DerekDrums Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 Is anyone else going to be participating in this? I just found out we have a Guitar Center a few hours from here in Indianapolis, so I'm going to sign up and see where it goes from there. Is anyone else going to be in this that is on this board? Anyone who has participated in ones before this, can you guys describe how it works a little more? All I know is that first prize is a Jeep and a Roland V-Custom set, and that they have a 5 piece kit setup with 5 or 6 cymbal stands. Can anyone else provide a little more info on this whole thing, or have any tips? Derek http://www.mp3.com/DustinDerek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 I've participated twice...I think it's a great experience...you'll be surprised at the talent that shows up to these contests...it was especially good here in LA. Last year a little kid won (I think he was 9, can't remember)...my brother shredded himself into the semi-rounds but "Drum Solos" aren't really his thing, he didn't work anything out...just improvised. Best advice I can give is to be really prepared...write a good solo that displays some chops but more importantly make it musical...also you might want to leave a bit of room in the middle of your solo where you can add something you heard one of the other drummers do that you think you can do as well or better. Regardless of how far you get (or don't get), it's well worth doing IMO and can be a lot of fun with the right attitude. I recommend EVERY drummer do it at least once. My nephew had almost no chops to speak of when he did it, he was really nervous but I think it taught him an important lesson and he's improved because of it. http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaddabout Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 I've thought about doing this, but I really feel this is geared for younger drummers. This is supposed to be for amateurs. I went and picked up a tape of their finals, and sure enough they had three young kids against five adults. I think a 12-year-old won. Scary to think of all those kids with chops. My advice for any solo drummer is to pick one or two grooves and solo over them inside and out. Try to think of a simple (but hip!) idea that lends itself to fill phrasings that best suit your playing. If you don't swing, for sure don't try to do that in a solo. Three things I think are over-done in drum contests: - Funk beats - Sixteenth-note double bass beats - Lately, ostinatos with the left foot playing clave' on a cowbell All of these are really cool, but it gets old fast when everyone is ripping off the same Dennis Chambers lick or Horatio Hernandez routine. To be competitive, I encourage you to look for something new, while maintaining essential drumming solo standards: always keep good time, show off your chops, show good taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 I agree with you Gaddabout...but I think the best thing about this contest is it's always kids competing with adults that they can learn from. Kids learning from seasoned adult drummers...adult drummers learning a thing or two from the kids...I think it's really cool. I wish I could be there to see Derek's solo...and MAYBE even show him a thing or two http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMSDrumKing Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 Is there a place where I might be able to listen to some of the previous contestants solos or those of the winners? I am really interested in Drum Off, but I really don't think I have the chops to be a real competator in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 Hey, you're a fellow Hoosier! LMAO! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif As for the Drum Off, since there's a couple of Guitar Centers around Chicagoland, I may go to watch and see some fellow drummers show their stuff. But I wouldn't compete. For me, I personally don't believe in them. But I wholeheartedly support and believe in my drumming brothers and sisters that DO believe in them. But, how do you compare who's 'best'? Example. You and I are in a drum competition at the Guitar Center in Indy. Three 'professional' Indy area drummers, tons of experience, years of teaching, etc., etc., etc. are judges and decide YOU won. Cool, you're elated, I'm humbled. But out of the audience step three other drummers, Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa and Neil Peart and proclaim I'M best (Oh, there's a fantasy! LMAO! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif). Who's right? The three drum teachers with lots of stuff hangin' on the wall to 'prove' their capabilities at judging? Or three guys that have the respect and admiration of millions of fans for decades, many of those fans drummers themself? See? No way to honestly judge. IMHO, it's just too subjective. Maybe you look better than I do (you PROBABLY do, BTW!). Maybe you do a clave better than I, or a jazz rhythm (I'm basically a Rock drummer), and these judges like Jazz better than Rock. I believe in, and have participated in, drum exhibitions. Where everyone that participates is acknowledged. Of course, the listeners all have their preferences. But no one is awarded 'Best'. And in case you're wondering, I have the same sentiments about beauty contests. Miss America, that sort of thing. Fifty beautiful, high class talented ladies, and this ONE is the MOST beautiful? Baloney. LOL, oddly enough, they almost never pick the same one I do. And does that make the rest of them 'Losers'? It does to some people's thinking. In some cases, it could even affect their future career or job opportunities. And if you ever notice, most of the really big names also may participate in exhibitions, not typically in subjective competitions. The W.F.D thing, a sore spot for some reason with many drummers, that's at least substantive. Who is 'best' (fastest) at that can be measured in a quantitive manner. It's not subject. But other competitions, too open to opinion and debate, in my mind. Just some thoughts. J.B. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 Well J.B., I don't disagree with you, I also never pick the guy that ends up winning...just more proof that no one was necessarily best...my brother didn't feel slighted at all, he had a lot of fun... I don't think the contest should be about winning as much as pushing yourself to perform to the best of your ability as though it was about winning. For example...I don't think it's AS important to professional basketball players that they win a trophy...just that they performed greatly against incredible odds. That's what it was about for me...I feel I'm a stronger person all around because of the Drum Competition experience. I'm sure DJ can say the same about Drum Corps...I was never part of "The Blue Devils" or anything but I do have very fond memories of Marching Band Competition for the same reasons mentioned above. Some of the guys that take part really have the wrong attitude and are there to "blow guys away" or whatever...doesn't have to spoil it for everyone though. Have fun Derek. http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaddabout Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 MD, I'm somewhere in between. I don't like to see drummers get competitive, because it supports the notion that there is a "best" drummer out there, or that technique is always elevated over musicality. There isn't a "best" drummer, no matter how much I believe Vinnie Colaiuta is the greatest drummer ever, and would blow away anyone in head-to-head competiton. :::sheepishgrin::: At the same time, I feel the drumming community is gradually losing the aspect of skill, as the music gradually loses the demands of independence and control. I'll support just about anything that encourages drummers to woodshed and clean up their technique. I certainly made my longest strides as a drummer in high school, when older drummers would make fun of me or challenge me. I set out to prove them wrong and embarass them, but ended up on an entirely different journey than I anticipated. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Also, I think anything that exposes drummers to other drummers of equal or greater skill is must-have experience. It can sometimes be a real eye-opener, particularly for those young punks who think they know it all. (I'm shaking my cane at you punks, you just can't see me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 I almost did it last year ...maybe next. I'd like to see how far I could get. I'm not prepared this year but I did write about 20 pages of solo material this spring that I havn't gotten around to practicing yet. I think they would let a kid with marginal chops go further than an old jew like myself. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaddabout Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 Felix, it should be noted that the kids that advance in these things typically have chops to spare. I plopped in the 1999 Drum Off video after reading this thread, and the only kid there who didn't have blazing singles was this pre-teen (who, in my mind, had the best time and played the cleanest solo of the day). I'm still waiting for someone to completely rip-off Terry Bozio's solo material. Maybe it's too challenging, and it's hard to compensate for not having his humongous rig, but it's infitely more musical and interesting than hearing one more poorly-played David Garibaldi lick. Come to think of it, I might just do this Drum Off thing this year ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 I'll eat those brats for breakfast and do it with pinache! felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 Steve - I absolutely agree with you that those basketball players don't play like they do for the trophy. LOL, they play for those MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACTS! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Gaddabout - And I have to agree that the competitions serve a purpose IF they do get folks to work on their techniques and performance. Which as you said, often they do. To me, just as long as it helps develop a positive attitude and spirit of comaraderie. Unfortunately, sometimes it also has the opposite effect http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/frown.gif And of course, the greatest thing of it for anyone is that they challenge themself. See how far they can push themself and their performance. IMO, that not only is of great benefit to the individual, but to the listeners as well. And for me, just listening to and watching guys like Vinnie or Neil or Buddy or whomever pushes me. I've developed this "I wonder if I can do that?" philosphy hearing guys with that kind of talent. And see I wholeheartedly believe that "What one man can do, another man can do", I find myself working, however slowly, and emulating them. That's why I derive such a great source of inspiration from virtually every drummer I hear or talk to. ThanX to everyone for that! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif This message has been edited by ModernDrummer on 08-08-2001 at 01:30 AM If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekDrums Posted August 8, 2001 Author Share Posted August 8, 2001 I'm basically doing this for the experience, I doubt I have any chance at even winning the first preliminary at the local store, heh. I'm trying to put together a nice solo demonstrating alot of stuff. Unfortunatly, I'm a funk drummer, so I do alot of funk, I'll have to avoid that. I'm going to be sure to include an intro with ghost notes, and then go into hi-hat syncopation and use a few rudiments and things, then break into 3/4 and I want to stick in 7/8 somewhere along there, and then I want to be sure to make a point of me being ambidextrious, probably some ride/hi-hat combo work and alternating between open and crossover, and things like that to make that point. And I want to put in multiple styles, reggae, latin jazz, and latin are 3 I'm sure of, I'll probably throw in some jazz and fusion, maybe do some work with the snare off. I'm trying to think of as much stuff I can do in 5 minutes to get a nice solid solo. I guess I may have to write two, because if I'd happen to win a preliminary, I'm sure they'd have the same judges at the finals for the local store too, so I wouldn't want to repeat the same solo, so this is going to take a little work. Any suggestions from anyone, or any ideas on what the judges really look for in the solos? I know visuals are almost just as important, I don't think I'm going to be twirling my stick or anything that reminds me of the 80s, but I might consider some things, hitting cymbals upside down and doing Carter's/Cobham's cross-over technique on the crashes. Any more suggestions from anyone? I'm starting to piece together a solo, it's just a matter of what I'm sure I want in it and what I'm sure I don't, because it's probably going to be alot of improv. Thanks again, Derek http://www.mp3.com/DustinDerek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaddabout Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Sounds like fun, Derek. When you get it all written out, maybe you can post on the web. Hey, and maybe you can record it for us, too! I'll get to work on the DerekDrums t-shirts. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif In passing, I always thought the stuff Omar Hakim did over a 6/8 vamp (check out the end of "Techno" on Scofield's Still Warm) would be really cool to expand on in a solo. Also, one tip, as an experienced watcher of these events: attempt to keep the left-foot hi-hat going at all times. Can't always do it if you're doing double-bass work or something else, but it's usually a good idea to remind everyone you're still keeping time while doing all the other stuff. I tend to prefer quarters and eighths over half-time, but that's a personal preference. It always bugged me to see drummers at these things playing lots of notes without demonstrating where the pulse is. It seemed to me the drummers that didn't do this didn't go on to the next level, either. Have fun, and keep us posted on your progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekDrums Posted August 8, 2001 Author Share Posted August 8, 2001 Hehe, I'm not going to write out the solo, just record it, and listen to it a ton. I notice when I record songs with my brother, I listen to it 4-5 times a day and say "I wish I would have known the song better, I would have put 'blah blah' here and there". So if I get the solo recorded, I'll know it better than I did before, and know what I want. So I'm going to figure out a nice little 5 minute solo, record it, and study it day in and day out, finding stuff to add or take out, and then rerecord it to how I want it, and listen to it night and day. That should help. Thanks for the hi-hat advice, I've been doing that alot lately, even while double bassing. I have a little trouble when it comes to the harder complex single footed bass drum patterns while riding, so I'll have to work into that a little better, but that is a great tip, I'm glad you said something about that. I haven't really done it much because I like my hi-hats to be pretty close in it's open position, so when I step with my feet, you can't hear it well at all. I'm getting my new rubber clutches (and Puresound 16 strand EQ snares!) tomorrow, so I'll have to try out some new positions. My felts on there are the same ones that came with this set 5 1/2 years ago, and so they are shot. Maybe this will improve things. Anyway, great tip once again, I'll start improving that starting tomorrow! Anyone else have more tips? Thanks again, Derek http://www.mp3.com/DustinDerek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 I would sign up for it, but the problem is I'm not very good. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Do a clean one handed buzz roll while playing something out of "portraits of rhythm" on your feet and with your right hand flip everyone off while twirling (bataan style)...then to finish it off...turn around and moon everybody. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekDrums Posted August 8, 2001 Author Share Posted August 8, 2001 Hmm.... that sounds like that could be very workable. I'll have to find a spot in one of the patterns I'm doing to be able to loosen my belt, and unbutton, so the moon comes right away after standing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 LOL... YAH RIGHT!!!!!! felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekDrums Posted August 8, 2001 Author Share Posted August 8, 2001 Hehe, I'm sure stranger things have been done. I have the solo mostly put together, I'm doing some Latin, Latin Jazz, Reggae, Fusion, Funk, and even a little bit of speedy double bassing. I also have odd timed stuff (3/4, 7/8) and put it some little things like buzz rolls, hi-hat syncopation, beat displacement, pauses, 4 stroke rolls, 3 stroke rolls, single stroke rolls, ghost notes, offtime bell patterns, etc... Any advice on anything else I should throw in there? Thanks, Derek http://www.mp3.com/DustinDerek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Sounds like you've got everything covered http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif...the Speedy double bass thing is actually a good idea...not because it's "wow, cool" or anything but because a lot of drummers in the competition will be doing it. http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Yes, Metric modulation Linear Playing (if your funk is hip-you will be doing this already) Odd groupings as much as possible-then double those...I also suggest over the bar groupings between kick and whatever. Avoid quads unless you are making fun of someone elses playing. Play some fast swiss trips on the kick and 3 and 4 stroke ruffs as well. Those are nice for call and response patterns with the hands. Don't twirl unless you can do it between at least 3 fingers. As much displacement of voices as possible. Don't cross stick anything slower than a sextuplet. I would make sure to put in inverted diddles in the odd times...then modulate them into the different time signatures. Double those now and then as well. I'm also partial to Biones and Tumbau ostinatos for filler shit. Then throw the time out and "surface" for a finale'. This is what you would be up against if I was in the room. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekDrums Posted August 9, 2001 Author Share Posted August 9, 2001 Steve, yeah, I'm not really a double bass player, I just use double bass to play things I can't with one foot, like little patterns. But on this, I do some speedy double bassing, using my left foot for the left side double bass pedal and the hi-hats, so the hi-hats are keeping the beat with it to, so I do some hi-hat choking during it too. Felix, sounds pretty cool, you should try competing in it sometime, it'd be a cool experience. I'm waiting for a call from Guitar Center now to see if they'll mail me the forms so I don't have to spend 2 hours to drive down there. Hopefully they'll decide to do that, that'll make things MUCH easier. I will be entering this competition for sure, one way or another. I added some new stuff to the solo a minute ago when I was going over what I liked so far, I think I'm going to put a kind of better march pattern with the one I have now. The one I have in there now is more of ghost notes with both hands keeping 16th while I'm doing regular snare hits, and then that goes into to a quiet buzz roll with regular snare hits, and then into a huge buzz roll, and a stop. Instead of stopping there, I'm thinking about breaking into a more full march pattern, kind of like Derrick McKenzie's drumming on Revolution 1993 from Jamiroquai, except a little more complex and faster. I think that should fill that up a little more. I want to put in more things concerning hand speed, since I have some reasonable hand speed, and it seems that alot of the judges look for alot of hand speed. I have some examples of it in there, like in the single/triple/four stroke rolls, and at the very end I go into a big roll. That should be enough for hand speed. Oh, and I'm also putting in the syncopated hi-hat patterns and things. What do you see as the judges actually looking for mainly in a solo performance? And also, I have 4 times, where I come to a complete stop and change styles or tempos noticably on purpose, because of the groove following it has to be at a different tempo for it to sound the way I want it. You don't think this is going to seem odd, like that it's not flowing together well or anything? I can't really think of anything in general for any of the tempo changes to make it smoother, that's why I have the breaks. Do you think this will affect the judging of the solo? As you can see, I've never been to a drumming competition, heh. Thanks again for all your help! Derek http://www.mp3.com/DustinDerek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 And also, I have 4 times, where I come to a complete stop and change styles or tempos noticably on purpose, Yeah, I think that's the best way to do it...any other kind of transition would probably come across as accidental or sloppy...doing one transition as a gradual tempo change might be cool though. http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaddabout Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 One way to change tempos (almost) seemlessly is to play odd configurations over one time, and morph them into the odd meter. Or maybe play a single stroke roll while playing some sort of syncopated part with the hi-hat and bass that relate to the new time signature you're moving into. I think there's always a way to work these things out, you just have to be patient and let them develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Derek, Sorry, I almost forgot the most IMPORTANT part! If you do participate, BEST OF LUCK to you. And to any other fellow drummers taking part! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif J.B. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekDrums Posted August 9, 2001 Author Share Posted August 9, 2001 Thanks, ModernDrummer! I may consider trying some kind of tempo change or odd timing. I was listening to this great fusion pattern I heard on the Carter video from a clip of his old fusion band, Secrets. It might fit perfectly as a transition from two of the parts that won't flow right. The other 3 or 4 places will have breaks though, unless I find some better transition, I'll have to mess with odd timing, gradually changing tempo, or a combo of both! Thanks for the suggestions! I'm trying to figure out a few more key factors that they'll be looking for. Many solos I've heard have been just everything flowing together at once sticking to the same idea. On my solo, there are complete style and tempo changes, and it sounds more like a collection of different grooves put one after the other. Is this going to be a bad thing, or is this common for contest type solos? Thanks, Derek http://www.mp3.com/DustinDerek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 I would like to hear the different styles and meters segue into each other without stopping (metric modulation). If you stop...stop in time. That would be impressive to me. It would take more work on your part though through practice/study/arrangment etc. Good Luck, I'm sure you will do fine. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekDrums Posted August 11, 2001 Author Share Posted August 11, 2001 Yeah, I'm going to try to find a little better way to blend styles together a little better, instead of stops and then going into a completely different style or tempo. On the 7/8 groove, I'm going to be stop/starting a few times in time, but I'd like to make it kind of predictable, I completely pause, kind of to throw people off on when I'm going to kick back in. And then, near the end, I jazz it up and slow it down, and that turns into a slow jazz pattern that leads into the outro of the solo. I can't wait, I'm going to go sign up next weekend. My brother is in Chicago right now, but he'll be taking me next weekend, because he's coming back Sunday night. I'm going to pick up some new Pro-Mark 5A sticks while I'm there, so it won't be a 4 hour round trip just to sign a sheet of paper. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif If anyone else has anymore advice or anything, let me know. Right now, I'm trying to think what would be visually flashy without looking cheesy. I'm not going to be spinning any sticks or anything, that's pretty cheesy, but I mean things like playing on the cymbal's bottom side, or doing Carter's (or Billy Cohbam's) cross over technique on cymbals or things like that. Even things like using traditional grip and matched grip back and forth (which is what I do during this march pattern I do during the solo) are flashy, so I'm trying to find out other things that aren't necissarily purposely flashy, but come off looking that way, because it seems like now, entertainment is getting to be just as big as skill... Derek http://www.mp3.com/DustinDerek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuthumper Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 hey derek good luck man,just wanted to add some input,alot of people are saying about time signatures and stuff which is all important but one thing i think everybody has failed to pick up on and that can make or break a solo is the ending. my teacher pointed this out to me. i mean u can have a great solo and have a pants ending then it can ruin a solo. i mean a simple crash at the end maybe ok if it works with the solo and doesn't spoil it, but u should think about it, like slowing down and lowering the level and finishing or perhaps getting louder and have a big climaxing ending. jope this helps you. stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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