a SCARY, but not unrealistic thought......

[rlhubley]

If this becomes an all out war(which seems likely) there is a definite possibility of a draft. That is rather spooky. What are your thoughts on this? I know for me I'd wait as long as possible and just before drafted, i'd enlist and try to go in the army band. Then i'd become the next Steve Gadd!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Well, that would be the dream that would get me through!!

[DerekDrums]

I don't know what I'd do. I'm 16 next month, so that means if this becomes a massive war, I'd have a strong chance of getting drafted. Do you know if they have guidlines on drafting? If I remember, I think they wouldn't draft people going in to college, and things like that. I think that guidelines are put into effect once draft is approved, but since so many Americans are going into college, I wonder if they'd draft all? That really worries me...

 

Derek

 

http://www.mp3.com/DustinDerek

[rlhubley]

well, you wouldn't really need to worry for a few years. The draft starts with men whose 20th birthday falls in the same year as the start of the war, then if needed followed by21(me!), 22, 23, 24, and 25. I think anything below 20 would have to enlist and would have to be over 18.

They say this war could actually last up to 10 years. So, if this becomes a large-scale effort, worry in 3 0r 4 years, until then, worry about everyone else!

[BruBoz]

Before you start worrying about the draft, realize that this is a different kind of war.

 

It's not like WWII where we were fighting extremely large armies organized by powerful nations. We're fighting a relatively small number of terrorists. The US has the biggest army in the world already, we shouldn't need any more men than we already have (almost 2 million counting the reserves).

 

Of course, I can't predict the future and I have no idea where all of this is going to lead, but I'm not convinced this is World War III....yet.

[DrummerCafe]

I wish I was younger so that I would at least be eligible to enlist if they needed more men. Back in 1982, I auditioned for the Air Force Band (Scott Air Force Base in St. Louis), but rather than wait for a position to open up, I went off to college instead.

 

Nowadays ... I'd want them to put me on the FRONTLINES!!! I'm ready to go, but until they get desperate enough to take 37 year old like myself, I'll just have to do my part right where I'm at.

 

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[tachonene]

i thought war was something horrible and traumatic......and that ruin people lifes...why somebody would want to go to war? im a pacifist what can i do hehe

[DrummerCafe]

I don't want to go to war. I want to defend my country and preserve our freedom. To me, that's worth fighting for ... if it comes down to that. After this past week, it's clear (to me at least) that it has come to that.

If anyone thinks that this is just all going to go away, you are sadly mistaken. Words are great for a season; sometimes action needs to be taken when words no longer work.

[felix stein]

I could do a lot more for the war effort than shooting someone or getting killed myself. Especially with my CAD ability and manufacturing expertise.

 

Oh, it's all so horrible. From the news last night, it looked like every pakistani had an Ak-47 on their shoulder. It is like a nightmare, those people burning our flag in rage. I pray all the time now.

[ModernDrummer]

rlhubley, et. al.

 

You know what I LIKE about reading this post? The commments like:

 

"I know for me I'd wait as long as possible and just before drafted, i'd enlist and try to go in the army band."

 

"I don't know what I'd do...That really worries me...", "but I'm not convinced this is World War III....yet."

 

"Nowadays ... I'd want them to put me on the FRONTLINES!!! I'm ready to go, but until they get desperate enough to take 37 year old like myself, I'll just have to do my part right where I'm at."

 

"i thought war was something horrible and traumatic......and that ruin people lifes...why somebody would want to go to war? im a pacifist what can i do hehe"

 

"I don't want to go to war. I want to defend my country and preserve our freedom. To me, that's worth fighting for ..."

 

"I don't want to go to war..."

"I don't want to go to war..."

"I don't want to go to war..."

 

Know WHY I LIKE reading comments like that? No, this isn't sarcasm. Too serious for that. I LIKE reading those comments because it tells me that whatever YOUR position on this, YOU are NOT barbarians. YOU are civilized human beings that understand that crashing planes into buildings is wrong. Murdering innocent passengers on an airplane is wrong, and cannot be tolerated.

 

IMHO, you're concerned, a bit worried, angered, and scared. Good. BE that, and stay that way. You, me, him, her, we're ALL going to need those emotions to understand how this war is going to need to be fought, and won. And IMHO my friends, we no longer HAVE a choice. YOU no longer have a choice. I would think that Tuesday, September 11, 2001 made that pretty clear to every American who knows what happened on that day. 'Cause the terrorists brought it right into your own back yard. It should be abundantly clear to each one of you that you, yes YOU, are NOT Automatically SAFE, ANYTIME you go out in public. The risk is there and still exists.

 

Is anyone STILL wondering why Disneyland, concert halls, sports games, etc., etc. have been shut down for the last week? Surely, while it's commendable and patriotic, I hope you don't think it was done as a protest against the terrorist act, or as a tribute to those who died. It was to protect those that are still alive. And having 60,000 people in one place with the imminent threat of additional attacks just wasn't very smart.

 

But make NO mistake folks, YOU are under attack by these terrorists. And you are and will remain under attack until the problem is eliminated. Period. Don't like that? Do those words scare you? Well, they SHOULD. 'Cause THAT'S the point of declaring war, and that was the term the President used, on terrorists.

 

No, that DOES NOT mean that we should stick a rifle in Derek's hands and send him off to a combat zone. Nor tachonene, who's hereby declared themself a pacifist. To be honest and blunt, with those concerns and attitudes, they wouldn't be any good at it anyway. Combat has a LOT to do with mental attitude and preparedness, and it's NOT for everyone, and should be left to those with a propensity for it. I'm pretty sure Viet Nam taught we Americans that, if not the rest of the world.

 

But, as Bart and others have brought up, there ARE things YOU could do to help. Everything helps, O.K.? You could join the Army band. You could fuel trucks, answer a telephone, check the laundry list. You could join a band and entertain troops, ala USO shows and NOT join the military. You could entertain troops and their friends and families at your local pub when they come home on leave. It ALL helps, friends.

 

What I DO hope is that 9/11 (Hmm, guess it WAS an 'emergency call' for us to wake up)illustrated the ONE thing you're NOT going to be allowed to do. You're NOT going to be allowed to ignore it. Sadly, something we Americans, and I'm sure others from other countries as well, have done for too long. Turning the other cheek and ignoring it cost thousands of people their lives in New York City. Thousands of people who left the house that morning thinking they were headed home after work, or after touring the WTC. They didn't make it home. Look, LOOK at your family and friends today and for just a second, think "what if I left here today, and that same thing happened to me?" THINK. THINK about it. 'Cause right now, until each of us chooses to do something about it, it could still happen to you.

 

That's not ME talkin' folks. That's the terrorists. THEY'RE bringing it to you. And they're gonna KEEP bringing it to you, and killing people that you know, that YOU care about, until YOU do something about it. You wanna throw your hands up and say "Oh, don't include ME, Mr. terrorist scumbag, 'cause I'm a pacifist"? From THEIR perspective, GOOD. That's makes YOU just that much easier of a target to eliminate, 'cause you're stupid and won't even fight to save your own life. So, you deserve to die. Again, that's not MY point of view. It's the terrorist's point of view. You're an American, or a sympathizer with Americans, so you should die.

 

I hope this helps you to understand and appreciate their mindset. Doesn't matter if you don't want to get involved. Or ARE a pacifist. Just better for THEM if that's your philosphy. But make NO mistake, these terrorists have vowed on their lives (remember that the hijackers were SUICIDE bombers, O.K.?) to keep on attacking you until they get you. EACH and every one of you. And they'll sacrifice themself, their wives, their brothers, their children, their mothers and fathers and everyone in their group to do so. No matter HOW LONG it takes.

 

So, get that "Oh, they'll go away and leave me alone if I (we) leave them alone" attitude out of your head. We TRIED that. We've tried that for over 20 years. And know what the end result was, don't you? You probably have watched it over a dozen times, haven't you? Watched that second plane, filled with innocent passengers that were on their way home; or to meetings; or headed for a fun vacation, fly right straight into the World Trade Center, full of people working to fulfill their lives, their dreams; people visiting the WTC, just to look around. Just regular folks. And now, with little exception, they're all dead. 'Cause we as a collective group, all stupidly said "Oh, that only happens over there. They'll never get to me in my comfortable little world". Yep, we said it, and it cost us.

 

Personally, I don't want anyone here to fight, as in combat, if they do not feel comfortable with that. I don't want you to pick up a rifle and head off to some scumbag hole in God Knows Where. I wish no one had to. But there are other people who ARE willing to do that, and have the mindset and capabilities to do so, so you shouldn't have to.

 

But you STILL can help. And the FIRST thing you CAN do is make a conscience decision TO help. To do whatever you can, whatever YOUR proficient at, to help make sure that such a horrendous, murderous act never happens again to you, to anyone you know, anywhere on this planet. Once you make that decision, and that commitment to eliminate such acts from this globe, you might surprise yourself on how just even the smallest thing (i.e., saying "Thanks" when you see someone in uniform at the gas pump or in the grocery line.) can help a LOT.

 

Don't allow your resolve to wane. As all the administration has said, it's going to be a long battle. Don't forget September 11th. Don't forget that flag you hung up, or still have hung up, if you did so. Don't forget the words of Tony Blair. Don't forget that Britain, in a sincerely heartfelt gesture, played the U.S. National Anthem at BRITAIN'S Changing Of The Guard. Don't forget that 62 NATIONS lost citizens in the World Trade Center attack. Don't forget that these terrorists lived, and may still live, right here in the United States.

 

And DON'T forget that NOT everyone who is of Middle Eastern descent is to blame. MOST people of Middle Eastern nationality and / or Islamic faith are GOOD, hard working folk. You must help them, too. And if you'd lash out in anger at someone just because they're of Middle Eastern descent or Islamic faith, then you're no better than the terrorists, and in fact are perpetrating a terrorist act against them, just on a smaller scale.

 

Don't forget that this is NOT about America vs. anybody. It IS about decent, civilized people vs. terrorists that would take your life simply because you ARE civilized.

 

Up to YOU whether you let the terrorists accomplish their goal. They've already brought the fight to YOU. Now, what're YOU gonna do about it?

 

Just my own thoughts.

 

J.B.

 

This message has been edited by ModernDrummer on 09-19-2001 at 04:24 AM

[djarrett]

OK, MD:

You have done it again.

I am going to have to give some thought to your post before I add my two cents.

 

DJ

[oyajipunk]

I will fight for democracy any time given the chance, and I am not even American. I will be fighting for my rights, not anybody elses'.

 

But if the guy I am fighting starts talking drums I will sit down and talk paradiddles till the sun comes down, because I am a person before I am a soldier or, God forbid, a politician.

 

We don't hate them, they hate us - remember that. They didn't ask for military attacks and trade barriers, but we could not stand aside and witness human rights being trodden on in ethnic wars, which threatened trade with our Saudi friends. So they hate us for that.

 

I don't hate them for their religion, race, or thinking. I do feel the perpetrators of this event must be brought to justice, but does that equal war with a country because they didn't like us butting in? They do need to be told not to mess with other countries, but do they need to be oblitterated? Me thinks not.

 

I am starting to believe more and more the rumors that this was all arranged to bring to an end (or bring to a head) the extended conflicts in the middle east. Spicy stuff (not my stuff though!!), but you have to admit it is working. Since when have all these countries teamed together like they are now? Food for thought...

[ModernDrummer]

LOL, DJ. IMHO, if my reply gets even one other person to realize that terrorism effects EVERYBODY in some way, and that there's something everyone can do even without picking up a weapon, it was well worth the time to post it.

 

I never served in Viet Nam, DJ, 'cause of my age, graduation date, etc. But I have quite a few friends that did. Ya know what I've heard from them MOST often about serving in Viet Nam? It wasn't the fear of being killed, though some were. It wasn't the trauma of being thrown into that kind of 'tunnel warfare', though some were traumatized. It wasn't the horror of having to take another person's life, in defense of their own of of a comrade.

 

The thing I heard MOST often is that, when they returned to the U.S., people would call them 'Baby Killers' and 'Murderers' and other vile names. I can't possibly imagine how it would've felt. Imagine having someone do that to you when you returned from a war, right there at the airport, gas pump or check out line, because you patriotically went to serve your country as you thought you should. These men were called by their country and answered that call. And thrown somewhere they didn't want to be doing things they didn't want to do.

 

That's why I mentioned something as simple as just telling a serviceman or woman "Thanks" if you see them somewhere. Do it NOW. 'Cause THEY'RE probably just a wee bit MORE fearful than YOU of what lies ahead!

 

And especially in a forum such as this, where many or most of us are pretty much always seeking approval for our actions, i.e. applause from the audience, a thumbs up from the sound engineer, etc., everyone knows that a kind word in your ear has a profound impact on how you feel about yourself, and how the rest of your day pans out. Curiously, as we humans are basically insecure anyway, a vicious word can have not just a negative impact, but at times a devastating one on your psyche.

 

THAT'S why I think it important to have EVERYONE support this counter-terrorist war. You most certainly don't have to take up arms yourself if that's too uncomfortable for you. And it's NOT cowardly or cowering to not want to do so, nor to say you do not want to do so. But just because you do not favor nor believe in war, you can certainly support the movement to help eliminate terrorist acts and help yourself to preserve the freedom you now have to go about your life.

 

It IS important to understand that the people on this planet, NOT just Americans, have been dealing with terrorism a long time. And the various countries and governments have tried various approaches in dealing with it. Thousands upon thousands of innocent people have lost their lives due to terrorism, NOT just the people at the WTC or on those planes. Terrorists don't CARE if you're 'just a drummer'. They don't care if Australian, not American. They don't care about the color of your skin, the accent in your voice, or your personal views. The mindset is that you're either on THEIR side, and are going to help them, or you're on the AMERICANS side, in which case they want to kill you.

 

As I said, it's NOT me, or the American Government, forcing you to that decision. It's the terrorists. Personally, I prefer pacifists, LOL. Sing a song, drink a beer. Make Love Not War, stuff. That's what *I* grew up with. But when someone's coming at your wife, or your child or your friend with a box cutter wanting to slit their throat, it's in your own selfish interests to do SOMETHING! Like the passengers on Flight 93, even then, you may not survive. 50/50 chance, at best. But if you do nothing, you're 100% guaranteed that you, and your loved ones, are going to die. You most certainly don't have to believe me. Just rewind the tapes over the last week and prove it to yourself.

 

Personally, I wish the idiots, the terrorists would just 'go away'. Just stop bothering people. Let them believe the way they want to believe, and we'll all do the same. I don't want to return to 'combat mode', where I have to look at another human being as an adversary, a threat that I must survive by elimination of that threat. Unfortunately, our trusted terrorists have chosen to put us in that mode. Like the fly that keeps buzzing around your head no matter how much you swat at it. You and I know that ultimately, the only solution is to eliminate the fly.

 

So I say "Enough's enough". Let the World Trade Center be the single event that finally brought all the decent folk together for a common cause. Let some positive come from the ashes of that atrocity. Let people of all colors, of all religions, of all nationalities finally stand in support of one another. The kind, gentle, decent folk of this planet NOW have a golden opportunity to say "We're not taking this any more" as a unified voice. And because of the incident at the World Trade Center, sort of 'the straw that broke the camel's back', it would appear those gentle, decent folk NOW have the means and opportunity to eradicate the threat.

 

I believe in the old saying, 'The meek shall inherit the Earth'. I hope it's that way. That's how it SHOULD be. But in the real world, that's not necessarily accomplish by sticking flowers in the barrel of a gun. SOME people, bad people, believe that if you 'turn the other cheek', you're just a sucker for giving them a chance to whack THAT cheek as well. Don't be a sucker with these terrorists, my friends. It could get you killed.

 

For me, I heard a description about me that I thought pretty accurate, if not particularly complimentary: "I am a pacifist, I am NOT 'non-violent'". That fits pretty well, LOL. Kinda like that old joke about "I'm a peace loving man. Now leave me in peace or I'll hunt ya down and kill ya!" http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif LMAO! Sure describes my father! LMAO!