DrummerCafe Posted August 30, 2001 Share Posted August 30, 2001 We've discussed the role of the drummer; now what is the role of a percussionist? Let's assume there is a drummer in the band, as well as a percussionist or hand drummer. Even if you don't play percussion, you may have at least worked with a percussionist. ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvergar Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 Well, I am the drummer in a band that plays funk/hip-hop influenced songs. We are looking for a percussionist to play traditional afro-cuban instruments for some songs, but DJ/scratch/trigger samples for others. Obviously, this is a rare combination. I see the role of the percussionist as the "grove-spice." I mean that the drums and bass are the foundation and the percussion is a texture within the foundation. You could have a concrete, wood, tile or marble floor -- they all server the same purpose of being the foundation of the house, but each has its own unique effect on your experience in that house. I would prefer to switch off with a percussionist now and again just for variety. ------------------ "You don't just EAT the biggest turnip in the world!" http://www.theodysseystudio.com "You don't just EAT the biggest turnip in the world!" http://www.theodysseystudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnie c. Posted September 2, 2001 Share Posted September 2, 2001 Bart,when did you play with blood sweat and tears and how are their charts? Did you do a lot of sight reading with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted September 2, 2001 Author Share Posted September 2, 2001 Originally posted by vinnie c.: Bart,when did you play with blood sweat and tears and how are their charts? Did you do a lot of sight reading with them? I didn't play with the band, but rather played with for a number of years with their former saxophonist, Bill Tillman. We played a lot of Blood, Sweat & Tears tunes in his band, as well as Tower of Power, Chicago, etc. We did a lot of sight reading and read the original arrangements from the BS@T library. I even took the time to make transcriptions of the drum tracks for many of the tunes. Speaking of BS&T ... I've got to tell you that the original horn section was great ... but the drummer's time was AWFUL!!! I could NOT believe it as I would listen to the old recordings. Needless to say, I had a blast playing with Tillman, but the man sure is bi-polar. I could tell you hundreds of stories. I finally learned about the need for healthy boundaries after playing with him. ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojosaur Posted September 2, 2001 Share Posted September 2, 2001 A good percussionist can float rhythmic ideas.....the drummer needs to maintain time, among other things, but the percussionist can act almost like a conductor of an orchestra....heck, a really good percussionist can act actually move the jam without making a sound....I can do this from the middle of the audience.....have done it many times.....of all the instruments the percussionist is closest to the shaman, as many of the instruments are used in afro-carribean spirtual contexts...... This message has been edited by mojosaur on 09-01-2001 at 11:45 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted September 2, 2001 Share Posted September 2, 2001 It differs depending on the situation, but certain key concepts come to mind.... texture, announcing transitions (i.e. versus to choruses), playing the role of "dynamic conductor" (borrowing a bit from mojosaur), providing rhythmic undertones.... So much of the time, drummers need to be understated in their playing. At the same time, there are certain implied things going on underneath. Like a shuffle pattern, you're not playing all those ghosted notes, but it's implied. A percussionist can actually play those without getting in the way of the rhythm and implied feel. If there's a singer or a well-defined lead instrument, the drummer can concentrate on maintaining that lock with the bassist, while the percussionist can support the singer or the lead, i.e. lift and drop the dynamics to match that lead. So then another key question is, what is the role of the drummer when playing with a percussionist? I'd say in most cases, the drummer's role is to maintain that lock with the bass player, while the percussionist can add that texture and propel the dynamics of the lead instrument or voice. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted September 3, 2001 Author Share Posted September 3, 2001 For me, the role of a percussionist is wide and varied ... all depending on the style of music, the song, and the group. Typically when I play percussion with a drummer I working with him/her to lay down a nice groove; weaving what I play into the drummer's fabric. Sometimes the drummer takes a backseat when I'm laying down a thick percussion groove; the drums and the percussion switch roles. Many people have always viewed percussion as the "sprinkles" on the cake, which it is, but that's not all. The groove set-up by the percussion can also play a dominant role, or even a dual role with the drums. Again it really depends on the song and the style. When I'm playing percussion, I really hate it when the drummer plays so busy that there is practically no room for me. A drummer has to play differently when working with a percussionist; you need to work with each other. If you hear the percussionist adding something to your groove, don't change and start mimicking what he's playing. As a percussionist I can tell you that this happens a lot! The drummer will start playing WHAT I'M PLAYING rather than stick to what he was playing (which inspired me in the first place). An example might be that I'm playing claves on a Latin tune, adding to the drummer's groove which happens to on the Bell of the Ride, Kick drum, Hihat and Toms. What does he do? He starts playing cross-stick or latin rimshots ... the EXACT rhythm I'm playing! So I switch to congas. What does the drummer do? Starts back on the tom tom groove. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif The same goes for the percussionist. When I'm playing drums, it's very frustrating when the percussionist starts doubling everything I'm playing instead of finding something to COMPLIMENT my part or rhythm. If I'm playing a Pop groove on the drums using a cross-stick on 2 and 4, don't start whacking away on a wood block on 2 and 4 as well. DO SOMETHING ELSE OR DON'T PLAY!!! Sure, it may sound cool on a particular song, if that's the sound you really want ... but that isn't usually the case. Even as a professional, I come across drummers and percussionist who don't know how to work with each other. Since I play both drums and percussion, I get to experience both sides; and it can be a real nightmare at times. There needs to be a unique relationship between a drummer & percussionist. Talk with each other; work together. If the drummer is playing straight sixteenths on the hihat, don't start playing the same EXACT thing with a shaker ... do something else! In rare instances you might want the thick sound that comes from part doubling, but that's been rare in my experience. If the percussionist is playing congas, don't start playing some tom-tom groove on the drums; play something else. Again, it can work on rare occassions in particular songs, but for the most part you need to be playing something else to compliment the congas. I guess it all boils down to listening to each other. A drummer and percussionist working together is a whole different level of playing. Your ears have to really be listening to each other in an entirely different way than you might do with a bass player, or even the rest of the band for that matter. Drums and Perc need to listen for the meter, groove, timbre and the textures from what the other person is playing. BE A TEAM!!! ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojosaur Posted September 3, 2001 Share Posted September 3, 2001 Sidereal......exactly. You got it. And I couldn't agree more about the drummer/percussionist dependence Bart talks about. In the Afro-cuban stuff we play, eveyone has their own part.......sometimes the counter rhythms are so out there its hard to hear where they lock in. But its all based on space.....like Bart says. And if the drummer is playing 16th notes all the time, where does that leave you? This message has been edited by mojosaur on 09-03-2001 at 12:40 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerebralborealis Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 colors and groove enhancement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.