Click?

[djarrett]

Hey, Guys:

 

Seems that in some cases that I run into in Nashville, ... It is a prerequisite that I use a click track. I currently use a Tama Rhythm Watch RW100 that is fed into my monitor send in my inner ear monitor. I control the click with a pair of foot switches.

 

I hate the "clink-clonk ... clink-clonk ... clink-clonk ... etc."

 

A friend of me explained that he uses a Dr Rhythm DR-660 and sets up shakers, tambourines, or cowbell as his click ... there-by letting the click be more of an accompaniment in his ear.

 

Unfortunately, he is now on the road, and I am not sure how he programs and initiates this process.

 

Any of you guys have any idea? What do you guys think of this process? If you got to play to click ... this seems like a much better way.

 

Thoughts?

 

DJ

[felix stein]

It's funny...I work with a guitar player now and then who can't play to a click but when I pipe in a drum pattern he's fine.

 

I hate clicks also and I have a rhythm watch as well. I don't think the r-100 one though....anyways- the only reason I like a click is in it's nakedness it gives a better representation of where you are actually at. I was taught when you can't hear the click (in some patterns) you are only then truly locked in.

 

Plus, I'd rather play than program.

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by djarrett:

I hate the "clink-clonk ... clink-clonk ... clink-clonk ... etc."

 

No doubt. Nothing like an annoying click to distract you.

 

A friend of me explained that he uses a Dr Rhythm DR-660 and sets up shakers, tambourines, or cowbell as his click ... there-by letting the click be more of an accompaniment in his ear.

 

My friend's got a DR-770. I borrow this whenever possible. This is a killer little machine. If you've never used one, definately run down to the store to play with it.

 

I suck at playing with a click, but I am much better when two sounds are combined to fill up space. I've never used a tambourine, but I think that's a good idea in a lot of situations.

[DrummerCafe]

I too have a TAMA Rhythm Watch. When I play to a click, I usually keep it really low in the mix so I feel it more than have it pounding in my head. I do agree, however, that the click-click-click is not very inspiring to play to.

 

I have several friends who use the Dr. Rhythm DR-660 and seem to really like it. Being able to play to a shaker sound or quasi-drumloop is far more appealing to the ear and feel.

 

Since the DR-660 sounds are not that great, you would never be able to actually use them for recording purposes. Most of the stuff I do live is recorded, so I take a different approach with this.

 

What I do is program a perc or drum loop ... OR ... create a live loop via samples. I use this to play to ... PLUS ... it goes to tape. This way I grooving with something that very well may be used in the final mix. If it's not ... no biggie; but at least it has the potential. Often times I'll go back in the studio and overdub percussion; replacing (or adding to) the loop track I played live to.

 

All of this is fine and dandy if you want to haul your electronic gear every where you go. I just got back from a week long event in which I was playing morning, afternoon and evening for three days; we were recording the live event. It was worth it for me to bring my rack and drumKAT ... just incase I would need it.

 

So, playing at a coffee house or small club for one night just may not be worth hauling all the gear; it's overkill. The Dr. Rhythm would work perfectly in this situation; especially if you aren't recording anything. Even if you were recording, it would still work better than a boring click.

 

Just my thoughts ..........

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[Passeist]

I use an old Yamaha drum machine. I'd rather play than program, so I only use the absolute most basic features.

 

My big thing is that I use as few clicks as possible. Where another drummer might have 1/8 notes clicking away at 240 beats a minute, or 1/4 notes at 120, I'll use half notes at 60. The less notes I can get away with, the looser I can play and the more I'm relying on my own timing, using the machine as confimation rather than letting it dictate every little thing.

 

Beyond that, it's just a matter of finding the sound you find the least irritating.

[Lee Flier]

A click track is the tool of Satan. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

--Lee

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by Bartman:

I have several friends who use the Dr. Rhythm DR-660 and seem to really like it. Being able to play to a shaker sound or quasi-drumloop is far more appealing to the ear and feel.

 

A cheap little trick, something I once did before I had rich friends with high-end drum machines ... record a shaker against the click first, mix the click down, and use both as the click track. Can't do it for everything, of course, but it works well in the studio if the engineer is amiable (and you have some time).

 

Since the DR-660 sounds are not that great, you would never be able to actually use them for recording purposes. Most of the stuff I do live is recorded, so I take a different approach with this.

 

The DR-770 sounds are pretty good. For $400, I think it's a pretty good deal.

[DrummerCafe]

Originally posted by Gaddabout:

A cheap little trick, something I once did before I had rich friends with high-end drum machines ... record a shaker against the click first, mix the click down, and use both as the click track. Can't do it for everything, of course, but it works well in the studio if the engineer is amiable (and you have some time).

 

 

I first record a live percussion "bed" from time to time, but as you said, there usually isn't the time. Time is money, and the client is usually not into spending more money. When I'm in the studio it's all "down and dirty" ... one or two takes. The projects that can afford the time to arrange and experiment are a rare thing these days ... although I have had this luxuary the last few times I was in the studio.

 

Again, all of this depends on the type of music and the results you are looking for. One BIG misnomer is that if you use a click track the music is going to sound "stiff" and lack the "human feel". Well, if you are a human, everything you do is going to have a human feel. A click is nothing more than a Time Standard by which we can see/hear what 90 beats per minute should be (for example). You still have to play to this click; it doesn't mean that you will necessarily comply with it's "exactness".

 

I personally think of the click track as just another musician. I play with it ... not at it. I weave my parts around what I hear the click track doing, getting a good solid feel which allows other musicians to play to. When you listen back to the mix, turn the click off; what do you hear? I personally don't ever get the impression of "oh, I sound like I'm playing to a click" or "it sounds stiff", etc. The impression I DO get is "hey, my groove is solid and slammin'".

 

A click track is just guide and/or reference point; the Referee of Time. Just because you use it doesn't automatically mean that you are suddenly going to play "perfect" time and nail every subdivisions so that it hits "perfectly" with the click; that's not the point or the goal.

 

I personally have got to a place in my playing where I can play pretty good time and HOLD THE TEMPO. I just got back from a week long live concert recording with an audience of several thousand. The energy in the room was high, but I feel that I did a good job of maintaining the tempo and the feel. On several songs, during rehearsal, the artist pointed out to me that they wanted me to "let the tempo" move as the song developed; to not try and hold back. In some ways this sounds like carte blanche to rush, but in this case it was to allow the song to grow, creating energy with the increasing tempo. Incidentally, I wasn't using a click track, but was trying to maintain the original tempo.

 

In yet another song, I had a click in my mix, turning it off when we got to the Rubato section of the tune so the band could ritard into it. We then did a slow accerlando back to the original tempo. I had the metronome still going with only a flashing light, which I used as a reference to make sure that the band got back to the original tempo. I wasn't listening to the click during all of this, but relied on my own sense of timing. The metronome was just a visual confirmation. Needless to say, I felt really great when I nailed the original tempo ... the little flashing lights seeming to shout at me, "You the man, you the man!" LOL http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

Just for the record, the metronome does have another phrase that I it shouts at me from time to time. It sounds something like "You suck, you suck!" ... but I could be wrong. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

A metronome or click track doesn't lie. If you use it as a guide and not a dictator you'll have NO problem keeping a "human feel". It's not "satan" unless you WANT it to be. It's your friend and is there to help you. Keeping it down in your mix will allow you to stray from it when you need to or want to ... but is still there for reference when neeeded.

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Bartman:

I personally think of the click track as just another musician.

 

But no musician is going to play an entire song all the way through at exactly 90 beats per minute, and thank God for that.

 

When you listen back to the mix, turn the click off; what do you hear? I personally don't ever get the impression of "oh, I sound like I'm playing to a click" or "it sounds stiff", etc.

 

I do. I can usually tell when I listen to a record if it is has been played to a click or drum machine, and USUALLY it bugs the hell out of me Occasionally a song will happen to work that way because the song really does dictate that you keep strictly to the tempo, but more times than not it drives me crazy. Most records that I love have subtle variations in the tempo and you can't program them into a machine in advance - the musicians are just feeling it. Sure, lots of drummers can play to a click and still sound "human", and not nail every subdivision in perfect time - but they are still locked into the same tempo for either the whole song or until the click is programmed to change. Even if you're just using it for a "reference" and not really listening to it, in order for it to work as a reference you still can't vary from it by much or you'll get way off it. IMO, this sucks.

 

Actually our drummer and I were just talking about this yesterday, because we recorded some drum tracks and I kept teasing him by turning on a click track, which he considers an arcane form of torture. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Of course he knows I hate them too so we could have a good laugh about it, but it got us off on a discussion of the whole click track thing in general. For example he said, "Listen to 'Honky Tonk Women' and compare the tempo at the beginning to where it is at the end. And that groove just slams!" And it's true.

 

The thing is, having been a staff engineer at a commercial studio in L.A. during the early to mid 80's, I saw the beginning of this trend. Drummers (and producers) didn't used to think of "perfect tempo" as being the Holy Grail until drum machines came along and it became a challenge to play as "perfectly" as the machine. Yeah there were some drummers who didn't go for that, but a lot of them took it as a professional challenge, which was noble of them (and in some cases done in the realization that they'd be out of a gig if they didn't do it), but I don't think it's done music any good.

 

Sure, if a drummer's time is that bad then they need to work on it, and anybody can benefit from practicing to a metronome. But the truth is: if you play an actual track to a click then the click IS dictating the tempo, period. There is no way it can't. If you really wanted to use it as a "reference only" then you'd play the click for a few bars (like before you start rolling tape) just to get the tempo in your head and then shut it off. And everybody be damned if you don't stay strictly to that tempo.

 

--Lee

 

 

This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 10-22-2001 at 11:45 AM

[oremug]

Playing to a click-clock is always a pain in the ass, a little trick I always used was to set the click a little faster in the mix so I would always stay behind it, nothing worst than getting ahead of it, but I think having shakers to hear instead is a great idea.

[felix stein]

huh?

 

I wish I had that box that came out a few years ago called the "rushin draggin"...I wonder what happened to those things.

 

"Time flys when you are having fun"....

[DrummerCafe]

Well Lee ... we disagree again; but that's okay.

 

I personally can't stand the time moving all over the place. If it happens naturally and feels good, that's one thing. Listening to classical music is a great example of just that. Human expression moves.

 

Just because someone uses a click doesn't mean that it's not going to sound human. I could say that those who don't like playing to a click only feel that that way because they CAN'T stay with the click. For me to make a blanket statement like that would be wrong because their are plenty of players who can play very well with a click and yet prefer not to. The same goes for those who use a click; it doesn't automatically mean that it's going to sound mechanical.

 

Incidentally, when I said that the metronome could be used as a reference, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's clicking all the time. One could just use visual confirmation (flashing lights) from the metronome or possibly turn it on once in awhile just to check. Another use for the click track would be to use it in rehearsals only; thus developing a strong sense for what the parts should feel like without the adrenalin rush.

 

Another positive for using the click is due to today's method of recording. It's great to record the entire band all at once, but if you can't, having a click to help keep a constant tempo makes it much easier to layer all the parts. It's tough enough to phrase one's part with the other parts already on tape, let alone the thought of having to guess where the tempo is going to go from measure to measure. In today's music business (film, radio, television, etc.) there is a demand for consistancy in order for there to be flexibility.

 

It's not about making sure that every note is perfectly aligned with the click track; the click won't be in the final mix. The click track is like an orchestra conductor, giving direction and providing basis for everyone to play together.

 

I play plenty of sessions in which the click is programmed to speed up and slow done at given points in the song. I also do a lot of sessions that don't use a click or loop. When you are working with great musicians, it's easy to put together. It's the projects with weak players that I thank God over and over for having a click track available.

 

One more thing: if only the drummer is hearing the click, and the rest of the band is following the drummer, the music should flow naturally.

 

As the drummer, I'm driving this bus, not the metronome. Either get onboard or you'll be left behind.

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[sidereal]

It took some time, but I have no problems with using a click now. I've done it live and in the studio (live is a bit nerdy, but the only option when there's sequencing). It's a mindset for me. I have pretty spot on time, so I keep the click fairly low and when I can't hear it and I'm not aware of it, I know I'm on the right track (hey! a pun!). It's when I hear it and become aware of it that I know I'm off. I think some drummers freak out about the click and become too conscious of it. Don't think about it and just groove.

 

btw, if you have a patient engineer... another option is to have the bass player record to a click and then track the drums to the bass. Doesn't always work but it can result in a juicy performance when it does. The engineer can always re-track the bass later.

[mrthirsty]

I've been playing to clicks for a long time since the advent of using sequencers became popular(primarily for monetary reasons, since not many people can pay a 7 piece band anymore). I've never had a problem playing with one and find that the advatages do on the average outweigh the disadvantages. The biggest plus I find it can solve is just simply providing an objective starting tempo for a song, sometimes time disagreements can lead to some pretty heated talk between sets or worse on the stage(which we can all do without), if a click solves that problem, cool. On the disadvatage side if I have to play with a click but also have to work with a player(or players) with bad time I find the feel this generates is so bad, stiff, and lifeless it is better to just turn it off, there is nothing worse than feeling like your being pulled in 2 or 3 different directions. Given the choice I now prefer playing with drum machine patterns rather than a click and playing without a click live unless I have to(using sequencers), playing with people that have a good sense of and understanding of time is always more fun than having to compensate for other musicians who just never put the effort into learning or developing it.

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by sidereal:

I've done it live and in the studio (live is a bit nerdy, but the only option when there's sequencing).

 

I've been encouraged before to go to some of the cattle calls for the big label tours, but I don't because I'd be terrified if I actually got the job. I can't imagine playing for five or more acts -- all sequenced to the note -- every night. What a task! I suppose three weeks of cramming nails the show before you hit the road, but I do not envy any drummer that does that. Yikes! That's like a bad movie, "Night of the Never-ending Click Track."

[Lee Flier]

Bart,

 

I didn't use the word "mechanical" anywhere, I don't believe that using a click necessarily makes a drummer sound stiff and mechanical. And I acknowledged that for certain songs it really does work to have the tempo be totally consistent.

 

However, as you say, there are a lot of drummers (and other musicians) who CAN play to a click just fine but would rather not. And what bothers me is that playing to a click has become something of a Holy Grail. If you already have good time and good feel, it doesn't help anything, and it CAN hurt things if the song would really benefit from speeding up or slowing down slightly in different sections. As I said, I can usually tell when something has been cut to a click and it drives me crazy - not because it necessarily sounds "mechanical" but because I LIKE some variations in tempo. Is that so hard to understand? I don't mean I like it to be all over the place, I mean that it WORKS for the song to vary in tempo in a way that the listener would probably not notice.

 

The main reasons I think the click has become so prevalent is 1) engineers get tired of dealing with drummers who have bad time, and 2) in a lot of today's music the tempo MUST be consistent because the engineer and producer are going to do a bunch of cutting and pasting and looping in order to complete the song, and the parts won't fit if they're not exactly the same tempo (although that is changing with stuff like Beat Detective out there now). IMO this is compromising the music in order to make things convenient for the engineer, and as an engineer I think that's BS.

 

There is no excuse for a drummer with really bad time and neither is there any excuse for sacrificing musicality for technical convenience. I don't put duct tape all over drums when I record them just so I don't have to deal with resonances. I don't make a great drummer play to a click track just so it's convenient for me to edit. If I'm working with a really good drummer, which I usually do, all that stuff should be MY problem, not his. My job is to make sure the drummer has all the expressive freedom he wants and all the fun he can have. If he actually REQUESTS to have a click because he thinks it will be better for the particular song, I'll use it. Otherwise the notion doesn't even come up - and I wouldn't run out of fingers counting the times when a click has been the appropriate thing for a session I've done. I WOULD run out of fingers counting the times when a click has been used (at the request of a producer) where it would have been a lot better without it.

 

--Lee

 

 

 

This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 10-23-2001 at 11:33 AM

[Jazzman]

Never used a click, never will, 34 years and counting, 20 of it playing at gigs.

 

If you can't control the group, or keep time in a band, tuck your tail between your legs, go home, and practice some more. I used to practice 10 hrs/day on weekends, every weekend, and at least 4 hrs/day on weekdays, always practiced, of course if I was not playing out.

 

If band players can't get it together and constantly push the drummer, tell them to use a click track instead, at home! If they can't, they need to hang up their ax, keys or whatever. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif I've heard them all, push or drag the drummer. Not everyone is out of step in the band, and it will be quite obvious who's out of line. BTW, what did drummers have before drum machines, or click tracks!!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif I used to play album after album and imitate all of the drummers in Jazz until I got it right. No excuse.

 

I do understand that there are certain exceptions to this as DJ stated in this thread, but having to do this at a normal gig seems like more than just a crutch, don't ya think?

 

I sometimes record with a drum machine for spicing up my own compositions in the studio. Did you ever hear a drummer that can't play along with a drum machine? I have, unbelievable! It hurts my ears!!!

 

Don't get me wrong, it is important to be on time all of the time, and if the gig requires you to use a click track, a drum machine or drum module, that is different, but I would still ask WHY? If it is to improve yourself at home or at a practice session, that's great. But if I saw a drummer set up with another time piece, I would ask the drummer to go home, and use the time piece instead......... it's cheaper!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ... OK.......Just kidding.

 

I believe that a reason that some people can't play with a click only, other than a drummer,is because the players need full measures of drumming to relate to time and space of the measure and the pulse of the rhythm for the song. Everyone in the band fills in what the drummer doesn't provide, that gives body and feeling to the song.

 

I'm old fashioned I guess, I think the drummer needs to be the real timepiece.

 

These are my thoughts of course, and this is a pet peave of mine when I hear players out of sink with each other, screwing up a cover song. It's like scratching nails on a blackboard.

 

Peace..........and this my opinion only.

 

Jazzman http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif

 

This message has been edited by Jazzman on 10-24-2001 at 08:53 PM

[tachonene]

im sure you mean pros...right?

[djarrett]

Boy, can't ask a simple question!

 

Clicks are just a necessary tool in some instances. Some folks just require it ... especially in large act concerts where there are tracks involved in the live setting.

 

I really do not think it lessens ones talent to say that you use a click.

 

Some folks hate them ... because they just cannot stay with one. My biggest problem is holding back the other folks in the band. I find it comforting that if someone challenges my tempo, that I can just unplug the headphone jack and say "read it and weep!"

 

It usually shuts folks up real quick!

 

Now, please go back to my original question!

 

Thanks,

DJ

[Martin O]

A friend of mine found the best click for him to be samples of a voice saying "one-two-three-four" (on a roland td-80 drum sound module).

 

I prefer beeps to the usual metronome click. The main thing (for me) is that the click has to stick out, not blend in. And the 'one' has to be easily distinguishable from 'two-three-four'. But this is all from a standpoint of recording - not playing live.

[DrummerCafe]

Originally posted by Martin O:

A friend of mine found the best click for him to be samples of a voice saying "one-two-three-four" (on a roland td-80 drum sound module).

 

The problem with using a vocal sample for a click is that it's VERY difficult to make out the ictus of the beat. For recording I would think this would be VERY bad as well as not very musically inspiring; not to mention annoying having someone counting in your ear like you are beginner band student.

 

I can tolerate clicks, but a drum loop, percussion loop or MIDI groove sure makes for a more pleasant performance experience. A real plus for doing this is that many producers will use loops for writing purposes, but then have a drummer either come in and replace the loop with live drums OR play with loop to create a dual drum/percussion groove.

[djarrett]

I originally asked:

"A friend of mine explained that he uses a Dr Rhythm DR-660 and sets up shakers, tambourines, or cowbell as his click ... there-by letting the click be more of an accompaniment in his ear.

 

Unfortunately, he is now on the road, and I am not sure how he programs and initiates this process.

 

Any of you guys have any idea? What do you guys think of this process? If you got to play to click ... this seems like a much better way.

 

Thoughts?"

 

SSSOOOO?

 

DJ

[DrummerCafe]

Originally posted by djarrett:

I originally asked:

"A friend of mine explained that he uses a Dr Rhythm DR-660 and sets up shakers, tambourines, or cowbell as his click ... there-by letting the click be more of an accompaniment in his ear.

 

Unfortunately, he is now on the road, and I am not sure how he programs and initiates this process. Any of you guys have any idea? What do you guys think of this process? If you got to play to click ... this seems like a much better way.

 

I thought I answered your questions in my original post. Don't know about anyone else. I'm all for using sounds other than a click FOR the click. The Roland is basically a simple drum machine which you would program. I think it's more than just applying a particular sound (like a cowbell) on the down beats, and another sound (like a shaker) on the up beats. I think you can create patterns.

 

That's all I know.

[felix stein]

Are boss manuals that bad? Or don't you have a manual dj.

 

With my yamadog Ry20 I just quantize the stuff in different bars and put it in song form. Then hit the loop function.

 

It's easy to layer with the yamaha. Just punch in your quarter note cowbell click or whatever and then shift the quantize value to 4's or 16th and tap in your shaker part.

 

My buddy's got the boss...we don't talk about it though...it should all be in the manual.

It's tedious

[djarrett]

Originally posted by Bartman:

 

I thought I answered your questions in my original post. Don't know about anyone else. I'm all for using sounds other than a click FOR the click. The Roland is basically a simple drum machine which you would program. I think it's more than just applying a particular sound (like a cowbell) on the down beats, and another sound (like a shaker) on the up beats. I think you can create patterns.

 

That's all I know.

 

Hey, Bart:

You actually did ... but I need to clarify what I am asking. Can you use this as a "live" click that is fed through the PA (ala playing to a sequencer) or is there a better unit to use in this manner. Bart, you mentioned that you did not like the sounds of this unit. Would you suggest a SR-16?

 

OR

 

Do you think in-ear feed click is the only acceptable way to go?

 

Thanks and sorry for the confusion.

DJ

[felix stein]

I'm not Bartman, but I would not get an SR-16...they are a pain to program. I don't care for the sound of them either.

 

I suppose if your band wanted to hear the sequenced rhythm parts, yah, then play them thru the pa...but think I would rather have headphones.

 

You would have to have some serious programming/sequencing quantized and put into "song" form to make it sound hip IMHO if it was going thru the pa.

 

If your going to buy one, get a yamaha...I think the tones are better than the boss' and alesis'.

And I would also look for one that you could mount on a stand or that has a foot swith...they all or should have midi in and outs...but I have never started a loop I programmed from a keyboard or midi pedal...the midi stuff is deep. So find a midi guru and I think you will get closer.

[DrummerCafe]

Originally posted by djarrett:

You actually did ... but I need to clarify what I am asking. Can you use this as a "live" click that is fed through the PA (ala playing to a sequencer) or is there a better unit to use in this manner. Bart, you mentioned that you did not like the sounds of this unit. Would you suggest a SR-16? OR Do you think in-ear feed click is the only acceptable way to go?

 

 

AH ... NOW I understand! LOL

 

Supposedly the BOSS DR-550MKII is a nice unit with 16-bit quality sounds and can handle odd time signatures, etc. It has less than 100 sounds and only has a MIDI IN ... I believe. But could work with what you are wanting to use it for.

 

Without hearing the sounds, I don't know if it's good enough to be played out over a PA; but definitely good enough as a click track. I would think that this unit is MUCH better than an old SR-16.

 

Personally, I think in-ear click/loop/sequence is the ONLY way to go. When I play live, I always have a feed of the loop or sequence going to in-ear monitors or headphones; I don't trust the PA, sound man or monitor board. In fact, I pretty much DEMAND that I operate the click or sequence, and that I get a raw feed to my headphones directly from it. I make sure that the sound man doesn't send a feed back to me (obviously) because it would create phase cancellation. The great thing about this is if I'm having problems, I can fix it because it's all right there with me.

 

I've had nightmares like the monitor mix from the house sound is set-up on a matrix so that it's POST FADE!!!!!! So as the sound man adjusts the volume of the percussion loop ... he's also adjusting the level in my monitor! Try and groove to something you can't hear! It's not a pretty site. God has heard many a prayer from me during times like this ... and has kept me on track. I have to just rely on feel and focus really hard to not rush or drag.

 

If you want a BOSS DR-550MKII cheap, I see them on eBay all the time. Retail on the unit is $295, and there are some used ones out there for $50-100. The non-used units go for a little more than that. They all usually have manuals with them as well.

 

If you were really going to get serious with this, and you had the money, and had the room in your set-up, and the venue merits the gear, I would invest in a drumKAT and a couple of sound modules. Because of the KAT's complexities and thoroughness, there's basically nothing you can't do. You can allow it to generate your sequence and use ANY sounds that you have access to. I've never been a fan of purchasing a drum machine if I'm limited to the internal sounds and can not upgrade. Right now I use several drum modules and my AKAI S6000 sampler with my drumKAT. I can sequence on the fly, tap tempo, adjust the tempo in Real Time for my sequence.

 

If you are playing at a small club or coffee house, then this set-up probably isn't the thing to take ..... the drum machine would work. But if you've got room for a small rack and the drumKAT, it's the way to go and is EXTREMELY versatile. I'm so glad that I purchased the KAT and not get into the whole V-Drum thing. With the KAT I can add it to my acoustic drum set-up or percussion set-up ... OR ... it can stand on it's own as my primary drum/percussion kit. Sure it doesn't look like a full set of drums like the V-drums, but to each his own.

 

I've gone WAY over the top with this post sorry DJ! LOL

 

I'm assuming that the DR-660 is the latest version of the drum machine I'm familar with. I don't know what it's features are, but I would guess that it would work great.

[djarrett]

Thanks Guys!

That is the feed back I was looking for!

 

Now, ... if we could all figure out how to work and sleep at the same time!

 

Thanks,

DJ