Stick Control - Stone's book

[Passeist]

I keep hearing that Stone's book, Stick Control, is so great, but I find myself questioning it's usefulness.

Most songs fall within a certain range of tempos. When I try the exercises from Stick Control at those tempos I find that they are too slow to be useful. If I double them up, they're so fast that they're just a blur.

The exercises, applied to the kit, only seem to sound good with a metronome setting between about 100 and 120 (or 200 to 240, for those who like hyperbole), but there are very few songs written for that tempo range. Most fall between 50 and 90 or between 120 and 140.

So my question is this, where would these exercises be useful, what type of music would they be applied to?

[DrummerCafe]

STICK CONTROL is useful for EVERY style of drumming at EVERY tempo.

 

STICK CONTROL is meant to do what it says: Give you stick control. For decades now this book has been voted the Number One book for drummers. If you are having problems finding it's many uses, I would highly recommend that you hook up with a good teacher to show you how to apply it to the drumset. Grooves, beats, fills, solos ... the list is endless.

 

Hang in there and don't give up on it!

 

 

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[djarrett]

I've said it before and will again ... I remember the first time I saw page one as a young drummer. All the same patterns ... over and over again! I thought my teacher had lost his mind! "What kind of moron he must think I am ... giving me this monotonous book!"

 

Well, as I grew as a player and the teacher taught me the correct approach to the book. The subtle nuances of controlling my sticks! The application to the drumset and all other areas of percussion!

 

I became assimilated by the Stick Control Borge! If you want to become a serious student of drums and drumming ... regarding Stone's Stick Control ... RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!

 

DJ

[Passeist]

Just to clarify, I actually have done quite a bit of work with Stick Control, and I developed a bunch of nifty applications for the drum set. People hear them and they're really impressed (they sound far more complicated than they are)but I rarely ever get to use any of this stuff outside of a solo. Almost every song I encounter is either too fast or too slow for the paradiddle based stuff to work well.

I've heard the same complaint from people who learned to drum in marching bands - they have this whole bag of technique, but they rarely get to use it when playing the kit with a band. The corps techniques are either too slow to be effective, or too fast to be coherent, give the tempo of the songs.

It seems that, for most styles of music, the single-stroke based ("orchestral"?) is the way to go.

It's more likely that I'm really missing something because almost every reference to Stick Control that I come across is emphatically positive.

It would be nice to find some recordings that make use of these techniques in popular music.

[DrummerCafe]

I can see your point if you are playing paradiddles all on the snare drum in a slow tempo. There are some slight nuances between each stroke, but your right about possibly not using them when playing sixteenth notes at a tempo of 40 b.p.m. to the quarter note.

 

What I think you are missing is that it takes a LOT of control to play it that slow; harder still would be very soft and slow. You will develop a lot of control by practicing it this way.

 

The other point is that when you apply a single paradiddle to the kit, you can place your hands on different drums. Try exercise number 5 on page three (I believe). Put your right hand on the hihat and the left hand on the snare. Accent the left hand stroke that starts the left handed paradiddle; ghost all the other notes. Add a simple kick pattern and you've got yourself a nice little funk groove.

 

You also need to feel free to read the exercises as if they were written in sixteenth notes ... not just eighth notes. Remember these are just stickings; you have to take what's there and apply it in different ways to the drumkit. Let your imagination go wild!

 

Hope this makes sense. If you've already done this type of thing with Stick Control and still feel the same way about it ... I don't know what else to tell you. It's tough enough trying to explain using words only.

 

I still think you should take just ONE lesson with a professional instructor and let them show you how to apply Stick Control to the drumset.

 

Also, check out anything that Steve Gadd, Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colauita, Steve Smith, Dave Garibaldi and Peter Erskine play on. These guys (and countless others) use rudiments and Stick Control in their playing, whether they know it or not!

 

 

 

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Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[djarrett]

Hey, Bart ... It is kinda like ... giving a haircut over the internet! NOT POSSIBLE!

 

BUT, you do a great job attempting, and you got me running for my Stick Control book! Gonna try that funk thing you reference!

 

Thanks,

DJ

[cyclingtaol.com]

greetings-

 

Regarding the Stone "stick control" book. Yes, great for control, not so great for quick application to real life. BUT... I came up with a one page system for my students that can make the sticking patterns in the stone book more useful as time, fills and even creating complex polyrhythms. This is by no means a new concept, just another way of approaching rhythmic ideas.

 

(this will get long, so you can run away now if you're already familiar with these ideas. If not, grab some coffee and read on...)

 

I call it SHIFTING FEEL THROUGH STICKING PATTERNS. I came up with it when I noticed that as "western" drummers, we tend to always approach rhythm from a "the beat is static and the rhythm must shift over top of it" approach; so- quarter note is the beat, eighth notes subdivide the beat into 2 even strokes, triplets subdivide the beat into 3 even strokes, etc. BUT>

 

What if I decided to play a sticking pattern (let's say "alternating" just because it's the first one we're always taught) in a STATIC WAY and SHIFT THE BEAT UNDERNEATH IT? Try this...

 

Play an alternating sticking pattern at a moderate pace. Now tap your foot as if you're playing eighth notes (2 strokes per foot tap). Then WITHOUT STOPPING YOUR HANDS, change your foot taps to 3 strokes per foot tap (triplets). Then WITHOUT STOPPING YOUR HANDS, change your foot taps to 4 strokes per foot tap ("sixteenths"). You have now broken down a barrier to the western approach to drumming (IMHO).

 

Imagine this- I am playing that "moderate pace" sticking with no accents and you enter the room. I ask you "what kind of notes am I playing?" You will probably say "eighth notes" or "sixteenth notes" based on your learning. WRONG! I might be playing really slow 64th notes; or really fast whole notes! Or (heaven forbid) septuplets!

 

What I'm driving at is that many young rhythm students are conditioned to believe that the "natural" subdivision of a beat is 2 or 4; and we're conditioned to believe that an alternating sticking should be the default approach to all new rhythms we are learning. Why? BECAUSE WE HAVE 2 HANDS! But for me, the scales fell from my eyes when I decided that not only do I control the RHYTHM I'm playing, I also control the BEAT PLACEMENT and THE STICKING. (3 items). Here's how it works...

 

SHIFTING FEEL THROUGH STICKING PATTERNS:

 

Take a piece of 8.5" x 11" paper- fold it in half so that it creases along the 8.5" axis. Then open it up and lay it in front of you horizontally.

 

On the left side, upper left corner, draw a quarter note. Under it, draw 2 eighth notes grouped together. Under that, draw 3 eighth notes grouped together. Under that, draw 4 sixteenth notes grouped together. Under that, draw 5 sixteenth notes grouped together. Under that, draw 6 sixteenth notes grouped together. (that's enough for now...) THESE ARE YOUR ONE-BEAT GROUPS.

 

On the right side of the paper write these stickings and label them "BASE 4 STICKINGS";

 

R L R L R L R L < (mirror) > L R L R L R L R

R R L L R R L L < (mirror) > L L R R L L R R

R L R R L R L L < (mirror) > L R L L R L R R

 

Under these, on the right side of the paper write these stickings and label them "BASE 3 STICKINGS";

 

R R L R R L < (mirror) > L L R L L R

R L L R L L < (mirror) > L R R L R R

 

You're done.

 

NOW... All of the following exercises assume 4 beats per measure. Feel free to alter this after you get the hang of this-

 

On the snare drum, select ONE sticking from the right side and play through ALL of the groups on the left side without stopping (play each group 4 times- I also suggest you use a metronome to keep you honest). Let's start with our beloved RLRL...

 

Of course we're all familiar with the first sticking- alternating- so this one won't be too tough on the brain. By the way, if the pentuplets (the 5's- is that the right word?) give you a pain, you can skip these for now....

 

NOTICE - the BASE 4 stickings are "easier" with the EVEN subdivision Groups, but "tougher" with the ODD subdivision groups. Remember the first time you attempted to tackle triplets? (--With the alternating sticking, the sextuplets at the bottom of the left side aren't too tough because they subdivide across the hands into eighth notes---) Anyway...

 

now let's have some fun- On the snare drum, select ONE sticking from the right side and play through ALL of the groups on the left side without stopping (play each group 4 times- I also suggest you use a metronome to keep you honest). Now let's try the doubles...

 

QUARTER NOTES- no problem. 1 2 3 4

EIGHTH NOTES- no problem. 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

EIGHTH NOTE TRIPLETS- yeek... 1 ta tay 2 ta tay 3 ta tay 4 ta tay

SIXTEENTH NOTES- no problem. 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 4e&a

PENTUPLETS- AAAgggghhhhhh!

SEXTUPLETS- yeek...

 

Notice that again, the EVEN subdivision groups are pretty easy, but the ODD subdivision groups can get downright nasty. Why- because you have an even number of hands! Do yourself a favor- practice them. The polyrhythm gods will smile upon you for your efforts...

---------------------------------------------

Now- go to the "base 3" stickings on the right- lets take RRL---

 

Play through all of the left side groups using that sticking. To keep the flow clean (and keep your sanity) switch to the next group after 3 measures- trust me...

 

Now notice that the BASE 3 rhythms are "easier" and the BASE 2 rhythms are "tougher" - because of the sticking. (In this case, the sextuplets can be thought of as a base 3 rhythm because of it's inherent "triplets inside eighth notes" feel- love those compound rhythms! - it's even AND odd!)

 

The trick here is to select ONE PART FROM ONE SIDE OF THE PAGE AND RUN THROUGH ALL OF THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PAGE. How's this? Try selecting the pattern [4 sixteenth notes for example] from the left side of the page and going through all of the stickings on the right side of the page. DON'T LET THE BEAT CHANGE! NO ACCENTS! Use a metronome...

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(4 weeks later...) Feel cocky? Sit at the drumset- place your RH on tom 1 and your LH on the snare. Keep the beat with your kick drum and go through these exercises. Instant fill ideas! Now move your hands around the kit, but don't stray from the pattern--

 

OR - RH on ride, LH on snare. Choose a pattern and play. A few well placed accents and hey- instant time ideas- I'M AMAZING! (Disclaimer- some pattern combinations will yield clunky or boring results- your results may vary).

 

This is not new stuff- Gary Caffee wrote a series of books that use this kind of thinking. I just like it because it all fits on one sheet of paper, yet it yields a lifetime of study...

 

Hope you like it.

 

Tom Hitt

Cycling Troll Studio

cyclingt@aol.com

[djarrett]

Wow, Tom!

That is great stuff!

Welcome to MusicPlayer.com's Drum Talk!

Thanks,

DJ

[Jason00]

My band instructor got me started on Stone's Stick Control in junior high and I used it through college and beyond. I felt it help me keep a good, consistent sense of rhythm and increased my endurance.