Please enlighten me on SOFTWARE

[Ray_dup6]

I'm, or rather, the band is starting to develop an interest in using the homestudio/recording software for PC's. I know some of them by name, (ie, Cakewalk, Acid Pro, Cubase, N-track, etc.) and that's about it.

 

Are they all about the same in functionality?

If not what's the difference in them? Why one over another?

Which one has the easiest learning curve?

So many questions !!!

 

Are there any former threads on the subject? If so, please direct me there.

Any articles/reviews on them showing the features/pros/cons of each?

 

Besides my band needing the info, I have people asking me too. Since I'm into computers & music both, they think I've got all the answers.

 

Any info/links to sites/articles etc. is greatly appreciated!!

[felix stein]

Well I have cakewalk and cubase and have goofed with ACID on occasions. I think cakewalk is easier to use but cubase has a few more plugin's and HUI options...to my knowledege. Cubase also works well with Motu products.

 

I am going to get into protools this fall I think.

 

But you might just want to buy a motu interface and use the bundled audio desk software. I don't know. This is my "plane jane" assesment. Do you have an adat, are you into midi? Do you have nice mixing gear already? These are all factors to be considered.

 

Cakewalk sounds great though...I think even better than cubase. But then there are other dedicated systems like Paris Pro. What is your budget.

[Ray_dup6]

Felix,

 

At this point in time, we're equipment virgins. The proverbial shopping cart is empty. NO adat, not into midi yet, and no mixer yet.

 

At this point, just looking at various options. Trying to determine what to buy first, second, ......& so on. And will purchase #1 affect purchase #2, and so forth down the line.

 

As far as budget......well, we operate on the save/beg purchase plans. As far as equipment goes, I usually buy the mid-range stuff, in both price & functionality. Each purchase will be as we can afford it, but knowing nothing about the software, I wasn't sure if a particular app would dictate what other type of equipment to buy.

 

Right now I'm buying a few mics. My next purch. will probably be a mixer. Guitarist already has a PA system.

[felix stein]

Then get a studio in a box...those things are great. Roland makes a good one...I had the first series of VS 880's...there are so much better now!

 

burn a cd

 

have a real studio master and take care of pressings

 

save your money for a version of photoshop and do your own graphix

 

just my 2 cents

[DrummerCafe]

I'm curious as to what it is you are wanting to do with all of this. Are you wanting to make an album or a demo? What are your goals? Answering some of these questions will help determine what to buy first, etc.

 

You're talking a lot about software; is this because you have everything else?

 

You're going to need mic-pres, mics, monitors, power amp, etc., even if you get the latest greatest software program with all the "lights, bells, and whistles."

 

I think Felix's suggestion about the Roland VS 880 is going to be the best for you at this point.

 

If you are wanting to get ADAT's, you can still network them with your computer using a specially made PCI card. I personally use Cubase VST and ADATs so I can record to digital tape OR hard disc, beaming stuff back and forth for editing.

 

As far as what's better and why ... that's too much to type! LOL

 

If you search around on the Internet, you'll be able to find reviews on these various hardware and software items. Periodicals like ELECTRONIC MUSICIAN, MIX and others are great sources for information. You can probably go to your local library to view this magazines; they may be on microfiche or microfilm.

 

All of this is a BIG investment, even if you plan to only get "mid-grade" gear ... it all adds up. Don't be in a hurry to get quick answers. Anything we tell you is just our opinions; you still need to look over the facts, features and specifications of each product to determine what would work best for your set-up. I know that ELECTRONIC MUSICIAN has had articles in the past which lay-out three packages for a Home Studio, all based on the amount of money you have. This was helpful to me when I first got started years ago. It's so overwhelming that it's hard to figure out what basic things do I need to get started, what's compatible with what, and what it is that can be added on later.

 

You're doing the right thing by posting to forums. Check out some of the other Magazine Forums here on MusicPlayer.com that have an emphasis in audio engineering and recording.

 

Again, Felix's advice was concise and to the point; do what he said if it feels right to you.

 

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[Ray_dup6]

It's so overwhelming that it's hard to figure out what basic things do I need to get started, what's compatible with what, and what it is that can be added on later.

 

Bart,

 

Yes it is overwhelming, which is why this forum was just one resource for acquiring information. The bands goal at this time, is to get a 'demo' made. Several people have heard our practice sessions & have told us to give them a CD/demo (we'd prefer a CD). They have contacts who could give us an opportunity to play live somewhere. That's it in a nutshell.

 

So then our obvious questions to ourselves were: We have computers, so what else do we need in the way of equipment? How much will it all cost? Is it more feasable to have someone do it for us because of costs involved?

Like you said, what's compatible with what? What can be added onto later?

So forth & so on.

 

This is the scenario that began our quest for knowledge. Anyway, you provided some further info I will check into, so thanks for the input.

I do appreciate it!!

 

Ray

[sidereal]

It depends on what you want to do. I have an embarassingly large degree of knowledge on this subject, but I'm also a bit biased. So here's my educated opinion...

 

Roland studios in a box are nice, but they're a bit of a dead end. You can't expand it, and the sound quality can be sub-par. But it's easy to use and portable.

 

Logic (emagic) is the best MIDI sequencer on the planet in terms of powerful features. But it's audio features can be subpar (although said to be getting better with the latest rev). It can also take a lifetime to learn properly. Imagine if you're not a guitar player and you want to learn to play the guitar and be really good at it. That's what it's like to learn Logic. It takes practice and a ton of time. Logic is a better choice if you're using Digidesign TDM hardware.

 

Digital Performer (MOTU) is probably the second best MIDI sequencer. It's audio capabilities with v3.0 are really coming along. It's not as, um, German as Logic which means it's a bit more, um, logical. MOTU is a cult though. Either you're in that world or you're not. DP and Logic seem to battle neck and neck as to which has the best feature set.

 

Cubase is powerful with MIDI and a bit easier to use then those mentioned above. But gawd that candy-ass user interface is pure cheese in my mind. Too many freaking colors. Also, the audio is atrociously dodgy, and the app can be buggy, especially on Windows.

 

Cakewalk... never used it. Never found a need to.

 

Which leaves Pro Tools... In my mind this is without a doubt the best audio software application on the planet. The thing about pro tools is it's the easiest to learn, it's designed like a console plus it has the best editing and mixing functionality out there. It's vastly superior for audio production and always has been. Unlike those mentioned above, PT is based on an audio engine, not a MIDI engine. This means the audio resolution is much higher since MIDI is limited to 128 steps in every operation (I think PT is like 1,024 steps). What this means is your automation of everything is going to be far smoother when mixing. Not only that, the editing tools are much more powerful and easy to use. Also, and this is big if you're pro or looking to go pro... the overwhelming majority of pro studios use Pro Tools software more than anything else. It opens up a much wider world. If you work on some stuff at home, you can take the sessions (on hard drive) to any studio and have them get to work on your actual sessions. It's like going from demo to finished album.

 

If you're a keyboard player, I'd suggest Logic or Digital Performer. If you're a drummer, I'd go with Pro Tools without a doubt. The audio capabilities can't be beat, and "Grid Mode" is a godsend! It's also got some nice MIDI features and the MIDI is sample accurate to the audio, unlike the others.

 

So, sorry for the blatant bias... but if I were you, I'd get a Digi 001 box (with Pro Tools LE... basically the same functionality as regular PT, but with some missing features) and get some work done rathar than wasting time in confusion.

[sidereal]

As an example, I just got a stereo MP3 file (piano and voice) from a singer-songwriter who wants me to lay down some drums. I opened Pro Tools, imported and converted the MP3 into Pro Tools, set it to (the very drummer friendly) Grid Mode, set the tempo within the application by tapping the BPM and visually sliding it to perfection, and I'm now laying drum tracks. The original was 3 1/2 minutes, but I extended it to 5 minutes, because I'm feeling the need for an end solo. Because of the editing capabilities in PT, I just looped the closing section, then tacked on the piano retard at the end, and turned it into a 5 minute song perfectly and within a few seconds. Other programs are not this powerful or easy to use. Yeehaw, it's a wonderful world!

 

I'll shut up now. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[felix stein]

So where should I buy my PT software at? Do you have the vintage compressor plugins and the lexicon reverb plugins? I would love those!

 

I'm going to run a PC and an Apple Box I've decided.

[sidereal]

Felix... you should download Pro Tools Free from digidesign.com. Play with it and see what you think. Here's a hint to get started: there's a mix window and an edit window. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

If you're ready to just go for it, get an 001. They have them at any music store.

[DrummerCafe]

There are some new OS drivers for the Cubase VST which has eliminated many of the "quirks". I'm not going to sit here and wave a Cubase banner, but it's a nice program.

 

I would agree that you should download the ProTools PC version for FREE ... the 8 channel version that is. The only down side is that ProTools SUCKS when it comes to MIDI. I have yet to find a ProTools studio in the Dallas area that can handle MIDI without crashing. It soooooooo sucks!

 

If you need MIDI, you can forget ProTools for awhile. ProTools can be quirky too ... even on MACs.

[sidereal]

I've never encountered any problems using MIDI on Pro Tools. Definitely a MIDI based sequencer (one of the other 4) is going to be more feature-packed, but I completely disagree that working with MIDI is unstable on Pro Tools. I think when you look at the whole picture, PT is far more stable than the sequencer apps. Also it's much easier to learn, which is one of the concerns of the original post. The sequencer companies battle pretty heavily to stay competitive, so they pack a bunch of gimicks with every new release in which bogs down the system.

[DrummerCafe]

I wish you were correct, but that's just not the case I've seen. Perhaps your experience has been without problem with ProTools. I can name over a dozen ProTool studios that have the MIDI issues AND when they don't use ProTools ... crash 3 or 4 times in a day! Not every day mind you. These are all MAC versions ... not PC versions I'm talking about.

 

I agree that ProTools is an incredible software package, but it's not without it's problems. Sidereal's post is the first positive claim I have ever heard from anyone regarding ProTools and MIDI. I hope there are many more to follow because I really want to use ProTools ... but not until I know without a doubt that the MIDI issue is a rare thing, as opposed to common place.

[DrummerCafe]

I talked with several pro-engineering buddies of mine regarding ProTools and MIDI. They agree that DigiDesign has basically viewed MIDI as an "after thought" when it comes to incorporating it with ProTools. The did say, however, the DigiDesign has seemed to take the MIDI thing a lot more seriously in the last update (or so) and has been vastly improved upon.

 

I am in the process of needing to upgrade my VST system, so I'm downloading the PC version of ProTools to try out for awhile. Hopefully I will be proven wrong and the MIDI interface will be just slammin' in ProTools. We'll see!

 

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[sidereal]

I am correct.

 

I'm surprised at the problems you and your assiciates are having Bart. Without knowing the situation, I can say that often the problems lie in pilot error, which can come down to any number of things running different apps in addition to PT (i.e. surfing the net, playing games), bad extension sets, wrong OS installs.... far too many things to speculate on. Pro Tools crashing 3-4 times a day is downright embarrasing. I'd suggest they go to tech support to figure out what the issues are.

 

I'm not talking about just my own experience using MIDI in Pro Tools. I collaborate with and interact with many PT users on a regular basis and I've heard of no problems. Studios in Chicago, Manhattan, New Jersey, Nashville, LA, San Francisco... they're all running smoothly. The only complaint I hear about the MIDI in Pro Tools is that its feature set is not as strong as the sequencers.

 

I'm not here to wave a Pro Tools flag. But I will tell you that the MIDI in PT (and Pro Tools itself WHEN PROPERLY CONFIGURED) is rock solid. If you've experienced otherwise, you should look into why it may be happening, cause it ain't the app.

[sidereal]

Whadayaknow, we're on Drum Talk at the same time. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

I just saw your second message after I posted a reply to your first one. Yeah, MIDI was an afterthought prior to 5.0. When 5.0 was released it added a sequencer to it. That was nearly 2 years ago.

 

Get ready for a very stripped down feature set moving from VST to Pro Tools. It just isn't as powerful with MIDI as Cubase is. But to say it's unstable is completely incorrect.

[mojosaur]

Here is my suggestion.....rather than get all the gear, learn how to use, and then do music......spend some money and HIRE someone who already knows what they are doing. Concentrate on your music and try not to get too sidetracked with big technical high learning curve problems-- believe me, I know from experience....

[humannoyed]

Since this drum talk and we are talking software, what midi sequencers have the cool drum edit grid that Steinberg had back years ago when I owned one of their pre-Cubase programs (do they still have that feature)? I really liked the velocity bars on the bottom that you could drag up or down. What other grid editors have that feature?

hum