Best suited drum set for worship service..

[Darcity]

Hello everyone. What's the best drum set suited for worship services? Right now we have a Yamaha Stage Custom set. For our newly built sanctuary, we are putting those drums in our children's church, and buying a new set. We do a lot of contemporary gospel such as Fred Hammond, John P. Kee, Kim Burrell, Ricky Dillard,...to name a few. The whole set will be miked of course with Clearsonic panels. Not counting cymbals, my budget is $2000. Any suggestions on anything?

 

Thanks in advance,

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by dyoung46@bellsouth.net:

Hello everyone. What's the best drum set suited for worship services? Right now we have a Yamaha Stage Custom set. For our newly built sanctuary, we are putting those drums in our children's church, and buying a new set. We do a lot of contemporary gospel such as Fred Hammond, John P. Kee, Kim Burrell, Ricky Dillard,...to name a few. The whole set will be miked of course with Clearsonic panels. Not counting cymbals, my budget is $2000. Any suggestions on anything?

 

I've been playing drums in a worship service for 15 years in a Vineyard church. Since the music is very contemporary, there really are no special needs. However, from my own personal experience, I would stay away from birch kits. You should be able to find a 5-piece maple in your price range. Also, stay away from odd tom sizings. A 10, 12 and 14 config should work well. I never have liked the 12/13 rack tom set up for church.

[Darcity]

Gaddabout, so just even sized drums, like 8,10,12,14,16? What brand? How about cymbals?

[djarrett]

Hey, Darrell:

This is great for you and the church, however ... may I say that $2000 is not a very big budget for a professional level kit ... much less to include cymbals. May I suggest that you guys in the band take up a collection to boost that budget to be able to buy a real nice set that is going to meet the church's needs for a long, long time.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Peace,

Dendy (DJ)

[DrummerCafe]

I totally agree about getting even sized drums. The smaller the better, since they will be easier to control. I don't know that I would mess with getting an 8 inch tom. Focus on getting a few GREAT drums; quality rather than quantity. I'd even consider getting a 20 inch kick drum ... and a wood snare. Again, the smaller kick drum will give lots of punch and less "booming" sound ... which you don't want in a church environment. A wood snare will give a "warm" sound and will be easier to control.Regardless of the size of the church, I would always recommend going with smaller drum sizes.

 

With cymbals, stick to smaller sizes; thin crashes ... medium thin at the most. The bigger and thicker the cymbal ... the harder it must be struck to get a decent sound out of it. The same goes for the drums; big drums have more air in them, so you have to hit them harder to move that air to get a decent sound.

 

I've played in hundreds of churches all over the US; in every Christian denomination there is. There's one thing that is fairly consistant: there's always somebody who complains about the volume of the drums and/or cymbals ... AND ... the soundman wants you to barely strike the drum/cymbals even though they've got you incased in a box with tons of muffling material all around. Although this is slightly exaggerated, the only real exception has been the electronic kits.

[Darcity]

The cymbals will be donated by someone else, well they're offering to pay for what we pick out. $2000 isn't enough for a good 5 piece? So right now, we should get:

1) maple set

2) even-sized toms

3) thin cymbals

4) wood snare(what size)

Should we stay with Yamaha? BTW, I'm helping our drummer pick this out because neither of us knows much about different kinds of wood shells.

 

[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: dyoung46@bellsouth.net ]

[DrummerCafe]

For $2000 you would have to go with Yamaha ... which is a great choice in my opinion. My other vote would be DW ... but you won't get a kit with hardware for that price; maybe just the shells.

 

As far as snare size, I'd go with a 5x14 or 5.5x14 as a good, general, maple snare drum.

 

You can get a YAMAHA Maple Custom 5-pc kit with hardware for under $2K. In fact, you could probably get a 6-pc kit and an additional snare for $2k.

 

Let me know what you plan to get and for how much BEFORE you do it. I'd love to see if I could get you a better price!

[Darcity]

I sure will Bart!! I have to talk to our church's ops mgr today. I will see if I can get more funds. They may make me take it from my keyboard budget, but hey, I have enough anyhow!(Shhhhhhh!! Don't tell anyone!!!) After our meeting at 10am, I'll go by GC and price it. Will post when I get back.

[djarrett]

Hey, D:

 

My comments on the $2000 was without the knowledge of the cymbals coming from another donation. That is great that you have someone willing to do that.

 

Bart is correct in his assessment.

 

I look for your post regarding the progress.

 

Peace,

DJ

[Prof.Sound]

Originally posted by dyoung46@bellsouth.net:

What's the best drum set suited for worship services? Right now we have a Yamaha Stage Custom set. For our newly built sanctuary, we are putting those drums in our children's church...Not counting cymbals, my budget is $2000. Any suggestions on anything?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Hey Darrell.

 

A few questions and I'll answer yours.

 

1. Why deep 6 the S. Customs?

2. What do you want different?

3. Whats the biggest complaint about the sound in your church? Bright, echo, etc?

4. What brands do the stores in your area carry?

5. Any brand you want to stay away from?

6. Do you know what the brand and size of the cymbals will be?

7. Do you know what mics will be used and how?

8. Do you care about how many drums are in the kit?

 

From this "profile" I can get an idea of how to direct you and why.

[Darcity]

Originally posted by Prof.Sound:

 

Hey Darrell.

 

A few questions and I'll answer yours.

 

1. Why deep 6 the S. Customs?

2. What do you want different?

3. Whats the biggest complaint about the sound in your church? Bright, echo, etc?

4. What brands do the stores in your area carry?

5. Any brand you want to stay away from?

6. Do you know what the brand and size of the cymbals will be?

7. Do you know what mics will be used and how?

8. Do you care about how many drums are in the kit?

 

From this "profile" I can get an idea of how to direct you and why.

 

I'm sorry it took so long everyone. On a 5-piece(BTW, do you count the snare? Well, I didn't), we got two estimates: >>>Recording Custom $2049.00

>>>Birch Custom Abs.$1890.00(I know what you said Gaddabout, but they sounded sooo good!!)

>>> Is it true that the maple are brighter? We couldn't really tell, but there were "100" drummers playing also.

 

The following is related to the NEW sanctuary being built as of right now, not the current one that we are in now.

In reply to J. Scott:

1) The Stage Customs(w/o the YESS) are going in the children's church.

2) We want to upgrade to a better quality drum set because that was all that we could afford at that time.

3) I don't know yet. We don't move in until late Feb. early March. We have a sound designer doing the sanctuary and they will "treat" the sanctuary, according to the contract.

4) I live 10 min. from Atlanta(does that help) Okay, DW, Yamaha, Tama, Pearl, Sonor, Premier, can I stop now?

5) Not really. We just want to upgrade. We don't want the set in the CC to sound better than what's in the sanctuary.

6) Right now, we have Sabian AAXs. What do you recommend as a must have (10" splash, 14" thin crash, 14" high-hats, etc.)?

7) Unsure of what mics will be used. All that I was told was that there will be @6-8 mics. Is this something that our sound man needs to pay special attn. to, or a certain brand to get or stay away from?

8) Well, the quotes are for: 8,10,12,14&20. Our drummer came.

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by dyoung46@bellsouth.net:

>>>Birch Custom Abs.$1890.00(I know what you said Gaddabout, but they sounded sooo good!!)

>>> Is it true that the maple are brighter? We couldn't really tell, but there were "100" drummers playing also.

 

Like I said, it was a personal experience after some complaints. I recently sold my Birch kit. There was too much attack in the toms, and getting a warmer sound was the impossible task for me. Those Yamaha Maples are warmer and I think much better suited for a worship setting where acoustic guitar is predominant. Just my personal preference. If you do any recording, I think you'd really hear the difference.

 

One thing you might consider is a Yamaha Maple Absolute instead of a Maple Custom. I believe the Absolute is 6-ply, a thinner shell, and is typically under $2,000. I saw a 5-piece (including snare) at the Guitar Shop in my neighborhood for $1,850 new.

[Prof.Sound]

In my humble opinionm, you need the likes of a Pearl BRX outfitted with Evans G1 Coated heads, and the EQ4/EQ1 kick drum system. Specifically PEARL 2001 MASTERS STUDIO BIRCH w/6-Ply All Birch Shells with Lacquer Finish. Drum Sizes: 8x10 / 9x12 / 14x15 / 16x20 Bass . I don't think you need an 8" tom. And, you could go to the 22" kick, but I think you need to keep the sizes under control, it is still a great sounding kick. And I have to say that I have played this exact kit before and was extremely impressed by its tone. I am a YAMAHA Maple Custom player, and this kit is every bit as good quality wise although different in tone, I'd have no problem owning it, and I bet before the years out, I just might. Why this kit?

 

I'll likely get some disagreement, but here goes...First, they are birch shelled drums, which mean they can give you BOTH a warm sound with coated heads or a sharp defined sound with clear heads. And, heads are a real key ingredient here (the sample on the Pearl site is with G1 clear heads). And if you want them real warm, try a REMO FiberSkyn3 batter w/REMO coated Ambassadr resonant.

 

Second, they are bullet proof, tried and proven, in an acceptable price range (probably around $1550 w/o snare), easy to tune and liked by many drummers. They both record spectacular either with a close mic approach or otherwise and sound superb live. The EQ4/EQ1 kick drum setup keeps the kick in check because its a full resonant head and the sharp edge does not telegraph to the audiance. The EQ4 is full of tone so you do not have the sharp slap being the predominant thing.

 

As for the snare, I'll suggest 2 specific models to start with and explain why. Yamaha Steve Gadd Maple 5x14 . Because....it is a warm sounding drum that has a 10 count snare unit rather than 18. It is designed not to be overpowering and its one of the better built snares out there. Second choice would be the Omar Hakim Signature Series Snare Drum which offers a unique voice that many call the 'Power Piccolo" sound. The 5" x 13" snare drum offers a rare, naturally finished, six-ply, 100% African mahogany shell; 2.3mm shell counter hoops. It sound incredible and again, not overpowering or expensive. I'd use a Genera Snare coated on top and a hazy 200 on the bottm and it will sound like a million bucks on almost all types of music. And for 3rds, the Steve Ferrone 6.5x14 Brass is also superb. Only 3rd due to your price budget!

 

Now one other item, because you are going to use the clear pannels, I strongly suggest you also use the carpet pannels behind you that go up to about 6 feet from Silent Source . One of the biggest problems in a church environment is that the rear walls are usually of some reflective surface, like wood, stone, gold , etc. Using the panels in front only actually amplifies the brighter mid to upper treble frequencies, 2000Hz to 10KHz. The curved panel amplifies this and then it bounces off the rear walls and guess who gets the brunt of that tone. Mr. Grumpy row 10, Seat 3 and his buddy Mr.Intolerant towards the rear.

 

There it is.

 

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Prof.Sound ]

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by Prof.Sound:

In my humble opinionm, you need the likes of a Pearl BRX outfitted with Evans G1 Coated heads, and the EQ4/EQ1 kick drum system.

 

Hey Professor, I followed up on your faith in Pearl and looked around town to see what people were offering. I found two Pearl Master Studio (I think that's what they're called) shell packs for $1,100. I was shocked I could be out the door with a maple kit and a nice snare under $1,600. It may have swayed me from getting that Yamaha!

[Prof.Sound]

Originally posted by Gaddabout:

 

I found two Pearl Master Studio (I think that's what they're called) shell packs for $1,100. I was shocked I could be out the door with a maple kit and a nice snare under $1,600.

 

Yes, for some reason, the maples can sometimes be a little cheaper than the Birch. But I did want to point out, I was recommending the Birch. Nothing wrong with Yamaha, and I really like the R. Customs. But they are ususlly, spec for spec, more.

 

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Prof.Sound ]

[Darcity]

Thanks everyone!! You all have given us a wealth of info to consider. What we're going to do is setup the sets that you've recommended and choose the one that we like best. I'll post again when we make the move.

THANKS AGAIN!!!!

[Jazzman]

Hi all, no comments about what was said, but here is something that I came across. I went into a local music store the other day, they had a used Rolland V-Drum set(a yr old version), it was returned to the store to be sold again. ..........It came out of a church! I wonder why???

Did I hear the word CONTROL!

 

Jazzman

[agogobil]

Originally posted by dyoung46@bellsouth.net:

Thanks everyone!! You all have given us a wealth of info to consider. What we're going to do is setup the sets that you've recommended and choose the one that we like best. I'll post again when we make the move.

THANKS AGAIN!!!!

 

I really think that everyone is missing the point ... you should be getting either Gabriel, Spirit, or Peace drums. Can't go wrong there ...

--------------------------

 

Make God laugh - plan for the future.

[larrytkennedyexcite.com]

Darrell,

Sounds as though you have some great suggestions.

Having played lower end kits (Pearl Exports), birch and maple kits, I find that I prefer birch, too.

If you're going to be using panels and mic'ing the drums, the birch would be a better choice. This is a similar situation to recording drums, and many drummers and producers find that birch drums are easier to get a good sound from because they have a "shorter" tone. Not dead, just resonates for a shorter period. Another way to put this is that less of the drum sound is "wasted".

A good maple shelled drum could be said to make a "wwoooooom" sound, whereas birch drums are more of a "whomph".

 

The good news is that a trip into Atlanta, to Mars, Guitart Center or - my favorite - Atlanta Pro Percussion will yield you some excellent choices in ways to spend that $2000.

Look at the Premier Artist Series birch and maple - GC and APP both carried Premier last time I was in Atlanta, and if they have both the maple and birch kits, you can do a real A/B comparison - same hardware, similar thickness and same finishes.

Other kits you sound take a look and listen to - Pearl Session Custom Select (maple) and Tama Starclassic Perfomer (birch) and Pacific LX (maple).

 

The good news is that if you stick with the major players birch or maple kits, you're going to have a good quality drum kit that sounds great!

It comes down to taste!

 

I will tell you that the sound of my birch kit drew the most complements from both the drummers who came to hear my band and from the guys in my band - even more than my current vintage "Ringo" Ludwig kit!

[joe blow]

the drummer at my church has an electronic kit. it seems to work well because he can control the volume and no mics are needed.

[Darcity]

Man, I can't believe that I forgot about Atlanta Pro Percussion!! I live by Six Flags and I pass A.P.P. to get to GC and Mars. Thanks Larry!! BTW, I like the examples of the sound of birch and maple. Never heard it explained like that before but I immediately got the point, and that's how I will explain it from now on.

[sidereal]

Originally posted by agogobil:

I really think that everyone is missing the point ... you should be getting either Gabriel, Spirit, or Peace drums. Can't go wrong there

 

Unless this is for the Church of Satan. Then that all just goes out the window.