Stuthumper Posted September 27, 2001 Share Posted September 27, 2001 man i just had a lesson a college today and i had the worst teacher ever,he was awful i surprised he got the job,he pressured his students to much,well he expected to get something we just learnt right the first time and he would stand there and complain if we didn't get it right, and say this is how u do it! i mean yeah correct ur students but give them time to practice it and don't pester them everytime they do it. then he complained cos the gap between my sticks when i did a flam wasn't far enough apart! and then he said play exactly like him,i mean thats completly wrong u should never teach a student how exactly to play everyone has a different technique,or style etc. but telling some one to copy u is wrong. i'm so glad my proper teacher is kool and not a ass like that prick! stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhubley Posted September 27, 2001 Share Posted September 27, 2001 Stu, I know what you mean. There are many, MANY teachers out there who subscribe to the thought of 'militant teaching'. This is VERY common in music, especially in drumcorps, and even rather common in orchestral, percussion and other school and professional ensembles. I studied at a small university in TX for 2 years. I wanted to focus more on drumset, but did not want that 'militant' style of teaching(which is why i went to MI, rather than transfer to UNT, call me crazy). That style of teaching simply does not work for me, and I think it only works for a small number of musicians(drumcorp guys seem to do ok with it). These teachers should realize that playing an instrument is an artform, NOT a sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted September 27, 2001 Share Posted September 27, 2001 When I started out at age 13 I got a teacher who was a complete Nazi. He took all the joy out of learning. Because of him I stopped taking lessons after about 3 months and didn't take them again until about a year ago. (oh, the bad habit's I'd learned in that time!) The truth though, is that a heavy hand (no pun intended) is often needed to get young students to learn properly and to practice. Discipline is important, as is learning correct technique. But the balance is to do it with professionalism, respect and in a way that inspires the student to learn without hating the instrument. When searching for a teacher, it's not unfair to ask him or her to give you phone numbers of a couple other students. Call them and ask what the teaching style is and then decide if the personality is right for what you want to achieve. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tachonene Posted September 28, 2001 Share Posted September 28, 2001 i live in new york city and i need a teacher, im gonna get a vdrum set on saturday, if somebody is available just tell me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted September 28, 2001 Share Posted September 28, 2001 man, there are so many incredible drummers in NYC...maybe check out drummer's collective. STU...just quit and look for another teacher. I'm sorry, but life is too short, enjoy playing, practicing. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted September 28, 2001 Share Posted September 28, 2001 Another place to find a teacher in NYC is to visit the Drum Ring International ; I know of several members that live in NYC and teach. Just have a look at our Member List and pick a few to contact. Also, it sounds like Stu is in a school situation; am I right? If so, he can't just up and quit ... unless he doesn't want to be in the band program. Tried to find someone to talk to regarding this teacher and see if you can get something done about it. Chances are that this drum teacher was taught the same way that he teaches ... OR ... he is new and doesn't feel very confident, so talks down to the students to make himself feel better (superior). I've taught many young people in my day and it's not easy. It's seems like I was spending half my time dealing with arrogant attitudes from students that thought THEY were superior than me! Oh well, I'll stop ... this could be an entire thread on it's own. ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted September 28, 2001 Share Posted September 28, 2001 LOL, Bartman's right, the teacher subject COULD be it's own thread. And I'm really kinda curious, why it seems to be a topic that's more or less avoided. Especially on this forum where there are a lot of experienced and knowledgeable people. I dunno, perhaps the subject is too 'touchy' for some folks? Stu, man reading about your experience with that particular teacher, it really made me (once again) deeply appreciate the teacher I had for about 12 or 13 years as a kid. No doubt, he was a taskmaster. But he LOVED his students. NO! NOT like THAT, ya pervert! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif In fact, looking back now, my opinion is that he wouldn't even accept a student UNLESS HE felt he could have that LOVING relationship with them. 'Cause I know he turned down a LOT of prospective students. And he was brutally honest with folks. "Sorry, Mr. Smith. But honestly, your little Edgar has no talent." That kinda stuff. I think Bill (Helmcke, pronounced 'Helm-Key') only wanted to teach those that 'had the gift', or some natural tendency toward music, and that he knew had the potential to do something with their music beyond just strumming a guitar in their bedrooms. I guess he just got a 'feel' that they'd actually practice and work on their instrument. I DO remember him saying stuff to me like "You know, you want to make sure you're practicing consistently and doing your best. Your parents have invested a lot in equipment and lessons 'cause they love you." Stuff like that. Inspire ya, and also make ya feel a little guilty if ya DIDN'T work as hard as you should, LOL. I can tell you, he had NO lack of students. And if one of his students (ranging from about 4 yrs. old to 'mature adults', LOL) was playing a gig somewhere (within reason), he'd show up to hear how they were doing. I know he'd driven over 100 miles round trip to check us out. Great guy. I miss him. But IMHO, finding a good teacher is hard. BEING a good teacher is very hard. 'Cause it's NOT JUST being a good or great musician. It's NOT just having the chops. Teaching ANY subject, IMHO, requires a LOT more than just having the knowledge or ability yourself. Though, judging the personalities of SOME teachers I've observed and met, THEY sometimes think that's all it takes. And that's is strictly up to the student to make sure the student learns. Just my opinion, of course, but I deeply disagree. I think teaching is a whole set of skills COMPLETELY separate and disparate from the subject matter that's being taught. I think a teacher has to have the 'right stuff' to teach. The personality for it. The same 'knack' that's required to have proficiency on your respective instrument(s). It's different. You have to have "people skills", and the RIGHT "people skills", to teach well and effectively. And have your students say "I LOVE my teacher". That's emotional, that's tough, and it's RARE. There's just certain personality traits that a great teacher has to have. Patience of course, as Bart mentioned, is one of them. The TEACHER has to have the personality to deal with the varied personalities they're going to encounter. LOL, as any of you that've ever lost patience with someone know, this is NOT an easy thing to do! PARENTS have to have this SAME set of skills. Sadly, many, many, many do NOT! And ya can look at a kid, and KNOW that kid is gonna grow up to be a rat, 'cause his parents are rats! Sad but true, as the song goes. I think by nature, a great teacher HAS to be a 'people person'. Someone that seems to be at ease and comfortable around people they don't know well. 'Cause most often, the teacher is basically going to be just a fringe character in the students life. Meaning, that the teacher typically only sees the student once or twice a week, for maybe a half hour or an hour, and thus has only a brief period within which to learn about the student's NEEDS as well as DESIRES, and make a positive impact in that direction. And again, IMHO, a great teacher has to know the subject matter SO well, that they can convey it simply and easily to another, often much younger, person. Ya can't just say "Ya gotta play it with FEELING". Ya MIGHT have to get them to understand, to TEACH them, what FEELING IS! And if you can't do those sorts of things, can't communicate in this manner with people of varied ages, backgrounds and personalities, being the "Magna Cum Laude" from the Music Dept. at Berkeley and having 14 degrees in music ISN'T gonna matter. Sure, YOU may know it, and YOU may be able to play classical, jazz, swing and speed metal at the SAME time on 3 different instruments, but you'll never TEACH others to do it well. Admittedly, I've never been a music teacher. Why? 'Cause to be honest, I'm not good enough to teach. I, as painfully honest as I can be, don't think I have what it takes to be a great teacher. I can PLAY. But as I said, teaching someone else to do that, and MORE importantly, to explore their OWN personality, style and limits, I feel is just beyond my capabilities. And I DON'T teach BECAUSE I can admit that to others, and to myself. I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who ARE great teachers, who teach well. Unfortunately, at least in this area, about every sixth musician THINKS they're a teacher. And have students. The most depressing thing is, there's perhaps only a couple of them that CAN teach. That have what takes, beyond the attitude of "Hey, I'm a GOOD drummer (or guitarist, etc.), so I can teach!" No... you can't. Sorry. What ya SHOULD do is be honest enough with yourself about it, and do the RIGHT thing by your students and send them to those couple who CAN teach. THAT'S what ya SHOULD do. Sadly, many folks just see it as an extra source of income, and to be blunt, just don't 'get it'. Unfortunate for them, and MORE importantly, unfortunate for their 'students'. Well, just my thoughts about it. My apologies in advance if I offended anyone reading this, as that's not my intention. J.B. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuthumper Posted September 28, 2001 Author Share Posted September 28, 2001 hey guys thanx for the replys, well this guy is my teacher at college so i can't quit but i complained about him to the course leader but they bum love each other so i don't think its gonna help,i just might not bother going to him. i have the best teacher out of college though hes like the pefect teacher,hes been pro,hes played with people such as brian may from queen etc,yeah hes kool,i wish he was my college teacher. yeah if u guys have any tips on giving lesson cos i myself am thinking of teaching. and just need some pointers! obvisously i'm not gonna be anything like my college teacher cos hes a dick.i honestly don't think he knows what hes talking about,cos my teacher says i have pefect technique,and posture and that.and i met steve smith once at a drum clinic and he was astounded by how good i was for how i have been playing (about 3 1/2 years) but this college teacher said i couldn't even hold sticks properly!!!!!! oh well,i'm glad hes not my proper teacher thanx for the replys guys stu o i'm not gonna be teaching anytime soon,i will start in about 5 years time once i've finished uni and college. This message has been edited by Stu(thumper) on 09-28-2001 at 03:00 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted September 28, 2001 Share Posted September 28, 2001 Stu, I would seriously consider finding another college to attend. If you are majoring in music, you need to find a school that has the right teacher for you. It's just like an athlete searching for that perfect coach. Also, I would go and talk to the Music Department Head and discuss your concerns. If he/she won't listen or just shrugs it off ... go to the Fine Arts Dean. Whether you are wrong or right about your instructor, you need to be able to convey your feelings in a healthy manner. Have you talked to the instructor at all? I would if you haven't. Also, why did you go to that school? Originally posted by ModernDrummer: LOL, Bartman's right, the teacher subject COULD be it's own thread. And I'm really kinda curious, why it seems to be a topic that's more or less avoided. Especially on this forum where there are a lot of experienced and knowledgeable people. I dunno, perhaps the subject is too 'touchy' for some folks? Well, I don't know if you remember or not, but there was a lot said regarding this topic in the past. I was accused of having a "know it all" or "thinking I was better than everyone else" attitude. I just keep my mouth shut as much as possible these days. There were also comments made like "those that can't play ... teach" which total B.S. in my opinion. Whether the person(s) making those comments just meant it jokingly or not, that attitude does exist in the world ... and dare I say on this Drum Forum. To me the whole "professional" term arguments we had are just a spin off of all of this. So I don't bring stuff up anymore. I just answer instructional type questions and hide in the shadows. I'm passionate about music, my career and my teaching practice (which by the way, I'm no longer teaching privately ... just gigging & sessions). ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuthumper Posted September 28, 2001 Author Share Posted September 28, 2001 i will speak to the head of music. yeah i went to this college because it was recommended by a friend,but as i am disapointed with the teacher and the course,i am goin to a specialist drum college for 4 years,which should be kool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 Whoa, guys! Bart, you holdin' out on us? Here at MPc Drum Talk ... if we get knocked down by someone ... we need to help each other get ourselves up, ... dust ourselves off, ... and start all over again!! No one here is any better than anyone else. There are those that may have more experience (life's experience and playing experience) to draw from, but not a holier than thou attitude. Bart, you need to speak your mind ... even if it rubs some wrong ... simply because they do not want to see or hear the truth. Re: Teachers. Let me tell you. Typically the great players become great teachers. Whether or not privately or in clinic. My college teacher, Jim Hall, was the coolest as they come. (taught the likes of Gregg Bissonette and Rick Latham!!). Stu, you need to find out what you want to do. Research the school and teacher more thoroughly. I have met the types like your teacher. Sounds like he likes to belittle confident players right off the bat ... to try and knock you down a rung or two on your confidence ladder. This is just this teachers way of making himself feel better about him. Since you are already enrolled and have started school, perhaps you should kill him with kindness. Just do not let his belittling rattle you. Stand strong and just smoke each of your lessons. Give him no reason to have negative comments! Who knows, you may end up teaching him a thing or two!! Just my thoughts, Peace always. DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 Oooooo, told ya. Touchy subject. Sorry DJ, I disagree. I don't remember the likes of Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, Carl Palmer, Neil Peart, Carter Beauford, Bill Bruford, Alan White becoming drum teachers. I'm not, of course, speaking of doing a video or two. I'm talking about drum TEACHERS. So while I honestly respect your opinion, I disagree with it. I personally do NOT think the great drummers become the great teachers. Bart - My comments above were absolutely NOT a personal attack on you, my drumming brother. Even though I'm aware that you're a drum teacher. It's just MY perspective on what *I* think it takes to be a good teacher. NOT a 'mentor', but a TEACHER. That doesn't mean I'm RIGHT, as I think there's no right or wrong involved in it. Just what *I* think. So please, please, please, don't take it as a veiled slight of Bartman. I think it's O.K. to disagree, or see things from different perspectives. And if we disagree on one thing, doesn't mean we disagree on everything. I hope you don't think so, as well. You and I can viciously oppose one another on one topic, and agree wholeheartedly on another. Nature of the beast, IMHO. Hope this helps clear things up. J.B. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 ModernDrummer, I never thought that. I was referring to past discussions that this Forum has had. You're fine ... my feelers are damaged, and if they were, it's my problem. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 Whew, thanks brother. It was giving me some concern. You know, since I believe teaching is, in and of itself, a gift, and very hard to do well, maybe I should change that old adage to "And those who can't teach, PLAY!" http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_dup1 Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 Bartman, I have to agree with DJ about not holding back. I use to only read and participate in Roger's/ GM forum. Because, I just love recording. An on-going expense! I started hacking with the drums about a year ago. Never with rudiments or any sort of training. If I was lucky once a week I would spend 1/2 hour or so. And, my drumming sounded like it. I knew I was lacking and that's when I came to drum forum. Started reading posts from felix, MD, DJ, Rhubley and yourself about practice and technique. I don't post much, because I mainly read everybody else's questions and responses. If I have something to add, I do. But I'm quite inexperienced and don't feel that I have a better answer than the responses I read. But you guys were the ones that gave me answers to my posts on rudiments and helped me out a lot with books and videos to study. I have the stick control book and a Kenny Aronoff video set. I've done lots with the stick control book but have not had time for the video yet. But my point is my drumming IMHO has dramatically improved. One of my best friends is one of those guys who tells it like it is. He said that I've come a long way with my drumming. He's a guitarist but has a real love for the drums as well. I only grew as a drummer because of info, direction and encouragement from you and others on this forum. I don't have a set time for practice. Squeeze it in when I can. I've been getting about an hour a night on stick control. Wish I could have time for a real teacher, but I can't see that happening yet. Again, I appreciate all the advice and help from you and this forum. Sorry for the long winded response. Keep up the straight forward answers. I think it's what most people appreciate, even though they may not admit it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif I've typed so much I won't be able to practice till my fingers gain back some strength...LOL Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 Frozen...Don't listen to me! I can't play a lick! Well, Bartman is theeeeeee best...now doubt about it. I wish I could have a few lessons from him (then he could say I took lessons from him tee hee hee hee) Most teachers I have had were good players...there were a few that sucked though. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_dup1 Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 Well, I don't know if you can play, but it sure sounds like you can. Everytime I read your posts of what you were doing with the Swiss things and Hertas etc. makes me think I have a very long way to go. But, so far it's been fun. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted October 1, 2001 Share Posted October 1, 2001 Hey, MD: We can agree to disagree on this subject. I feel that a teacher is a teacher. (even if he only does videos) When another drummer learns something from another drummer ... that makes that person ... a teacher. I never took a personal lesson with Jim Chapin, but I learned more about independence from him .... tha I ever learned from a personal lesson. Video lessons are great for me ... because if I do not undertand something, ... I just rewind the tape! (and I do a lot of rewinding!) Just my thoughts. DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.