboo snare!!

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by rlhubley:

But check out the other two and let me know what you think. Rip me apart, I could use it!

 

It's times like this I usually offend everyone because I have zero ability to gracefully state my opinions. I can't help myself!

 

I have nothing but nice words for your playing, RL. I think there'd be the temptation to noodle, but you stick with the music. Good time, good feel, and you're locked in with the bass. I dig the afro-cuban thing you do on "Ain't Feelin' No Pain.'

 

If you added a harmonica player, you'd sound like the Blues Travelers. Are you guys a jam band? Maybe a live recording of the songs would capture my ear. The groove was nice, but I'd like to hear more composition in a studio recording. My suggestion for the vocalist would be to stick to his range. He doesn't always hit those notes in the higher register.

 

The song "Ain't Feelin' No Pain" is a good start, but it really needs a bridge so the chorus will have some lift. The song "Smoke Me" doesn't make a good impression on me. Are the lyrics a parody? I thought they were funny. The guitar lick sounds suspiciously similar to "Suspicous Minds."

 

I'd say your band has potential, just need some more time writing melodies and hooks. You have a solid base for something good, though.

[rlhubley]

Gadd,

Thanks for the kind words. As for the critique of the band, I agree. Unfortunately I'm not a "go-getter" so i am just now starting to build a network and ever-so-slowly building a reputation for myself here in Austin. So, I'm kind of taking what bands I can get, as long as they have gig potential, and are on the + side of average, which Pakalolo seems to be. I do appreciate the criticism of the band, or I guess I should say critique. Whatever. It's all helpful. However, I'm more interested in what you guys have to say about the drums, groove, tone, fills, etc, etc. Thanks again!

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by rlhubley:

However, I'm more interested in what you guys have to say about the drums, groove, tone, fills, etc, etc. Thanks again!

 

Next time you record, ask for more snare in the mix. =)

 

I think your fills are fine, but if you're looking for inspiration, you could do more 3:2 stuff. That's always fun, and it might make sense as you go into half-time in the chorus.

 

Two guys come to mind when I think about 6/8: Jeff Porcaro and Omar Hakim. They both excelled in that time sig. Jeff played on an old Sheffield Lab disc caled James Newton Howard and Friends. Jeff plays a couple cool afro-cuban 6/8 dealios on that one. Omar is the master 6/8. Check out the Sting video "Bring on the Night." Killer stuff on "I Burn For You." Also check out the stuff Omar does on his own albums. Cool fills.

[rlhubley]

Thanks Gadd. I familiar with a some of Jeff P.'s work, but not so much on the 6/8 stuff. I know him for his famous shuffle. What a beautiful drummer!

As for Omar, I'm shamefully not all that familiar with his work. I know who he's played with, but that's it. I'll have to seek out some of his stuff and check out what you've suggested.

[Scream187]

ok well this is not my kind of music, but I'll try to stay objective!

 

first of all, nice playing! I agree with all the good things the others already said, so I wont repete it, but do as if!

 

Bottom line: your playing is very good!

 

My problems are with the song. i

 

IT IS stressing the shit out of me! and thats hard cuz I listen to speed metal and shit like that all the time!

 

but those 2 quick hi hat hits (followed by the bass drums) just stress me out! I mean I would be at a club, eating or drinking I would be going crazy!

 

You should do a single hit, or turn the hi hat down in the mix.

 

When the chorus comes its like a relief! woooooooooof it feels smooth now! then when the chorus is done it starts back! It makes you sound not relaxed enough.

 

Maybe I'm just overreacting

 

I dont want to sound negative or anything, I think your playing is very good, I just dont like what you are playing!

[Dwarf]

Hey Rob,

I'm currently listening to "Ain't Feeling No Pain". I'm finding the feel to be kinda stiff, especially the bass drum. It sounds like you were focusing so hard on getting the kick to be solid that everything else became simpler and the groove forced. I notice that in the solos near the end the groove opens up a bit and takes on a bit more character.

 

OK, I've listened to Smoke Me as well. I guess the biggest thing that strikes me is that it doesn't sound like the band is playing together. In fact, it sounds like you rush a bit of the groove when you come in and the rest of the band doesn't seem to react. Did you record your drums parts over an otherwise completed demo?

 

I'd like to hear something live from the band - I like what I hear, it just sounds a little tentative on the demo.

 

--

Rob

[Scream187]

yea "stiff" was the word I was looking for!

 

I only listen to "aint feeling no pain" by the way.

[felix stein]

That band flat out sucks...if I were you I would steal the keyboard player and find something else.

 

I'd say you have potential but need to be in a better band. I don't think it is fair saying your playing is stiff...to me it sounds as if you were "plowing thru" the time because the rest of the band had a hard time keeping it down the line. Am I right? If you were a PIT boy then you know how to play to a click. You need some cats that can really groove to set you free.

 

Steal the key player and don't waste your time unless the pay is good. The talent ain't there, that's okay though...you have to go thru tons of bands to find the one of your life, if ever!

[rlhubley]

Well, first of all, I am happy to know that this many of you have taken the time to listen and critique my playing. I mean that. It really is helpful to have a non-biased listener give an opinion, especially drummers!

I'll try to answer some of the questions you've all posed.

 

I recorded to basically completed tracks. I did all three tunes in the same room, same setup, same kit, etc(in about 3 hours total). There was a 57 on the snare, a Shure kick mic(don't know which one, but i think it was the beta) and 3 crappy overheads. I'd also like to mention that I did very little punching in, etc. I made myself remember that the true purpose of this recording was to get gigs, etc. It is only a demo. I was interested in giving in my all, but not all my time.

 

I agree, the "pain" groove can be painfully stiff. I haven't decided exactly how I am going to do the HH, it changes every time. I will keep the kick and snare the sam however.

 

 

Thanks again everybody, and keep it coming. This is VERY helpful.

 

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: rlhubley ]

[felix stein]

I didn't mean plowing as a bad thing. Sometimes a drummer has to because the other cat's are falling all over the place.

Unfortunately it leaves egg on your face.

 

I'm serious about different people affecting your groove. Some musicians have the biggest pockets and it's so easy to fall in...it's like a river, no matter what you do you are swept up in it...and some rhythm sections are just the opposite...no matter what you do you can't get into it.

 

Keep jamming! When I got out of pitski I had a terrible reputation of quitting every band after being in it a week or so...I went thru some shitty times (well not really, just thought I would make you feel better) but the funny thing was the worse the cats were that I played with, the worse they thought I was- too funny.

 

Have lots of fun, take chances and question everything that is said about the "correct" way to play. But have a vision with every song...ideally. Because idealism is THE last luxury of youth.

[DrummerCafe]

Having listened to the first two cuts of your demo last night, my immediate reaction would probably be much like Felix's original reaction. But after some thought, there is a way to make this band gel more IF everyone does their part. Since my first listening was through my computer speakers, Today, I've decided to listen again as I type this, but with my studio computer (on the LAN) which uses my Genelec monitors, just to make sure. Here we go.

 

Ain't Feeling No Pain

First let's talk about what's not working and what can be done to fix this. This isn't as tight as it could (should) be. Starting from the ground up, the kick drum and bass are not lining up, especially on the syncopated (B) sections and the chorus; when you go to the ride cymbal. The verses are NOT locking in with the drums and the guitar.

 

I disagree with the earlier statements that the drums are stiff and too busy. The drums and the piano/keys are the only thing holding this tune together.

 

In the opening section (whatever you want to call it; I'll call it a verse) the guitar IS the problem. When you all play 2 against the 3, the guitar is slopping through his second hit of the 2:3. This is an "up stroke" on the guitar, and a lot of players have a problem with their timing on these. He's strumming 16th notes, accenting Down, Up ... Down, Down Down. It's that Up stroke or the 16th note just before beat 3 if you are thinking of this in a slow 6/8 (counting in 6). Fixing this will make a HUGE difference in the feel and will definitely tighten things up. The guitarist's groove is very loose, which can be cool, but everyone has to be feeling it the same way. It's clear that not everyone IS feeling it the same way.

 

The bass is all over the place timing wise in the B sections and chorus. Kick and bass are not locking in at all. Sounds like the bass player is just rushing all his figures. I could get more specific with all of this, but let's just leave it for now (too hard/much to type).

 

So that's my take on the tune and the problems with what was played. Now let me say a few things on how to make this a better tune (in my opinion); assuming that the guitar and bass clean up their parts.

 

If you want to go with the "feel" the guitarist is trying to employ, I would lay off the sixteenths on the hihat. You're not stiff, you are just playing them too clean for the guitarist. Going to a syncopated hihat which is more 8th note based with implied 16th notes would probably work better. The A section of the tune sounds like it wants to be more of a Reggae "4 on the floor" feel. Think 12/8, four on the floor, snare still playing the half-time feel. Let the hihat cover straight 8th notes, but also catch the 2:3 with the guitarist.

Basically a shuffle hihat groove over the 2:3 then back to straight eighth notes.

 

Overall, I think you could play a lot more Robert. I feel like you where having to do exactly what you did to keep everyone together. Once things tighten up groove wise, start filling in the holes more and more as the song progresses. Work it like a Reggae drummer at the ends or middle of phrases. We also need more from the drummer; lead us into these different sections of the song ... especially going to and from the grooves that use your Ride. Let your fills get busier and more out as the song moves along.

 

This could really turn-out to be a very cool jam tune.

 

Let me know if you need more detail and explanation.

 

 

Smoke Me

Rather than go into the same comments regarding the guitarist and bassist, let's stick to the drums. With the lazy feel that is coming from the band, you need to lay back (feel not volume) on the snare. You are rushing the second snare hit which is on the AND of 2. Try to open the space up a bit more between those two snare hits. Also, the snare (overall) sounds too far on top of the groove; layback. Keep the hihat and kick where they are, but relax those back beats on the snare. I think this will REALLY tighten up the groove and will fit with the lazy feel coming from the rest of the band. At the end of the tune, the snare sounds like it's flat out rushing.

 

The opening fill sounds a little loose timing wise. Try being a little more aggressive with the ending notes in the fill; don't decrescendo or pull back. If anything, play into the down beats. Many drummers tend to "back away" from the end of the phrase, rather than play into it. Drive It!!!

 

 

So Robert, I think you are very good drummer man; you've got a lot going for you! You've got a nice feel and really play to the music. Your groove ideas are nice and well thought out, and despite the lack of others in the band listening to you, you did an awesome job of keeping it together. That is VERY hard to do.

 

Remember, YOU are driving this bus ... not the other guys in the band ... YOU ARE!!! Take those grooves and drive them right up their back sides. Point out to them that they are not gelling with you; let them know how you feel and what you hear. Work on the feel of the sections in question; both individually and as a band.

 

Hope this helps! Keep up the great work!

[felix stein]

Isn't Bart great? I might buy his Christmas album after all LOL- too funny!

 

I think I will at that.