djarrett Posted September 9, 2001 Author Share Posted September 9, 2001 Thanks for that insight Skip. You drove home my point that there has to be some designations from time to time in your life. Whether assigned or earned. They may mean everything ... or they may mean nothing. YOU are the magic behind you! If you are a professional drummer ... and you act like a jerk (and believe me ... I've hung with some pros that were like that!) then ... I still would not classify you (in my mind) as a pro. If you are just a hobbist and play an occassional town play ... but you carry yourself like a pro ... then ... I am likely to consider you that ... (in my mind!) Skip ... WELCOME to MusicPlayer.com's Drum Talk! DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 Hey Skip, One thing to say!....BRAVO...Well said!!! ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 I'm off the scale. Full on raging, on fire smokin'... shredding pro's and amatures alike-I am the great felix stein...the greatest, worst, richest, poorest drummer breathing. I am cliche'...I am profound- I am the embodyment of what you all aspire to be. At peace with my existence, my level of playing is infinite...I just keep getting better and better! felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted September 10, 2001 Author Share Posted September 10, 2001 Well, Felix: A week in Hawaii seemed to have heightened your confidence! DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaddabout Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 Hey Felix, when did you become Muhammad Ali? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted September 10, 2001 Author Share Posted September 10, 2001 Hey, Felix: Tell us what you really think? DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitoniX Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 I'm a studio bass player and drummer wanna be! I'm forced to work with drummers on a daily basis http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I'm also a programmer and have been working on a drum machine program. So in that regards I'm a professional "Virtual Drummer"... Now about my real life chops..... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif http://digitonix.com DigitoniX - The Future Marches to a Different Beat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhubley Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 I'd like to first off say that I learn a lot from Bart, DJ, and most others on this forum. I also will say that if i made anywhere near 100% of my income via drumming, I'd have to beat my chest and walk around like i was King. No one could stop me. I would be the great income earning drummer! (imagine a devilish laugh) But seriously, i commend all of us for drumming. I aspire to one day be able to say i make my money through drumming. This is why i call myself semi-pro. I take drumming very seriously, but currently make less than 1% of my $$ with it. I have a day job. Right now, i am working on pursuing contacts, gigs, and other drum-related income opps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 I know I said I was done posting on this topic, but I had one additional thought. Do you think there is any chance that people are confusing the terms like Professional, Semi-Professional, Hobbiest and Amateur with these terms: Advanced, Intermediate and Beginner. After some careful thought I couldn't help feel that those who have opposed the terms, especially the term "professional", see to add and detract from the meanings we've talked about. A hobbiest or amateur doesn't mean that you are a beginner. You can be a hobbiest AND be an advanced player. Likewise, being a professional doesn't mean you are an advanced player. You would think that someone who has obtained the title of "professional" would also be an advanced player; but this isn't always the case. Like the terms in question, Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced playing levels is often times judged by the eyes of the beholder. I think some of us here are confusing the terms, or perhaps, as already mentioned, they all mean different things to different people; there is no standard. Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 Yeah Bart, that's pretty much what I was trying to say: people give different meanings to those terms depending who you talk to, and therefore I try to avoid them. Yeah there are some people who confuse the terms with "Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced". Even DJ's classification read "Amateur (or novice)". There are also those who confuse "Professional, Hobbyist, Amateur" with "Really Serious and Competent, Not So Serious or Competent, Total Dilettante and Probably Incompetent." On the flip side you have people who make a distinction between "Artist" and "Professional". To them, an artist is somebody who is making serious music that has "integrity" whereas a professional is a "sellout", somebody who is willing to play dreck music strictly for money. Regardless of whether you or I feel that they don't really mean those things, lots of people think they do. Therefore when you use those terms they are loaded with connotations.... therefore I don't use them and I feel it helps me to communicate better if I don't. That's all I was trying to say. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to be recognized for one's dedication, long years of study, hustle, perseverence, etc. But then again a musician might have done all those things and still not be making their living from music, so again... the title seems irrelevant. And like someone else said above, sometimes life isn't fair and you DON'T get recognized for having worked your ass off. But oh well, if you're doing what you want to do - making your living from drumming - and YOU and your immediate peers know what you did, then who cares? Fact of the matter is that many people will never have a "calling", never understand what it means to dedicate yourself to anything completely, so therefore they can't appreciate anyone else who does anyway (unless they can quantify it in number of dollars earned, which says nothing). That's their loss and I'd rather do what I can do and not be recognized for it by the "general public", than never know what it was like to have done it at all, and basing my judgements of people on false status, money, etc. --Lee This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 09-10-2001 at 10:22 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted September 11, 2001 Author Share Posted September 11, 2001 Bart: Thanks for putting that thought into words, and thanks Lee (honorary drummer!) for adding your thoughts. Make sure that everyone understands that the terms listed in no way reflect one's abilities or level of accomplishments with regards to playing. It is simply a status of classifing your pursuit of playing the instrument. Hope this helps clarify that! Thanks, DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 Originally posted by Bartman: Do you think there is any chance that people are confusing the terms like Professional, Semi-Professional, Hobbiest and Amateur with these terms: Advanced, Intermediate and Beginner. No confusion here. I get the difference completely. My main issue continues to be the label of "Hobbyist" being thrown on me because I don't quite meet the '50% income from drumming' stipulation. I make about 30% of my income playing drums. If I'm in my room building a model airplane, my income is, what, negative-20 bucks? Point is, I make money playing drums, so I'm a semi-pro drummer. It's not a hobby. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djarrett Posted September 11, 2001 Author Share Posted September 11, 2001 Hey, Sidereal: Do not get hung-up because I chose to use 50% as the "requirement" to be considered Semi-Pro. I think 30% is close enough to consider you in that rank. That was just a nice round number. I think that a margin of acceptability might be plus or minus 20%! Hope that clarifies things! Besides ... you ought to know by now that I am not staunch about these things. "By Gosh ... you make 46.925% of your income from playing drums! ... well that makes you a hobbiest!" ... that would be a little extreme ... don't you think? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Thanks, DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 Yes, I never thought that DJ ever meant a "precise" figure like 50%. Semi-professional would mean that you SUPPLIMENT your income with work outside of music. Not to continue this thing, but I guess my take on it would be that if IN YOUR MIND your MAIN gig is music, and yet you suppliment it with a day job or something outside of music, you would be semi-professional. All that says is that you do more than just music ... not that you can't do music fulltime, but choose not to. A Hobbiest would be someone who may be a incredible player but has chosen to make a career in something other than music. In this case, even though they may play some gigs and make some money, their career focus is not music but something else. I think the word CAREER is a good one to apply in this situation; at least how I would classify and define these terms. I view them in relation to your career choice; not how much money you make, how much you play, etc. Shoot, I play very few gigs or sessions per week. If the terms applied to how active I was, I would have to apply the title that reflects not working much in music. I've gotten to the point now in my career where I make a lot of money with minimal amount of work. This allows me to stay home and raise my son ... which by the way ... I'm a Mr. Mom. If I don't have a session or gig ... I'm at home with my son ... and I LOVE IT!!! Part of me wants to be out doing more, but there will be a time and place for that. Right now, my son needs his daddy and I need my son; it's a beautiful thing and I thank God for blessing me the way He has. Okay ... I'm done ... for now! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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