drumtrav Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I'm more concerned about the position of my upper legs and how high the drum throne is. I'm not a hard hitter, and usually play heel down. This way my upper legs do not move all that much. My legs are probly at a 90 deg. angle when playing. Recently I purchased a double-bass pedal. I find myself no playing heel up (sorta pushing off with my toes when playing) every now and then. When I do, I notice that it feels uncomfortable when playing with this technique. I have adjusted my throne to were My legs are greater than 90 deg. This feels fine when playing heeld up, but when I go back to heel down, it feels uncomfortable. I would like to know how you guys sit on your throne, what degree of angle your legs are, and how long did it take to find that sweet spot on posistioning your throne? Also lets discuss at what height/angle your foot board is. Is it in the middle, close to the bottom, or high? How far away (what angle) is the beater from the bassdrum head? When playing, do you strike the bassdrum head and leave the beater there for the next note, or do you release it? Drumtrav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 We discussed about most of this about 5 months ago. I would encourage you to read the following thread for my input at least. http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000089 I play with my thighs pretty much parallel to the floor; but not forming a perfect 90 degree angle. I also let the beater come off the head. When I use heel-up technique, I let my heel drop to the floor when I'm not using it or between strokes. If you are not used to the "heel-up" technique, it may take you awhile to build the muscles and stamina that it takes to use it all the time. I'll let someone else explain more. Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KikkyMonk Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 When you say not perfectly 90 degrees are you legs greater or less then that? I too am having trouble finding a good position for my seat Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Slightly higher, but not much. There have been times when I've played a little lower, so I didn't want to be that specific. You've GOT to find what's comfortable for you. My thought is that when you sit down to play the drums, it should be as comfortable as you are at the dinner table. Try this: Dismantle your drumkit. Take you drum throne into a different part of the house. Adjust the height so that you feel comfortable; not slouching or hyper-extending your back. Now take it back to the room where your drums are. Set the kick drum up and put the throne in place; don't have any other drums but the kick drum and your drum throne. Play the kick drum and make minor adjustments to the throne as needed. Don't adjust too much ... remember you found the comfortable position earlier. Next add your snare drum. Now try playing the kick and snare; how does it feel? Add the hihat. Play the hihat, snare and kick; how does it feel? Continue adding one piece at a time to your drumkit. Build your set around your "perfect" drum throne height. So many times, drummers contort their body to accommodate the kit rather than setting their kit up around a relaxed body and posture. You may have to make minor adjustments from time to time, but try to focus on that drum throne; it's the most important piece of gear in your set-up ...... BELIEVE ME!!!!! Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 drumtrav - Well, first off, I'd take Bartman's advice about setting up / assembling your kit. I think Bart's advice about starting with the throne FIRST, completely away from the kit, is an excellent idea. I normally sit up what seems to be pretty high in relationship to most other drummers I've spoken with. For instance, I believe the top of my throne is roughly 25" - 26" from the floor. The top rim of the snare, about 6" higher. For reference, I'm slightly less than 6', I wear a 32" inseam. So I'm not particularly 'long-legged'. I find that when I hit a jam night, my legs get WAY too tired too quickly when I'm sitting on a throne adjusted too low. Which for me, is MOST drummers thrones! LOL. I find for myself, that sitting up higher straightens out my leg more, and requires me to use the muscles / tendons surrounding the ankle, about the weakest part of the leg, much less. By playing from a higher sitting position, I find that I utilize the thigh muscles more, the strongest part of the leg, a lot more. When I started playing years ago, I never gave it much thought to sit this way. I just knew that if I raised my throne, my legs didn't tire as easily. I guess my pedals are angled a bit less than 45 degrees. Not sure, never really measured them. I do use heel down and heel / toe work in addition to playing mostly heel up, but I haven't really found any difficulty in playing heel down or heel / toe. Possibly I've just become used to this over the years. Perhaps raising your seat would help provide a solution for you as well. Might be worth a try, at least. Probably not too hard to adjust your throne. What I did was find a throne / bass drum relationship that I liked, then raised and arranged the rest of my gear around that relationship. So every felt as comfortable and easy to reach as was possible to achieve. I also jog and bicycle, specifically because I play double bass, and I wanted to try and build up as much stamina as I could achieve for myself. Just something you may want to consider. Just some thoughts. J.B. [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: ModernDrummer ] If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I have absolutely dreadful feet technique, so I can't add anything positive to this thread. somehow, though, I still groove. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I smoke lots of cigarettes and have flat feet. I suppose I have a slight heel toe motion since I have had all the pros show me how to play. I don't pay much attention anymore though. Just try to make it work with what God gave me. But somehow I manage to have pretty fast feet. I usually can keep the beater off the head. Sometimes I use a side to side action with my heels as well...which I have been taught is a viable technique. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I don't necessarily agree that one needs to be in great shape to play double bass. I guess if you were in WFD, maybe, but I think it more has to do with ergonomics and letting the weight of your leg, footboard and foot movements to the work. I was taught if you are feeling anything in your thighs you are doing something wrong...one uses the weight of the thigh/leg for the downstroke. But, I happen to feel resistance in my thighs all the time! Maybe that's why I suck cause I never listened to my teachers half the time. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream187 Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Joey Jordison from Slipknot used to run with loan mower (or whatever that thing that cut grass is called) to build the strenght in his legs... I think it worked because he's pretty damn fast now... so maybe all drummers should try this exercise? hehe... or maybe bicycle will do as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I can't take that band seriously.... running with the lawn mower...get real...that clown probably never had a real lesson on bass drum technique in his life. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream187 Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 hmm... I just want to clear a few things ouy, and I really dont want to start a fight or a debate about is slipknot good or bad... first, joey is not the clown, joey is the main drummer, the one with the emotion less mask. And about that he never got a bass drum lesson in his life, I think that once again you should get your facts strait. Joey graduated from a music school where he learned to play jazz or something like that, I dont really remember, but hes not just the usual rock drummer. He could play jazz or anything else just as well, he just decided that he likes to play metal. Also about this bass lesson, I think if you would listen to almost any song of slipknot, you would take that comment back... the guy can double-bass pretty fuckn fast trust me... (listen to the new cd, hes even faster then in the old one). So, I understand that you don't like slipknot, but dont talk about them when you really don't know them, I think most people would agree, that even if they dont like metal or slipknot, Joey is an incredible drummer (and his not just good at playing fast either). O yea, and I was joking when I said all drummer should run with the lawn mower... It just sounded funny first time I read it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Scream, I don't know SlipKnot's music but I do know Felix is kind of a 'class clown' around here so don't take his comments too seriously. We're all having fun poking at other drummers and ourselves...Someone around here said the Rolling Stones really suck...I wonder how many would disagree with that. The Stones Suck http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream187 Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Yea I'm not mad or angry or anything! thats why I started by message by saying I dont want to start a war or anything, because my english aint really good and often I sound pissed when I'm not... I just wanted to say a few things for everyones general knowledge! o yea and the rolling stones do suck by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 Geez, I thought Charlie Watts was the fastest. ok, so he's the clown with the "emotionless mask" ok, in his fastest recorded passages how many bpm's can be play what subdivision in? Can you tell me that? Then I'll let you know if he's fast or not. Does he play 90 in the shade? Thats fast. Have you listened to that speed metal band "Death" before??? That's fast Sparky. And I have a cd of a guy even faster...it's called trials of the flesh or something...have to dig it up. If you listen to death i'll listen to slipknot again...I've hear them once or twice being played in a hot topic store (slipknot)...I found them worth remarking about. But the fastest cat alive is Tim Waterson, he's so fast it'll make your nuts shrink up inside your crotch and you'll run and go pull out your stones and ac/dc records. Shit, he's so fast, he's a blur...looks like a comet flying thru the atmosphere. I highly recommend music school btw...too bad I flunked out of two...guess that means I suck huh. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream187 Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 clown with the emotion less mask lol... damn you! hmm I got no clue what is the fastest recorded passage or song he did... and I dont feel like listening to both cd looking for the fastest spot! but listen to the song slipknot - disaster piece if you want And usualy its around that speed, maybe faster in other songs I dont know. I'll try to listen to those bands u said. I know his probably not the faster drummer ever (also I dont think speed is the most important thing), but I think hes good enough to deserve some respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KikkyMonk Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 I got my mom to play quarter notes = 60 bpm on the double bass pedal... that pretty fast isn't it? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 Charlie Watts could smoke all those guys on double bass, and win the WFD contest too - he's just too cool to care. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 LOL Lee - "Charlie Watts could smoke all those guys on double bass, and win the WFD contest too - he's just too cool to care..." MAYBE he wouldn't care because he's so burnt out that he wouldn't even know there WAS a WFD, a topic, OR a conversation! I think after each gig they just put his stone- faced self back in his box (a coffin maybe?) until the next gig. In this day, I really can't picture him or Keith Richards actually walking around the planet, doing 'normal' things. I think they both actually died in the 70's, but because of drug induced brain damage, haven't been able to find their grave to crawl in! Although I have to admit, Keith certainly could be the poster boy for "Yes, you CAN survive MAJOR drug & alcohol abuse". AND, if you've noticed, Keith hasn't aged one bit since about 1975. He looked about 95 years old THEN, and he STILL looks about 95 years old! Guess he has the 'Dick Clark' syndrome. [ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: ModernDrummer ] If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream187 Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 ok about the speed in bpm of joey... I took a part of a song by slipknot (heretic anthem), slowed it down so I can count the beats. On the part of that song he was playing at around 14beat per second, so thats around 820bpm. but its probably not the fastest he can go on the double bass because on some slipknot message board they said he goes up to 16bps in some songs, which means 960bpm. So yea, I think thats pretty fuckn fast... dunno what you think... I dont know whats the wfd record either but well, It hink joey kicks ass and deserve some respect! and his not only good at playing fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 Put it in laymans terms for me. Can you figure out if he's playing sextuplets, 32's, whatever and make them relative to the downbeat and then start a metronome or drum machine at different speeds on a downbeat...when the two line up, then tell me the beats per minute. So you counted 14 hits he made in one second...hilarious...did you use your fingers or a calculator. so for example "joey's playing sextuplets on his kicks at 150 bpm's...that would be 900 beats per second...to do that for a full minute I would be mildly impressed, but just a measure here and there, any high school kid can pull that off. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream187 Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 yea I took a 3sec sample of a song where he was the only one playing so I could count the beats... but he does that for the whole song and all the song... thing is he dont do it for 1min strait because its not a wfd contest its music. just listen to one of their song, you'll see he stop for a few secs here and there but usualy its that fast all the time. I'll try to figure out what he really is playing, but its not like its easy to count that in the middle of all the noise that slipknot it you know... Yea I counted on my finger, then used a calculator to convert the 3 sec thing to 1 sec. Then multiplied par 60 to count how many time beat there was in 1 min... thats not the right way to do it? I'll try to get what you're asking exactly this way MAYBE you will be midly impressed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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