To take the gig, or not to take the gig

[rlhubley]

How do you decide whether or not to accept the proposed gig? I have a basic thought on this, but am quite interested in how you all make these choices.

[DrummerCafe]

There was a thread awhile back that I would recommend you read. There were some great comments; the topic was specifically about auditions.

 

Here's the URL:

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000267.html

 

 

Before I audition or even talk about joining the group or band, I investigate to see whether or not my involvement with them is going to further my career. If not, then it's a waste of time for everyone involved. I won't be happy and they'll be looking for another drummer in a few weeks or months. Unfortunately, I've learned this the hard way.

 

Since I'm a professional musician, it's important that certain things be in place BEFORE I approach them about a gig.

 

Here are a few ideas that I personally use when making a decision whether or not to play with a band/group/artist (in no particular order).

• No Pay, No Play
  
• Musically speaking: are we headed in the same direction?
  
• Do I like their music?
  
• Do I like the members in the band? If so, would we get along?
  
• Is this a permanent or short term position?
  
• How much rehearsal will be involved?
  
• What kind of gigs do they have lined up?
  
• How many dates are usually booked per month?
  
• Does this group travel? If so, do they give a "per diem"? Do the take care of travel expenses? How often do they plan to be on the road?
  
• Musicianship: are we on the same level?
  
• What are their expectations of me?
  
• Do I have to sing?
  
• Will I have any other responsibilities other than playing my instrument?
  
• Do they pay cartage?
  
• Original or cover?
  

 

There are a lot of other things I think about; this is just a short list. If the answer to any one of these questions is not to my liking, then I have to seriously consider whether or not I should even entertain the thought of working with the group/artist.

 

The biggest question for me is this: If I join this group/band, is it going to further my career in a positive way? If the answer is YES, the I can probably work with some of the other issues. Another example would be if the $$$ weren't there; I would still consider playing with a group/artist as long as I knew it would definitely further my career ... or ... would REALLY love to play the music. Since I have bills (no debt mind you ... LOL), I still have to be wise with my choices and time commitments.

 

Remember, being in a band is 20% music, 80% personal stuff (communication, getting along, etc.). Make sure you ask any and all questions you have; don't assume ANYTHING!!!

 

Don't do anything until you have peace about your decision. If you are unsettled or uneasy, chances are you are doing the wrong thing. Step back, give yourself some time. Resist the temptation to just jump in; take a few days to think about it. Allow soberness to settle in your thinking.

 

I highly recommend that you think about the answers YOU would want to hear to the questions above and any others you think of. This way you will be prepared in advance BEFORE you get the call. If the band/group/artist needs to have an immediate answer, you'll be ready. If you don't like an answer that they give, tell them you'll need some time to think about it.

 

Hope this helps. I'm sure everyone else will have some great suggestions for you.

 

Oh, one more thing ... I always like to play in bands in which I am the weakest player. This really pushes me and takes me to a new level in my playing.

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

 

 

This message has been edited by Bartman on 08-20-2001 at 12:32 AM

[ModernDrummer]

rl - Do you mean joining up with a band, or taking a gig at a particular club, forum or whatever? I thought you meant, for example, how does our band decide what gigs to play or not play.

 

Hadn't thought about Bart's reference to joining a band, or playing a session, but that makes sense too. As well as Bart's thoughts about it.

[rlhubley]

First of all, let me thank Bart for your advice. That really helps. Secondly, i'd like to further describe my situation. I auditioned for a cover band about a month ago, nothing ever came of it. The guy putting it together had trouble finding musicians. Last night i got a call from him. He says he has a band now, and needs a drummer. It would be covers only. I don't really have any idea how the others play. It would be a weekly spot(Friday Night) at some club on the other side of town. The pay would be $25 a night. Rehearsals, semi-intense for the first week or two, and then I would only allow them one rehearsal a week. I have been in Austin for about one year and get dissapointment after dissapointment, so the exposure and what i call "gig-practice" would definitely do some good for me. I will most likely take the gig for the exposure. I just thought this would be a thread that could benefit many of us.

Normaly i go by this method of deciding:

1. Will i learn from the experience-by the music, the musicians, the style, etc.?

2. Will it be a LOT of fun?

3. Will I receive a fair amount of money?

4. Will this increase my networking?

5. Is this going to provide positive exposure?

 

Any one or preferably a combination, and i usually accept.

 

Any one or combination

[DrummerCafe]

I think in your situation you are making the right choice. I too have been frustrated from time to time and would take gigs that I knew would get me some exposure.

 

Here's a few more thoughts:

 

1) When you say exposure ... make sure it's exposure for the right people. If your goal is to play fulltime, then getting exposure at a biker bar is probably not worth your time.

 

2) There is something to be said about playing ... period. If you are stuck at home and need to be playing with other humans, then I would possibly ignore my first point; just go have some fun and play.

 

I do think that we as musicians, desiring to reach higher levels in our playing and/or wanting to be pro or semi-pro need to make wise decisions. I have given my time and talent to bands for over 6 months, only to be totally disallusioned and frustrated. The band breaks up and all I have is a few bucks in my pocket (very few) and over 6 months of rehearsal time spent working on originals. What a waste! In these cases, I personally didn't need the experience. Everyone in the band was below me musically, and all I learned were originals. How is this going to help me with another gig? It isn't. If I had spent 6 months on cover tunes ... that's a different story. I would have a strong library of tunes that I could play and could have immediately gone out and gotten more work.

 

I hate to say that I have made this mistake more than once in my life. I share it with you all to hopefully keep you from doing the same mistake. If you have a day job to feed your family, that is different perhaps. I made these mistakes as a PROFESSIONAL .... which is NOT so good.

 

No matter if you are young or old, professional or novice, making good choices in life is very important. You have to evaluate what is the most important to you and have your priorities set. Family, Money, Fun, Career, Experience, Growth, etc.; all valid priorities, but each of us must decide in what order to place them.

 

One final note, if you ever take a gig like the one Robert is considering, I recommend that you set some BOUNDARIES. If you have not heard the band, know the musicians, etc., you need to leave yourself an OUT just incase things don't go like you had hoped. Setting a healthy boundary with a band (or people) will probably save everyone involved a lot of grief. In Robert's case, I would let the band leader know that you would be interested in playing with the band, but that you can't make a long term commitment ... or that you plan to work with other groups as well. This gives the leader the opportunity to find a different drummer if he wants long term player or if he/her simply can't work with your boundary. It's better to find this out BEFORE you get involved with your time and talent.

 

I live by this now, and it has saved me a lot of grief. In fact, I'm working with a Country artist (I don't like country music really) in which I have made no long term commitments, but have also agreed to rehearse for free. I just don't do that anymore ... but in this case, the artist is opening up for some major acts that I want to have exposure with. Hopefully this will get me in front of the right people ... so I'm willing to gamble a bit. The artist knows that I have other commitments and that I play fulltime ... so we have a good understanding and boundaries. The lack of pay in the rehearsals will be made up on the gigs which are definites.

 

Just my thoughts .... for what it's worth.

[rlhubley]

Hey Bart,

That's great advice and info. It really is nice to have someone with your experience here to answer questions and pass out advice. I sure do appreciate you sharing your knowledge, and spending time here to do so!

I really like what you set about setting boundaries. Could you expand on that some?

[sidereal]

Take the gig.

 

Everything that Bart says is correct. Let me add some thoughts. It sounds like you're in the position where you need to get seen and heard. There's no better way to get your name out there than being in a cover band. It's not so much that people coming to the show are going to see you and have it lead to something (although that's true as well, and people have offered me gigs while I'm taking a leak in the bathroom on break!), it's more that you'll get your name out there from musicians who hear that you're in a gigging band. That's key. So you're building your resume, you're meeting musicians, you're gigging, you're getting experience, you're getting comfortable. Others will recognize that. It's a lot easier when you're in a big city and when your band is doing well. In these cases, a cover band scene is very incestuous, where all the city's top live musicians know and play with everyone else and bands form and change from this gene pool every 9 months or so. Being in a cover band is probably the best way to get your name out there.

 

The major thing you have to do to make all this work: Kick ass. let me say that again. Kick ass. Play your best every night. That doesn't mean overplay and give 'em your best chops. That means propel the band. When the guitarist plays a solo, make him sound good. When a singer goes from the verse to the chorus, make him sound like a rock star. There's one drummer on the same circuit as me with phenominally better chops than me who I've been offered to replace twice in the past 6 months. His skills are far superior to mine, but he's too busy, doesn't think about song structure, and doesn't understand the concept of "unit." Remember how important this stuff is and you'll do fine.

 

Thank god again for annonymity. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[DrummerCafe]

Originally posted by sidereal:

Thank god again for annonymity.

 

Maybe I should consider getting a new nickname!

 

For being Bartman, I sure haven't kept my identity concealed very well.

Batman would have done a far superior job! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif

[rlhubley]

Thanks to everyone for the friendly advice. I have decided to accept the offer and set a boundary. I hope it goes well, and increases my networking. This leads me to a new thread...

[djarrett]

I am in total agreement with Bart ... I too do not usually play/rehearse for free, but the artist I currently play for has some sweet spots opening for some artists occasionally and in those cases, typically I do rehearse for free.

 

There are occasions when a group of guys are getting together to play and they are folks that I really like to play with ... either for the love of playing, or because I am challenged by them. If we are doing some playing for some local exposure ... and it does not involve pay, but is not a total inconvenience, I usually will take exception and play for no pay.

 

I think we all have to love the playing that we do. I think we cannot completely limit ourselves to completely steadfast rules ... if we are to take into consideration ... loving to play, learning, growing, exposure, etc.

 

Many times in Nashville (although I do not take many of these type of gigs anymore) I would not end the night with any pay ... by the time I factored in my time, gas and effort. I ended up "paying to play!"

 

You just have to use your best judgement sometimes.

 

DJ

[rlhubley]

Well, i played with these guys yesterday. I had committed to doing 2 rehearsals and the gig on Friday. After about 10 minutes, I came to the conclusion that this band was not a project I wanted to work with(in laymen's terms, they BLEW and SUCKED at the same time). They weren't really that bad, but I just didn't like the way things were run. Plus, they were a bit sloppy, and I don't want my name to be part of a sloppy group, might bring a bad rep. So, I took Bart's advice. We were scheduled to do 3 hours of rehearsal, after about 1.5 hrs, I asked about the gig on Friday. They told me that it wasn't going to happen. I told them, "let's take a break", after which I pulled the bandleader aside and told that honestly, I wasn't digging it. I was very straightforward with him and he understood and was thankful that I took the time to come check out the band.

I'm telling you all this because it was a great learning experience. Bart's advice about boundaries was applied here. I found that because of the boundary, i had no problems with politely leaving the band.

[DrummerCafe]

What a GREAT story man! Sorry the band didn't work out, but we have all learned something from your experience. I am STILL learning about boundaries, how they work and how to apply them. Sometimes I do well, and other times ... well, I fail ... miserably.

 

Here's a recent boundary story that was good and band. This country artist that I've been working with is looking for a new keyboard player. The piano player just isn't cutting it musicaly, but he's a great guy. Monday night I and the rest of the band agreed to drive over to this OTHER keyboard players house to audition him. This guy could play, but boy did he have and attitude. He OVER played BIG TIME and we could tell very quickly that he was one of these "$25 and all the beer" players. We were courteous to him and didn't say much; you couldn't get a word in any way! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Forgot to mention that this guy has a home studio and insisted that I not finish setting up in the same room with everyone else. He wanted me to move into his drum room! LOL I told him that this was an audition/rehearsal ... but he still insisted. So I moved my kick and snare, the only drums I brought because it was an AUDITION for HIM, into his "drum room". What a joke! I wanted to go off on him and leave right then, but I held my tongue.

 

The guy hadn't prepared any of the songs that we do, and want us to play songs that he knew and we didn't. He played a song for us off a CD in efforts to have US learn it. Remember, we are audtioning HIM. I made a few notes and we proceed to run the tune down. Now this song had all kinds of groove changes, music figures, and went to half-time for the Bridge. I counted off the tune only to have this guy stop me and tell me that he WANTED me to hit crashes on 2 and 4 during the Intro ... even though the original didn't do this. I kept my tongue and agreed to do this. We played the song down ... and I nailed it. The rest of the band later told me that they were amazed that I held my tongue, and that I nailed the song ... even though the rest of them fumbled their way. This guy wanted to run another "new" tune and we told him that we had to split because it was getting late.

 

Final thoughts: I failed terribly in that I wasted my time with all of this, and I should have known better ... but now I do. The band set a good boundary, a little late mind you, that removed us from the situation with grace. I guess I did well to hold my tongue and not offer up any words that could be held against me. I smiled and said, "whatever you want man". I scored points with the band by holding my tongue (they said they would have gone off on this guy) AND for nailing the tune that was being used to "stump the band".

 

Sorry for the long discourse. Maybe I should write a book? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

 

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[rlhubley]

I dig the discourse, it's a great teaching tool!

[ModernDrummer]

Yes, I agree that it's harder than folks think to put a band together. Just 'cause you have a bunch of guys that can play instruments, even if they're excellent players, doesn't necessarily mean you'll have a band.

 

It's one reason why I like hitting jam nights. You can get a lot of ideas about attitudes and working the specific individuals without even going through the audition process. I know for myself, I've conversed with several musicians that, while excellent players of their respective instruments, I would just as soon not work with. Certainly not in a full time band. What is that anyway? You have chops so you have AN attitude? I concede that being able to play with confidence and 'attitude', letting out your soul if you will, is a necessary thing to good musicians. But to my thinking, there's a difference between having 'attitude' and having 'AN attitude'.

 

Around this area, musicians having AN attitude really seems prevalent. Perhaps that so in other areas as well. Where you live, perhaps. But having AN attitude I know keeps a lot of excellent local musicians from really getting anywhere. They're good, real good, excellent. Mega-star capabilities. Yet, things never work out because anyone joining up with them knows it's going to be a constant battle. So, they may even be well known around here, or have been for 20 years. But, 20 years later they're STILL playing the exact same clubs. Sadly, for about the same money.

 

I personally think a lot of the audition process can even be handled over the phone. Instead of hauling equipment all over creation for audtions that prove fruitless. Sure, you may not want to play for an audtion over the phone, but you can sure talk over ideas and philosophies. See if you're even thinking in the same direction. If you're not, then what's the point? The band is never getting anywhere anyway, in that present personification.

 

I always think about the Beatles. From what I've gotten on Beatle-mania history over the years, Stu and Pete were actually better drummers than Ringo. But Ringo 'fit'. He was that final push, that spark, that catalyst that pushed the band over the edge and into legend. So, was it the genuis of Lennon and McCartney that made the Beatles? Or was it that last little spark with Ringo. Or does it maybe ALL have to meld together?

 

I don't think most bands, most musicians, ever even think about it. They learn their instrument, let's say exceptionally well, then think "Hey, I GOTTA make it, 'cause I'm so good". Or "Hey, I'm the LEAD guitarist, or LEAD singer or whatever and I'm killer, so what difference does it make WHO we get as the drummer?"

 

LOL, makes a LOT of difference. Rush had an album out. It did well. But they sure didn't become "R-U-S-H" until some lanky polyrhythmic nightmare joined the band, LOL. Who ALSO happened to read abstract literature and poetry. Who ALSO happened to write lyrics. Guess it wouldn't have matter WHO Rush had as the drummer, eh? Or Led Zepplin?

 

To me, it ALL has to fit. Talent, personna, personalities and comaraderie, if that band, your band, ever has a chance to get to the top.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

J.B.