Your Favourite Amp?

[h364]

Hi Everyone, Im A 13 "Intermediate" Player If You Know What Im Saying, I Have To Get Bigger Rig Very Soon So Christmas Is The Awnser, Im Consider a behringer power pack 3, now i know behringer arent very well praised in the bass world but it has everything i could ever want, envelope filter over 1200w, harmonics everything! And Its Only £450 new, so i am defintly considering this, or the other option is to get a 'brand' like 'asdown' 'trace ellliot' at the same type of money but, quite old and fairly batterd, now from doing lots of research in most cases ashown mag series not the agm series obvioulsy! But the agm which are like £600 new at least for a rig is not even close to a behringer in spec wise, and its less than half the power! So i just wanted to know your opinions and any suggestions! Thanks Harrison

[getz out]

Bugera speakers... fun stuff.

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/scarfaccio/skillz003.jpg

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/scarfaccio/skillz004.jpg

[_Sweet Willie_]

Can we get a picture of a bunny with a Bugera speaker on its head up in this joint?

 

Bump? 0-9? Anyone?

 

Peace.

--SW

[kenfxj]

Originally posted by Dr. Sweet Willie:

Can we get a picture of a bunny with a Bugera speaker on its head up in this joint?

 

Bump? 0-9? Anyone?

 

Peace.

--SW

http://www.geocities.com/kenfxj/bunny_bugera.jpg

[_Sweet Willie_]

Ken, thank you. Really. Thank you.

 

Harrison, have you played any Behringer gear yet? Please do that before making any decisions.

 

Also, what kind of gigs will you be playing? For almost everything, 400W or so into a 4x10 cabinet will be plenty. A used, higher quality (not necessarily "brand") rig w/ fewer features and fewer watts may serve you better and longer than a new, lower quality rig.

 

Just something to think about.

 

Ken, did I thank you yet for the Bugera Bunny?

 

Peace.

--s-uu

[The Geoff]

You'll get a decent used Trace Elliot 1x15 300W for about £230 on eBay UK.

 

One went today. There's a Gallien Krueger 400W looks like it'll go for about £350. Well worth looking at.

 

Geoff

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by Dr. Sweet Willie:

...400W or so into a 4x10 cabinet will be plenty...

Or maybe a 2x12, or maybe two 1x12s, or maybe a 1x15, or maybe a 3x10, or maybe two 2x10s, or maybe...

 

Anyway, you get the picture.

 

Peace.

--SW

[getz out]

Originally posted by h364:

it has everything i could ever want,

Be sure about that.

 

Originally posted by h364:

envelope filter

No it does not.

 

Originally posted by h364:

over 1200w

No it does not. It does 450-watts at 4 ohms.

 

Originally posted by h364:

harmonics

I am not sure what you mean by this.

[h364]

Ok, So Behringer Has Gone , What Do We Think Of This Bad Boy? Its the only one thats fairly new ive seen on ebay in ages the rest our like from teh 80's and have been discontinued for liek a decade, im very tempted by this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Trace-Elliot-Bass-Amp_W0QQitemZ170021686665QQihZ007QQcategoryZ58719QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[h364]

And Also Can Someone Confirm For Me, How The F*&% Do You Work All This Cabinet Malarky Out, Right So if The Head, the one in the ebay thing above, is 150w what does that mean exactly? And How Much Can I Be Expecting To Get If I Turn Everyhing Up To Full Blast Which Is Dangerous I Know!

[kenfxj]

Originally posted by Dr. Sweet Willie:

Ken, thank you. Really. Thank you.

 

Anytime.

[jlrush]

Hi Harrison,

 

Willie and Geoff are steering you in the right direction. Why don't you go to eBay UK and check out the ones Geoff mentioned?

 

More wattage, or the potential for more wattage, basically translates into more volume. The Trace you're looking at probably has a reserve set at about 450 pounds, and 150 watts might not get you the volume level you would eventually need. If I'm wrong someone here will likely correct me.

 

And be careful about the level of profanity you use here. You'll get better results, and more respect, if you don't use it at all.

 

Jim

[tatudbassman]

Harrison...my favorite small rig to tote around has been a Ampeg B100R (100w/15" for $650). I just mic it with an Sennheisher Evolution 602, and use a Sansamp Bassdriver DI. One thing I've noticed is that you can plug into 3 amps (same brand/model), and all three will sound slightly different, and maybe I'm just crazy. We each have our own sound. If you find "that sound" that is you...go with it. You"ll be more complete, hatever the cost. Good luck and stay in touch!

BTW...my absolute fav is an Ampeg SVT4-Pro with Ampeg Classic 8x10 cab.

[Bass_god_offspring]

And Also Can Someone Confirm For Me, How The F*&% Do You Work All This Cabinet Malarky Out, Right So if The Head, the one in the ebay thing above, is 150w what does that mean exactly? And How Much Can I Be Expecting To Get If I Turn Everyhing Up To Full Blast Which Is Dangerous I Know!

1.) Dont cuss.

 

2.) learn about how amps work, THEN change your status to an "intermediate" player.

 

3.) here's a basic amp run down:

 

Amp/Head - unit that powers the speakers. Usually a bass head has two sections: a Power amp section, and a Pre amp section. The PRE AMP is the part of the amp that controls the tone and overall sound of the rig. All of them "mid", "treble", and "low" knobs on the head are controlling the pre amp. The POWER AMP section provides all the actual power for the speakers. usually the "gain" and "level" knobs control the power amp levels.

 

The Cab/cabinet of the rig is the box that houses all of the speakers. the cab (unless it has a combined head) does not plug into the wall.

 

 

a.) Heads push out a number of watts that is usually listed on the back of the unit. those are CRITICAL!!!! THose watts are paired with "ohms" , which are a level of electrical resistance rating. So you'll see heads that push 450w @ 4 ohms, or 200 watts @ 8 ohms, or even, 1000 watts @ 2 ohms (guitar heads and cabs usually go up to 16, while subwoofers usually go down to 2 ohms becuase of the level of electrical resistance).

 

b.) Cabs handle a certain number of watts at certain ohms. for example. an ampeg svt 810 pushes out 800 watts @ 4 ohm. it is important to use an amp that powers a similiar amount of power at the same ohm. DO NOT use an amp that pushes 100 watts at 4 ohms with a cab that can take 50 watts at 4 ohms - u will likely damage the speakers. so be sure to match the two up. (note: Many amps have multiple ratings, such as 1000 watts at 4 ohm, but 500 watts at 8 ohm)

 

c.) Amps push out at RMS. dont be fooled by "peak power" Peak power is a rating amps and cabs use to make them look better. RMS is how much power the head will push or how much the cab will handle at a constant level, such as playing a song.

 

 

d.) You DONT HAVE TO USE THE SAME BRAND OF CAB with a head...just match the watts and ohms

 

 

e.) USE A SPEAKER CABLE TO CONNECT YOUR HEAD TO YOUR CAB! dont use an instrument cable becuase they are not designed to handle that much power.

 

f.) pushes everything to 10 doesn't always give u the best sound.

 

 

g.) To get the loudest rig there is only one solution...........TRY IT OUT FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!

 

why?

 

Becuase while wattage is a scale of power, it's NOT a scale of loudness. Behringer likes to say that they can push 1200 watts when in reality their amps are EXTREMELY ineffecient and 1200 watts soon becomes quieter than 400 watts from ampeg/carvin/peavy/trace elliot/ashdown.

 

 

questions?

 

 

 

 

good luck!

[Mr. Knowitall]

Originally posted by tatudbassman:

my absolute fav is an Ampeg SVT4-Pro with Ampeg Classic 8x10 cab.

+1

[The Geoff]

Read what bass_God_Offspring has written, remember and apply it.

 

A Peavey 7215 might be an amp to consider - plenty on eBay UK.

 

And Which School Taught You To Put A Capital At The Beginning Of Every Word?

 

It looks really lame.

 

G.

[h364]

Hi, thanks for the help i've found this which i very much like the look of, theres one very similar which has a very bad head only 150w, were as this is 300w with 575 peak, heres a pic http://i15.ebayimg.com/03/i/08/1e/0e/3a_12.JPG

[Danzilla]

Originally posted by h364:

[QB] Hi, thanks for the help i've found this which i very much like the look of

Then get it. The look of it is what's most important.

 

Or try to play it first. Maybe even with your eyes closed. See if it sounds like what you are trying to achieve.

 

But based on experience, it should be a very nice rig.

[Tom Capasso]

One of the most difficult things to learn about equipment is price/performance, along with company history. The company history stuff is very subjective. For example, some people feel that Trace was great, went down somewhat, and is now being re-designed to bring it back to a high quality (under Peavey and some of the original Trace engineers).

 

I don't know the age or price of the unit you are considering. You need to check around to see that the price isn't more than it's worth, and that it works well.

 

A KEY item is how it sounds. That includes volume (and we don't know anything about what type of playing you do or are planning to do) and tone.

 

I've edited your post - we prefer to avoid certain types of language.

 

And - welcome. Keep posting questions and experiences. We can learn from you, and offer advice when possible.

 

Tom

[_Sweet Willie_]

There is a fair bit of imprecision and misinformation in what BGO posted. I will endeavor to clarify a little bit.

 

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

2.) learn about how amps work, THEN change your status to an "intermediate" player...

What you know about how amps work has nothing to do with your ability as a player. Let's get that straight from the get go.

 

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

... b.) Cabs handle a certain number of watts at certain ohms. for example. an ampeg svt 810 pushes out 800 watts @ 4 ohm. it is important to use an amp that powers a similiar amount of power at the same ohm. DO NOT use an amp that pushes 100 watts at 4 ohms with a cab that can take 50 watts at 4 ohms - u will likely damage the speakers. so be sure to match the two up. (note: Many amps have multiple ratings, such as 1000 watts at 4 ohm, but 500 watts at 8 ohm)

You absolutely can use an amp that pushes more watts than your cab can handle. Do a search for past threads about "watts," "ohms," and "impedance matching." Really. There are some great discussion threads about this.

 

Do pay attention to the minimum impedance an amp is rated for. If you use an amp rated for a minimum impedance of 4 ohms with a 2 ohm speaker (or combination of speakers), you might just cause the magic smoke to come out of the amp. The magic smoke is bad.

 

Also, that Ampeg 8x10 is pushing out dBs and not watts. The amp is pushing watts into the 8x10 cabinet.

 

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

c.) Amps push out at RMS. dont be fooled by "peak power" Peak power is a rating amps and cabs use to make them look better. RMS is how much power the head will push or how much the cab will handle at a constant level, such as playing a song.

It is useful to know the peak power handling of your cab. This is how much power it can handle in a short burst. This can be a valuable statistic. The RMS rating is more valuable, but I think BGO goes too far in writing it off completely.

 

 

The Trace rig you're considering might work. While only 150W, you might be able to upgrade the head later. I did pretty well with 150W into a 4x10 cab for a while. You will likely do okay w/ 150W into a 1x15 + 2x10.

 

Peace.

--SW

[Gruuve]

Thanks to BGO for a really good effort which was mostly correct, and thanks to SW for all the clarification. As an example, I'm using a power amp that will push out 3000 watts into 4 ohms (QSC PLX-3002), and a 4-ohm cab rated for 750 watts RMS (Acme LowB4...presumably rated for around 1500 watts peak). I keep the power amp out of clipping, so I *should* be generally seeing about 1500 watt peaks or so (very clean and accurate power gain-staged this way, I should mention), and the average power output is likely around 300-600 watts. So far I haven't heard a single fart from any of the drivers, nor does the tweeter protection bulb light up. If I pushed the amp up to it's level of just starting to clip (where I'd be seeing 3000 watt peaks), I might hear some drivers farting and possibly damage them...but I don't need to crank it that much. If I needed that much volume for some unimaginable reason, I'd add another cab.

 

There's multiple ways to get more volume...small number of drivers with huge amounts of power, or lots of drivers with a smaller amount of power. You'd probably be surprised at how loud 150 watts would actually be pushing enough drivers in cabs that have at least a reasonably good sensitivity (ie. efficiency).

 

I agree with SW...those cabs are probably a pretty good start (based on what I remember from limited experience with Trace Elliot gear), and the head you could upgrade later. If it's a good price AND you've played through it and like how it sounds, I'd say pull the trigger.

 

Dave

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

...(guitar heads and cabs usually go up to 16, while subwoofers usually go down to 2 ohms becuase of the level of electrical resistance).

 

What?!?!

 

Peace.

--s-uu

[getz out]

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

Thanks to BGO for a really good effort which was mostly correct,

Mostly correct, besides all the technical parts.

[dcr]

Don't count out the Behringer too quickly. I tried a bass out through one the other day, and was amazed at how the tone remained pretty much the same no matter what knobs I turned on the bass or how I played--think sort of reedy, tinny, and thin all at once. I pulled down 3 or 4 more different basses, and there it was again--that distinctive Behringer tone. I don't know if Behringer have a name for the circuitry that makes their tone so special. Myself, I've taken to calling it "The Poo Filter."

 

End sarcasm. (Except I really do call it that.) Whatever you do, just stay away from Behringer. It takes whatever signal you give it & makes it sound like poo. Poo smells bad. It sounds bad, too.

 

I would also get some more experience under my belt before going out & buying something; it's important to know what you want, & I'm not sure you do, yet (beyond "bigger & louder & cool lookin'"). Perhaps you know someone who's played the bass a long time & who can go to a shop with you?

[...]

Originally posted by getz76:

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

Thanks to BGO for a really good effort which was mostly correct,

Mostly correct, besides all the technical parts.

Yes indeed.

[wraub]

Originally posted by dcr:

Whatever you do, just stay away from Behringer. It takes whatever signal you give it & makes it sound like poo. Poo smells bad. It sounds bad, too.

As an aside, I'd just like to recall the usual rule here on the forum regarding gross generalities about brand names and gear quality.

And I am not trying to defend Behringer or their practices, or stir up the usual "debate".

 

I have a Behringer BX300T head I got for practice and rehearsal. I got it used for cheap, and didn't really expect much from it besides amplification of signal to listenable levels. However, in actual use, I have found it to offer a nice, warm, solid state sound that's quite pleasing (kind of like an Ashdown ).

This is through an Avatar 1x12.

 

For comparison's sake, I also use an SWR Grand Prix/Peavey DPC set-up that regularly gets compliments from critical ears. Additionally, my ears also work fine.

 

I have run the Begringer through SWR, Ampeg, Peavey, and other cabs, everything from the aforementioned 1x12 to 8x10, and it always sounds decent. Sure, some of the functions and effects are useless to me, but I usually don't use most such functions regardless of amp.

 

Simply put, it sounds good, offers quite a lot of useful range in the controls, has been reliable on quite a few gigs and many dozens of practice hours, and was inexpensive enough to not be of major concern if something serious happened to it. Plus, it looks much better now that I redid the faceplate.

 

That said, their cabinets I have seen, heard, and moved were quite shoddily built and needlessly heavy. I don't like their effects pedals that I have heard.

Their known business practices are somewhere between wildly dishonest and blatantly evil, and I think Uli's mom dresses him funny.

 

As usual, I'd suggest doing all appropriate research for yourself, soundwise, pricewise, business wise and otherwise, regardless of brand names, advertising or the preconceptions of others.

It's usually more of a learning experience.

 

 

On Topic, I'd say my favorite amp is the one that I can get a useful tone from in a given room, hear myself and be heard clearly and cleanly by the room, and be totally happy with my tone. And it's light, too.

Still looking...

 

 

Peace,

 

wraub

 

p.s. I'd bet that Trace rig is worth a listen.

 

P.P.S. Ken, that picture rocks.