Anybody know the current situation on the two drum magazine editors? editors?

[bb thomas]

Andy D. of Drum! magazine has made yet a second post today at evan's board under the topic World's Fastest Drum Editor. Nothing yet from Ron Spagnardi of MD. Stay Tuned!!! "As the World's Fastest Drum Editor Turns."

[bb thomas]

Latest: Evan's Board Admin. bans all WFD threads except "The World's Fastest Drum Editor" with Andy D. of Drum! comments. Could this be setting the stage for Mr. Spagnardi to counter reply? I would not be surprised if someone from MD came forward.

[vinnie c.]

bb, what I read is that the admin. is allowing no more then 2 threads of w,f,d, at a time on the front board.

[bb thomas]

really! why is that? did he leave World's Fastest Drum Editor? Has anyone from MD appeared to clarify Mr. Spagnardi's editorial or his position on all this?

[vinnie c.]

Maybe we should email Modern Drummer and let Ron know what's going on. I'm sure he knows, but theres a chance that he doesn't. Maybe we should ask him to go on both boards,Evans and music players

[bb thomas]

I am not sure Mr. Spagnardi knows "what is going on?" Did you read his editorial? He started it by asking "when did drumming become an athletic event?" Can I say DCI 25 years ago, duh! I would love to see Mr Spagnardi's reply or debate or even a contest, but I will not post over at evan's. I think he ought to come on here, this is where the two editorials are. I know Andy d. is already over there. Do you have Mr. Spagnardi's email address? I hate to ask this but do you think he knows what email is? How would someone who didn't know about Athletic drumming (DCI,WGI,WFD) know there is a thread at Evan's called "World's Fastest Drum Editor" with his competition's eiditor on it? I don't think he is that intouch. He should be! but if he was he would never have written the editorial in the first place!

[SoundzapS]

It sure does sound like Spagnardi is behind the times. I find that quite amazing. He should know what it takes to be up there with some of the scores that I have read. anyone knowing a slight amount of drumming knows what it takes to get there. I would think that he would have quite a bit of respect for this WFD stuff. I can understand that he may not want to see drumming turn into some kind of sport. but the competition of it, is not new, just a new name. There has been Battling of the Drums for years.

Get with it Spagnardi, and at least let us hear from you.

Drum Magazine seems to be more up to date.

[bb thomas]

Is it possible to send this entire thread to Modern Drummer to see what their reply is? Someone said Mr. Spagnardi had stepped down and there was a new editor, but still it would be cool to get their reply. Maybe the new editor could battle Andy d.

[Ron MD]

Guys:

 

Glad to see that this subject has stirred up so much controversy. Its interesting, after reading Andy Doerschuks slightly more restrained comments here, how much we actually agree rather than differ.

Obviously, theres nothing at all wrong with working towards developing sufficient speed, power, endurance, and control, as part of an effort to become a good player. Solid technique helps you to express your musical ideas more effectively. That applies for any musical instrument.

However, placing such a strong emphasis on the importance of speed, by virtue of these "extreme sports drumming" endeavors, over time, groove, musical sensitivity, stylistic interpretation, touch and articulation, listening, and a musical approach to soloing, to name a few items good drummers need to be concerned with, mis-prioritizes what we need to strive for.

As Andy has stated in his comments made here, "You shouldnt believe that speed is your one and only key to success, because its not." The marvelous technical skills of players like Buddy, Louie, Dave Weckl, Steve Smith, and Dennis Chambers, are only one small part of what made them great players.

In regards to drum corps, its obvious that corps drumming is a totally different endeavor from set playing. Corps drumming is structured to be competitive, and corps players are not necessarily looking to achieve the same goals as set players. Even here, though, pure speed is far from the only concern.

As far as the infamous drum battles of years ago, I personally saw many of them. Interestingly enough, Buddy once told me that both he and Gene always felt they were "silly," designed primarily to appeal to the non-drumming audience.

To those who have pointed towards MDs "Undiscovered Drummer Contest" as a form of competition, Im proud to say that weve always made a concerted effort to select our winners on the basis of their musicality, solo construction and development, taste, touch, etc., as opposed to blazing single-stroke rolls.

If youre inclined towards developing the fastest single-stroke roll on the planet, perhaps these contests are for you. Just dont expect to be hired on the basis of winning a speed contest. Id still recommend staying attuned to whats really important. From everything Ive gathered after nearly 50 years in the field as both a player and an editor, blazing speed is the very last thing your fellow musicians are looking for. Focus on whats important musically and leave the athletics to the athletes. In the end, youll achieve much greater success as a player, and a good deal more musical respect. Thanks.

 

Ron Spagnardi

Modern Drummer

[bb thomas]

djarrett, Is that really Ron Spagnardi? WOW! He's agreeing with Andy's post (which I didn't know Andy posted here) but the two editorials are saying two totally different things. Double Talk! Is it the real Ron Spagnardi?

[ModernDrummer]

Well, I can't fault Ron's (Spagnardi) analysis or logic in his comments.

 

However, IMHO, I think the two categories, W.F.D competitions and set playing, are similar, but different. And I simply cannot state with authority or expertise that one is MORE important or superior to the other. First, because I've yet to meet a 'true' expert, someone that knows absolutely EVERYTHING there is to know about a given subject. And second, because even though both categories utilize trap set equipment, their goals and objectives are different.

 

For example, let's take auto racing as a comparison. What's MOST important to a NASCAR driver? Top speed? No, he's gotta slow down to enter the pits, etc. Well, how 'bout Pit Crew performance? No, 'cause that's only one aspect of the race? How about fuel supply? Nah, 'cause they bring enough. Know what the MOST important thing is? Being able to make a LEFT TURN! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

But lemme ask anyone. How important, really, is being able to make a left turn to a NHRA top fuel race car driver? Not very important at all, is it? See? Both are racing, both are great, both have some similar criteria that are essential and very important, like having sufficient fuel. But, they're still DIFFERENT. They both have certain criteria which are MORE important than other criteria. So, what's wrong with that? Some people enjoy NASCAR, some NHRA. Some folks like BOTH. Different strokes.

 

Such as it is with W.F.D. vs. trapkit drumming. Some really dig one, some the other. Some of us, find both fascinating and illuminating. To me personally, it's ALL cool. It's ALL drumming. So are drumcan drummers, conga players, etc. And if the W.F.D. brings some additional attention to and for drummers, that's good for all of us. And if it shows a non-drummer just how hard it can get, and or how much work goes into playing some aspect of drumming, better still. LOL, after hearing the records these cats have set, no one in my band takes single stroke rolls for granted anymore!

 

I would also ask those reading my lowly opinion to note, though, that W.F.D. is NOT the same as the old 'Drumming Duel', such as that between Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich. The 'duel' such as it were never measured anything. It was completely subjective and provided the audience an opportunity to hear two fabulous drum Masters. But, the 'duel' proved nothing. Most likely, whomever you liked best before it started was exactly the same person YOU thought was 'best' when it was over. Though, it may have inspired you to have a new found respect for the other.

 

The W.F.D.-type things are a different matter, however. They DO measure something. And something substantive, not subjective. And it's right there on the drum-o-meter gizmo for all to see. Is THAT person the world's fastest at single stroke rolls? Yep, sure is. Until someone else comes along. Period. The "Oh, well there's somebody out there faster that just doesn't compete in those silly competitions" arguements simply doesn't wash, folks. As Buddy Rich himself was once noted to wryly state to some drummer (I purposely forget his name, LOL!) claiming to be the 'World's Fastest Drummer', Buddy commented: "Who SAYS you're the fastest?" NOW, there's a way to prove it, for those who wish to do so. Those who do NOT wish to do so, don't get the bragging rights. Too bad. "Put Up or Shut Up", a philosophy that's as old as man himself, LOL. Personally, I think even Buddy would dig it in his own way.

 

Does W.F.D. have dissimilar goals to what I guess would be labeled "regular drumming"? Sure. And some similar ones. But for me, it's all drumming, it's all good and my hat's off to the guys who work and strive to achieve those amazing records. And Waterson, where ever the heck you are, you NOW owe me an autograph!

 

And THAT'S my amature opinion!

 

J.B.

 

This message has been edited by ModernDrummer on 07-20-2001 at 01:17 AM

[sidereal]

This is getting stupid.

 

I haven't read all the varied posts on this subject and I don't care to. You all sure seem excited about the subject. Personally, I think any talk of world's fastest drummer is juvinile and has nothing to do with drumming. I equate it to a 16-year-old jerking off in his bedroom instead of going out and meeting a real girl.

 

If you've spent any time in the real world of gigging and sessions you know that no one gives a damn how fast you are. If that's something that rocks your boat, you're more into masterbation than sex, plain and simple. (You get the analogy.) If you play fast single-stroke rolls, it means you've spent too much time playing with yourself and not enough time exploring what music is all about with other musicians.

 

I make no apologies for being harsh. Look, I love the art of drumming. What I hate is the way drumming is perceived by other musicians and music lovers. This kind of mindless chatter only perpetuates all those negative views of drums and drummers. That drummers don't listen, that drummers only want to impress people with chops.

 

Ron's right. Drumming is about groove, it's about feel, it's about musicianship, it's about propelling the collective (the band) to emotional heights. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not a musician, and in my opinion, completely misses what playing drums is all about.

 

Never one to shy away from expressing my opinion...

 

-sidereal

[djarrett]

Hey, Guys:

I have been slammed with NAMM show preparations.

I did not even see Ron's comments until today.

I have every reason to believe that this *is* Ron, however, I will be with the MD folks this weekend at NAMM and some things will be addressed and hopefully resolved regarding.

 

As far as Ron's comments: Many times in life, we all say things that get mis-interpreted. As I have stated in this thread already, perhaps Ron's intentions were merely to imply that we all need to find balance in our drumming and not focus on one primary genre of drumming. I do not know. If this is possible, perhaps he chose his words not realizing that the way he presented his comments would cause such a stink!

 

Bottom line, I will find out more this weekend and report back to you guys next week!

 

Be cool and keep on drummin'

DJ

[vinnie c.]

I guess Joe Morello and Buddy Rich spent a lot a time in the bathroom also, their single strokes were'nt exactly slow!

[SoundzapS]

sidereal: I agree with you if in fact a drummer ONLY wants to play fast and not care about the musical aspect of drumming. BUT, if a drummer has already been there and done that ( as far as swinging a band ) and then wants to accomplish 1116 on a drumometer, then I feel it is a GREAT accomplishment. There are two ways to look at it. Some of these WFD guys are masters when it comes to tech

[djarrett]

Sidereal:

Take a chill bro. You need to go back and read ModernDrummer's post.

 

Drumming can be compared to liking ball. What kind of ball? Football, basketball, baseball, etc. It is all ball!

 

Drumming ... Marching Drumming, Orchestral Drumming, Percussion Ensemble Drumming, Tabla Drumming, Drum and Fife Drumming, Scottish Drumming, Irish Drumming, Drum Corps Drumming, Metal Drumming, Jazz Drumming ... etc, etc,

 

IT'S ALL DRUMMING ... AND IT'S ALL GOOD!!!

 

And on MusicPlayer.com's Drum Talk Forum ... IT'S ALL WELCOME!

 

Learn from these truths!

 

DJ

[DrummerCafe]

Okay ... the whole WFD thing is cool and we've been talking (arguing) about it for over a week now; he said she said he said. Can we move on? There's so much else to talk about and quite frankly ... arguing about the WFD thing and why people like it or don't like it is getting old. If you are in support of WFD, great; if your not, that's great too. Everyone has the tastes ... just like DJ said.

 

I'm slowly losing my interest in this Forum due to all the constant discussion about the WFD. Every thread seems (to me) to be about this in some way or another. Sure keep the thread going on the discussion, but let's stop posting thread after thread after thread about the same thing ... WFD. I'm only asking ... I'm not demanding. All of the time being spent on this topic, it's no wonder Ron say's the things he says. WFD isn't about music ... it's a sport or a nice pass time for drummers to do something challenging and compete.

 

Maybe it's the fact that I don't give a flying flip about Sports in general that has me bored with the WFD.

 

Oh well ... that's my two cents and how I feel. Take it or leave it.

 

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[sidereal]

...and that's what I was trying to say - sort of. There's too much talk about it, and I was concerned a bit that so many on this forum were more into speed than issues that working drummers face on a regular basis. So... I aggressively gave my point of view because I'd had enough.

 

I'm not into censoring, but can I make a similar polite request that we move on?

[bb thomas]

Look you two, there is no use bringing that Evan's board "whinnie crap" over here. We put up with it over there until the most of the WFD guys came over here because we were offered a cool and welcomed hang and now you guys have started again. It is not our fault WFD is talk about. If the thread is a topic I like and I am a registered member, I have the right to post about it. If you don't like the topic skip over it to something else. Post on topics you like and you post will be positive. I don't want to argue with you anymore. Why did you follow us over here, just to start the same childish crap? If you don't like WFD don't post about it. but, don't ruin it for those who do like it! Simple!

[DrummerCafe]

Originally posted by bb thomas:

Look you two, there is no use bringing that Evan's board "whinnie crap" over here. We put up with it over there until the most of the WFD guys came over here because we were offered a cool and welcomed hang and now you guys have started again. It is not our fault WFD is talk about. If the thread is a topic I like and I am a registered member, I have the right to post about it. If you don't like the topic skip over it to something else. Post on topics you like and you post will be positive. I don't want to argue with you anymore. Why did you follow us over here, just to start the same childish crap? If you don't like WFD don't post about it. but, don't ruin it for those who do like it! Simple!

 

Listen Mr. BB Thomas ... number one ... I never "followed" you over here. I been here a LOT longer than you have; so watch your presumptous comments. Number two, I know that I can skip over the posts ... that's not the point. I'm NICELY suggesting that you make a couple of threads about your WFD stuff and post there. That's NOT what is happening right now! Every new thread is arguing about the WFD; for and against.

 

I'm tired of discussing the topic frankly, so I'm not posting on it. And just for the record, since you ASSUMED that I came over here to argue about it ... I never made a post on the topic ... for or against. The only comments I made were in regards to Ron's attitude towards. Quite frankly, the way you are behaving about this only fuels the points Ron was making. You're slitting your own throat here.

 

I wasn't "whining" about the WFD stuff ... I was merely suggesting that we talk about something else. If someone only wants to talk about WFD ... then I would question their real interests; it certainly doesn't sound like it's about making music.

 

I'm trying to be nice about all of this ... so don't get all defensive and start flaming the rest of us. Watch what you say and try to respect others on the forum.

 

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[sidereal]

I've also never been on the Evans board so I don't know what you're talking about. You're not exactly brimming with positivity bb.

 

But I'm not trying to cop attitude, quite the opposite. I'm just trying to raise the level of dialog on this forum. I'm fairly new here and I have to respectfully say that the discussions over the last week or so have seemed a bit amateurish and haven't exactly piqued my interest. This whole WFD thing seems more like WWF to me.

 

So I'll hang out and see if I like it any better over the next few weeks. If it turns out to not be my kind of group, that's my problem and I'll leave and I'm sure I won't be missed. But I still hold out hope! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

So... does anyone have any thoughts on reproducing electronic drums with an acoustic kit for live shows? (see my ignored post elsewhere)

[bb thomas]

Bart I apologize, i thought you and sidereal were from Evan's board. sorry to be so defensive, but i let those guys over there run me off and the next thing I know Andy and Ron Spagnardi are there talking about the same stuff i wanted to talk about. i want to communicate with thses guys about this topic. I know there are other topics and it is all good, this is just what i am into and i hope you understand. I am sorry if i was edgy on the subject. Will you forgive me and us be drumming buddies? bb

[DrummerCafe]

All is cool BB.

 

Have at and talk about it as much as you want. This is an open forum and there's no discrimination ... well, at least on purpose.

 

Peace.

 

 

 

------------------

Bart Elliott

http://bartelliott.com

[bb thomas]

djareett, were there any sightings of either of these editors or word from their camp today at NAMM? i saw new MD, Man! Ron puts a evil slant on WFD and drumometer. I am suspicious of some of the readers letters, some look a lot like Ron's writing. I don't know how these guys at WFD are taking it, this guy Spagnardi keeps slinging mud at them. WFD didn't invent speed drumming. It has been around for years. I studied with Boo McAfee for 2 years at npi, he is not one I would keep thowing mud on. why does Spagnardi keep doing this? What's his beef?

[djarrett]

Hey, BB:

 

Let's analyse the situation. (and pay attention to the first four letters of the word analyse! )

 

I do think Bart's point is valid to one degree. There are threads regarding WFD on this site. If you want to post regarding WFD ... post on those threads. If you have a totally new issue relative to WFD ... then feel free to make a new post. What I want to avoid is this constantly reposting the same questions regarding this subject!!!

 

No one IS and no one WILL get ugly with you here. Lest they not want to participate here!!!

 

There is activity to report regarding the two editors. I will have more to report tomorrow!! Right now, I am about ready to drop out!!

thanks,

DJ

[ModernDrummer]

Sidereal -

 

Uh, and just for the record, if you left (let's hope not) *I* would miss ya. Even though I'm new here. And even if we disagreed on virtually everything, which does not seem to be the case. I enjoy reading someone else's point of view. Whether we agree, to me, is irrelevant. It's the different PERSPECTIVES that I like. Sometimes we'll move in the same direction, sometimes opposite directions. Isn't that how it's SUPPOSED to be? You like chocolate ice cream, I like vanilla. Bart likes strawberry. So we can't go to Baskin Robbins together?

 

I place great stock in reading what you have to say, as I do the opinions and thoughts of other members here and at other forums. So if it helps, just remember that at least ONE person out here is reading, comprehending and appreciating what you have to say.

 

J.B.

[DrummerCafe]

Actually, I like Mint Chocolate Chip ... in case anyone is making an ice cream run.

[vinnie c.]

Ron S. is holding next years M.D. festival at Carvel.hehehaha

[sidereal]

ModerDrummer... well said! I agree.

 

I'd like to make a humble request, along the lines of DJ's but a step further, that we keep all the WFD thoughts on one thread so we don't risk burying other subjects.

 

I'm all about Ben & Jerry's 'Phish Food' http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[steve52]

I practice with my left and I eat vanilla ice cream with my right. I practice with my right and I eat vanilla ice cream with my left. I play a single stroke roll and my vanilla ice cream melts.