Recording Concert Tom Drums?

felix stein · June 19, 2001

Those are very cool kits.

My friend had a big one.

Keep the heads fresh and use goods mics up inside the shells. Try to mount the mics on separate stands. Depending on the tone you are going for/move the mic to your taste. Then add reverb!

Vinnie Appice played a set of those on Black Sabbath's "Live Evil"

AWESOME is all I can say. Check it out.

popstalin · June 19, 2001

I'm trying to "find" anything from that album. Thanks for pointing me in a direction.

Here's a question for ya, how do I really tune those suckers? I'm familiar with tuning a traditional 2-headed drum but can never quite seem to get this one sounding the way I like it... it's like I just miss, you know?

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Jen H.

felix stein · June 20, 2001

Ask Vinnie Appice how he tuned his!'

Just whatever sounds cool to you...maybe get out of the box of your current head selection and try some different brands and weights till you are happy...you might find that you have the best sound for your ears already

djarrett · June 20, 2001

Hey, Hey Wondercrush!

Having a background with Slingerland Drums, I can answer as to the original configuration of the drums.

These drums came from the factory with Remo CS Black Dot heads. These were used to obtain a "controlled sound" (hence the CS).

Ideally you want to have a sound much like that of those guys that originally played the drums. I'll bet that if you check some of the photos of these guys playing "in the day", that they had these black dot heads.

You are in good company however, Phil Collins ( a bada$$) drummer in my opinion, *Still* uses concert toms. I believe that he uses either the Remo CS heads or the Powerstroke Series of heads.

When tuning concert (or Melodic toms as they were also called), you are not tuning the top head to work with the bottom. Instead, you actually want those toms to be melodic. Choose an interval of 4ths or 5ths and tune accordingly.

This should produce the results you seek!

Let us know!

Peace,

DJ

felix stein · June 20, 2001

That's right DJ...I looked at drum book Vinnie published a while back and he had CS's on the skins. Very cool. Nice tuning tip. I'll have to run out and get the giant cb-700 vintage concert tom kit.

felix stein · June 20, 2001

OH, Wondercrush...check out Vinnie's tone on the drum solo he does after "War Pigs" on that Live Evil album. I think you will like it a lot.

popstalin · June 20, 2001

OK, you lost me djarret. I'm not a "trained" drummer so I don't have any clue what 4ths and 5ths are. I currently am using Remo Ambassador coated heads, for that big band type sound (although we play pop/rock music). But I'll try the CS'. Usually when tuning the drum I'll tune it like a guitar. I'll explain:

When tuning a guitar harmonically the goal is to get the 2 strings tones to ring as one, well when tuning the heads I notice there is a ring. I tune it until all the "rings" are one.

Is that maybe what you mean, or am I killing the tone of the drum?

Thanks for replying by the way, after reading that you were affiliated to Slingerland, I was hoping you'd chime in. Anyway to get me a StudioKing set on the cheap? Kidding http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

By the way, is there much difference between Aquarian Studio X's and Remo CS?

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Jen H.

This message has been edited by wondercrush on 06-20-2001 at 10:36 AM

djarrett · June 22, 2001

Hey, Wondercrush:

I can only speak for the Original Equipment Manufacturer supplied heads. Those were Remo CS heads.

This may not be what you are looking for, but they are authentic to the drum and if you are looking for the original vintage sound that these drums produced, ... this is the best ticket for you.

You process for tuning works fine. Basically, when I refer to 4ths and 5ths, this is Interval (defined as the distance between two notes) and in this case, we are talking melodic (horizontal on the music staff) verses harmonic (vertical on the musical staff)

Tuning to these intervals works for many drummers, but as an earlier thread stated, ... tuning is a personal choice. You have to like what you play!

I wish I could get you a Studio King, ... Heck, I wish I could get me a Studio King set. Unfortunately, they are currently not being made.

By the way wondercrush, checked out the music on MP3. WOW!

I like it. Has very vintage rock sound.

Hope all this helps!

DJ

djarrett · June 22, 2001

Hey, Wondercrush:

I can only speak for the Original Equipment Manufacturer supplied heads. Those were Remo CS heads.

This may not be what you are looking for, but they are authentic to the drum and if you are looking for the original vintage sound that these drums produced, ... this is the best ticket for you.

You process for tuning works fine. Basically, when I refer to 4ths and 5ths, this is Interval (defined as the distance between two notes) and in this case, we are talking melodic (horizontal on the music staff) verses harmonic (vertical on the musical staff)

Tuning to these intervals works for many drummers, but as an earlier thread stated, ... tuning is a personal choice. You have to like what you play!

I wish I could get you a Studio King, ... Heck, I wish I could get me a Studio King set. Unfortunately, they are currently not being made.

By the way wondercrush, checked out the music on MP3. WOW!

I like it. Has very vintage rock sound.

Hope all this helps!

DJ

popstalin · June 22, 2001

Thanks DJ! That cleared it up! Thanks for checking out the tunes, always like to hear good things about our music. It's amazing listening to those songs, cause they were recorded almost 3 years ago and we've grown so much... anyway!

I haven't even seen any of the Studio King sets used or New Old Stock. Did Gibson take 'em back and destroy them, ship 'em to a 3rd world country, hope they become collectors items?

Oh well, I'll just drudge along with my concert toms!

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Jen H.

popstalin · July 3, 2001

Just wanted to update anyone who's interested. The drum tracks have been layed.

We ended up using a rather unconvential (or maybe not) miking technique.

We miked the snare directly with an SM57 (and put mild compression on it), then ran an Oktava MK219 through a DBX 286A mic pre and placed that over my left shoulder to pick up the hi-hat and some ambient snare and the toms. Then we took an old shotgun mic and put that about 8 feet in front of the kit to pick up the bass drum, some room and some cymbals, then we put a Avlex Superlux bass drum mic about 2 feet in front of the bass drum.

There's actually minimal bleed and the drums sound great - particularly the bass and snare. The Oktava is a nice suprise in this situation...

Thanks for all your suggestions and help!

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Jen H.