Extremely articulate bass -> Tobias Killer B -> MP3 sample uploaded...

[Gruuve]

Actually, I've discovered the Zebrawood Tobias isn't a "made by Mike" vintage...the original Tobias operations in CA (both pre and post Gibson) never made a Killer B...that was added by Gibson (as I understand it) during Mike's consulting days with Gibson after the acquisition. I don't think this is one of the "Nashville" era instruments (to be avoided) because I don't believe they were making them yet during that period of time. I could have this wrong. This particular one was an early one, which the best I can tell had the original electronics (3-band EQ with a EQ bypass switch) rather than the more current 3-band EQ w/ mid-freqency selector and the push-pull slap contour pot. However, all I can say is that this thing played like a dream, and sounded just as good. It's rare to find a bass that actually "makes you sound good", but that's what this one did. Now that I think about it this way, why haven't I already bought it?

 

Actually, I guess I can answer my own question...the thing I'm waiting on is to get my hands on a Roscoe LG-3005 sometime this week (I hope) so that I can determine if memory is sweeter than reality.

 

I've definitely struck the Pedulla Thunderbass/Thunderbolt off my list. I just got a call from GC that the one they have has been setup better, but I'm not even going to bother. The Pedulla is a really nice bass, but it just didn't have the same vibe for me...ie. it didn't "make me sound good". I'm trying to remember why I liked it so much the first time I played it...have my tastes changed that much in a mere 6 months or so?...I guess so. I do have to say that Michael Pedulla's marketing claims about the Thunderbass are indeed true...it's very warm and round fingerpicked but very bright and cutting slapped (noticeably moreso than you can do on most basses based on technique alone), and the Thunderguts switch is pretty killer...the instant "I can hear me" switch.

 

Anyway, from what I can determine, quality isn't as consistent with the Tobias basses as it should be (especially given the price)...so it's definitely a play-before-you-buy deal. However, this one is obviously one of the good ones!

 

Dave

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

This particular one was an early one, which the best I can tell had the original electronics (3-band EQ with a EQ bypass switch) rather than the more current 3-band EQ w/ mid-freqency selector and the push-pull slap contour pot.

I'm pretty sure the early ones had dual 2-band EQ for each half of the quad-coil pickup. I remember having my eyes on one during '97-98 when I was new to bassing.

 

But as you say, it's all about what the individual instrument sounds like - if the wood is resonant and it's put together well and sounds good acoustically then it doesn't matter by whom, where or when it was made!

 

Alex

[Gruuve]

Alright...I have been bouncing back and forth between this local Tobias Killer B and a Roscoe LG-3005 that's not local but about the same price. Both are really sweet fish. I've played two different Roscoes briefly and the memory sure is sweet. So, here's what I've finally decided:

 

I'll get one of each. More specifically, I'm going to complete the deal with the Tobias tommorrow, and a Roscoe is going onto my official to-be-played-and-probably-acquired list.

 

The Tobias is just too good to pass up. It's rare that I play a bass that just completely feels like it was made for my hands AND sounds like what I hear in my head, and this one hit both of those marks dead on. It's probably not one of the most versatile basses that I could consider, but I'd say it's at least as versatile as (and probably a bit moreso than) the Stingray5. I just somehow intuitively know this one is destined to be in my arsenal.

 

And when I find the right Roscoe at the right price at the right time, one will definitely be added to my arsenal. Any bass good enough to remember playing it briefly 12 years ago is worth seeking out locally for at least another test run and probable acquisition. I'll set a goal to have one acquired (or at least played and decided against for some unexpected reason) within about a year.

 

Dave

[Davo-London]

Photos and sound samples a la Benloy?

 

Davo

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

I'll get one of each.

Dave, are you really Davina? This seems like girl clothing purchasing logic!

 

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

It's rare that I play a bass that just completely feels like it was made for my hands AND sounds like what I hear in my head, and this one hit both of those marks dead on.

Why did you not buy this sooner?!

 

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

It's probably not one of the most versatile basses that I could consider...

What is 'versatile' anyway? 'Does it sound good?' and 'can you hear it?' seem to be the only questions that matter. It's not as if anyone's paying us real money to provide that tone they've been dreaming of on their new song. Let's play it how we want!

 

Alex

[Gruuve]

I'll see what I can do!

 

Also, I should note that the Pedulla Thunderbolt/Thunderbass that's been on my to-be-acquired-at-some-point-list for a while is actually now off that list. It's actually a really fine sounding and fine playing bass, I've found from trying it again that it's just a little too round-sounding for my current tastes. It doesn't have a whole lot of bite unless you slap it...I certainly can't say it's not articulate sounding, but that articulation is in the lower-mids, and that characteristic just isn't fitting my tastes nowadays.

 

In fact, I've realized that my Conklin GT-5 sounds very much like the Pedulla Thunderbass, except the GT-5 has some mids that are much more nasally. I think I actually like the Conklin better than the Pedulla based just on that. It makes for a quite interesting slap tone to have some of those lower nasally mids in there... slap has the boom and click that it should have, but it also has this nasally growl to it that's really unique. Fingerpick tone on it is warm and round with a touch of the nasally mids, but again the articulate part of the frequencies it delivers are in a lower range and that's just not fitting my current tastes well enough. The Conklin is a really nice and unique bass, but I've decided to sell it as I think the Tobias is going to deliver what I'm currently after a lot better. (If anyone's interested in the Conklin, PM me...it can be had for a really good deal since I'd like to turn it over quickly!)

 

Dave

[Gruuve]

Originally posted by C. Alexander Claber:

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

I'll get one of each.

Dave, are you really Davina? This seems like girl clothing purchasing logic!

I guess I'm a girlie man!

 

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

It's rare that I play a bass that just completely feels like it was made for my hands AND sounds like what I hear in my head, and this one hit both of those marks dead on.

Why did you not buy this sooner?!

That's exactly the thought I arrived at, and it's also exactly what my wife said!

 

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

It's probably not one of the most versatile basses that I could consider...

What is 'versatile' anyway? 'Does it sound good?' and 'can you hear it?' seem to be the only questions that matter. It's not as if anyone's paying us real money to provide that tone they've been dreaming of on their new song. Let's play it how we want!

Agreed. Something I've been between since joining the worship band at church is "do I want to emulate the original bassist on these songs, or do I want to do it how Dave Sisk would do it?". The original music pastor was a stickler for doing it just like the recording. The new music pastor likes doing our own arrangements...I'm all over that! So, in cases where it really matters (ie. where the bass line identifies the song) I try to stick to mostly the original (maybe give it little bit of my own personality)...on others, I throw away the original recording and do it my way. So far, the music pastor is liking what I do...injecting groove is what I do best all things considered, and he seems to like that groove-injection.

 

The nested quotes got a little crazy...sorry!

[wraub]

Originally posted by Dr. Sweet Willie:

1980s Ibanez Musician or Roadstar -- if you can find one w/ 5 strings on eBay or elsewhere. Trust me. Really. Trust me.

SSSHHHHHHHHHH!

Willie, don't tell anyone else, dammit!

 

Seriously, I would not part with either of my '85 Roadstar II basses, period.

And I do still regret and bemoan the loss of my fretless '84 Musician, which I special ordered brand new from the factory.

 

I miss that bass...

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[wraub]

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

It's rare that I play a bass that just completely feels like it was made for my hands AND sounds like what I hear in my head, and this one hit both of those marks dead on.

I agree, very rare.

It happened to me recently, and I bought that one-

It was a Jazz bass.

 

 

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

It's probably not one of the most versatile basses that I could consider...

Originally posted by C. Alex Claber:

What is 'versatile' anyway? 'Does it sound good?' and 'can you hear it?' seem to be the only questions that matter. It's not as if anyone's paying us real money to provide that tone they've been dreaming of on their new song. Let's play it how we want!

Alex

+1. Spot on.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[Gruuve]

Alright...brought this beauty home with me tonight! Pics coming soon. I just figured out this guy does indeed have the current electronics (push-pull slap contour and mid-freq selector switch)...I guess I was pulling the wrong knob earlier!

 

Question: there are 3 trim-pots in the control cavity. Anyone know what they actually do? I'm hoping one is an output trim, but I haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

 

Conducting this deal was a very pleasant experience at Sam Ash...the guitar dept manager came in on his day off to finish this deal with me...I was pretty impressed...he certainly earned his commissions. I took the SWR SM-900 head with me, and got about the same trade-in price that I would've gotten on Ebay, AND he agreed to a 10% discount off the asking price (their asking price about what these generally go for on Ebay). These folks went the extra mile!

 

Man, I'm thinking bass gear (maybe even musical gear in general) isn't selling very well right now, neither at SA nor GC nor even on Ebay. It seems to be a buyer's market at the moment...maybe I should continue my acquisition spree?

 

Dave

[saxofunk]

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

Question: there are 3 trim-pots in the control cavity. Anyone know what they actually do? I'm hoping one is an output trim, but I haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

I jumped out of my seat and ran to find the Tobias manual that I printed when I bought my Toby Deluxe back in '01. At that time they had buried most traces of Tobias in their online archive... Nothing.

 

But, the URL still works, so HERE is everything I know. Not much.

 

Have fun with your new baby!

[Gruuve]

Ah...thanks Matt! Nothing there about those 3 trim pots...I guess I'll have to experiment tommorrow...darn! Since it's all Bartolini electronics, I'd email those guys but they don't seem to have a published email address. Apparently Gibson can't tell me what they do...after all, they're only the makers of the instrument.

 

Dave

[wraub]

Hey Dave, congrats on the fishy acquisition!

We will need pics.

 

Maybe this site will help, I don't know for sure... Bartolini web page

 

Or this:

 

For support with installations, please use our fax number

Bartolini Pickups and Electronics

Fax: (925) 449-7692

 

HTH.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[Gruuve]

Sweet . I figured out what the 3 trim pots in the control cavity do. Here's the deal for future reference:

 

- There's one trim pot on a block by itself. This adjusts the amount of scoop for the push-pull slap contour circuit. If you crank it all the way up, it gets a little hissy, but if you back it down just a bit, there's a pretty substantial scoop. If you turn it all the way counter-clockwise, there's just a very small amount of scoop when you engage the slap contour circuit. Nicely done.

 

- There's two trim pots side-by-side on a larger block...it turns out these are pickup level adjustments. Ever notice how the bridge pickup is usually just a little quieter than the neck pickup? Not any more...I've adjusted these so the output level stays the same when I pan across pickups. Also, you can obviously use these to set the overall output level, although that takes a bit of fiddling to get the output right AND the pickup levels balanced. How sweet is this? Very nicely done. Big positive impression on the Bartolini electronics!

 

There's the mid-frequency selector switch, but that switch on mine is broken at the moment (Sam Ash has ordered the exact switch and will replace it for me for free as part of our deal. It's presumably just a DPDT mini-toggle, so I could do that myself, but since they're going to do it for free, might as well let them since they have the part ordered already). The switch allows you to select 250Hz, 450Hz(I think that was it), or 750Hz as the mid frequency boosted or cut by the mid control pot. Can't wait to get that sucker in there...there's a whole bunch more versatility just waiting for me to find it I think! To my ears, it sounds like the broken switch is stuck on the 250Hz setting (maybe 450Hz, but it sounds pretty low to me).

 

This is a really REALLY bright bass. I hope it actually stays this bright when the strings wear in a bit.

 

By the way, I have no idea what these strings are, but I think I like them on this bass. A little lower tension that I'm used to (I *think*...hard to tell since the action is so good on this guy). I think they may also be a slightly lighter-guage that I typically use (maybe 125-40?) There's no cloth or anything on the upper winding end, and they are not tapered at the bridge. They sound and feel like steel rather than nickel to me. I don't know if they're the stock strings, but I doubt it since they're very new-sounding and it's a used bass. If anyone can clue me in, please do because I think I like these strings.

 

Compared to the Conklin GT-5 which this Tobias is essentially replacing, it's very bright and has incredible bite to it. Perfect for my tastes nowadays! It doesn't seem to do the "warm-and-round" thing really, really well, but I've got that covered in other basses so I don't care. I thought it might be just a tad bottom-shy when I played it through an SWR 750 and Hartke 810 cab at the store, but playing it through the Acme reveals that is not the case at all!

 

And those Bartolini pickups do just that...they seem to pick up every little nuance, even the sound of my fingers scraping the strings when I fingerpick (and some things I'd rather they didn't like some fretting hand noise that I never knew I had...forces me to improve left-hand technique, eh? )

 

I'll do my best to post some pics and maybe a sound clip this afternoon. Overall, I think this is going to really end-up being a keeper (to the same level that my Stingray5 is)...it's quite different from any of my other basses, which was part of what I was after.

 

Dave

[mcbn]

It's about time Dave. I was tired of listening to you go on and on in this thread....

 

Congrats

[Gruuve]

Heh heh...I was tired of listening to me go on and on!

 

Hey Alex, now I need some matching Zebrawood shoes...know where I can get those?

 

Dave

[saxofunk]

Glad you discovered the effects of the trim pots. Product information listed on the Bart site indicated that at least a couple of them would be gain, but finding out by experimentation is part of the fun.

 

My feeble Toby Deluxe electronics are Bart offspring, so they may be similar.* I've tried stainless and chrome, generally finding that stainless sounds better. Also, when strings go dead it's like the whole bass has a problem - something suddenly isn't right - fresh strings bring it back to life. I've been using the coated Black Beauties so they stay newer longer.

 

And, I'll bet those strings are a DR product. AFAIK most of their bass strings are wound without silk.

 

Can't wait for pictures!

 

* Feeble = low cost bass. The electrics rock.

[Gruuve]

K...here's pics:

 

http://www.ipass.net/davesisk/music/pics/TobiasKillerB_front.jpg

 

http://www.ipass.net/davesisk/music/pics/TobiasKillerB_back.jpg

 

And just for good measure, here's a current family pic (basses only), left-to-right: 1996 Ernie Ball Musicman Stingray5, 1997 Tobias Killer B, G&L L-2500 Tribute, and Dean Edge 5 Fretless

http://www.ipass.net/davesisk/music/pics/Bass_FamilyPic.jpg

[alexclaber]

Nice, v nice indeed.

 

Alex

[ArwinH]

wow, that's a happy family!

[Gruuve]

Thanks guys. Ya know the only thing I'm not crazy about with the Tobias is (shock shock) the string spacing...18mm at the bridge, but that's still just so close my popping fingers miss some strings/unintentionally hit other strings occasionally. It's certainly better than 17mm, but 19mm still seems to be the most comfortable with me. I think I can live with 18mm though.

 

Actually, another thought...I put the stock bridge back onto the Conklin before I sold it, which means I've got the Hipshot bridge with adjust string spacing lying around. Hmmm...I might check to see if the existing screw holes line up. I'd kinda hate to drill 3 new holes in that nice Zebrawood body...but it might be worth it. Changing the bridge is a really simple thing, as long as you pre-drill the holes the right size and in the right places! We'll see...I notice they put ABM bridges with adjustable string spacing on the new Killer B models...

 

Dave

[Gruuve]

I'm making some minor adjustments to the setup to fit my preferences. It's odd, but I'm getting a strong buzz on the A-string at the 7th and 8th fret. I've tried raising the string height at the bridge quite high, but I still get a buzz. Kinda strange, I can't see or feel any high spots on the 9th fret, which is where it seems to be coming from.

 

I believe these DR compression wound strings (maybe Lo-Riders or Fat Beams)...I'm almost wondering if it's actually a loose winding in the string that's buzzing, and not a string/fret thing. I have seen a couple comments about the Lo-Riders occasionally having a self-rattling string...I may try a new set of strings to see if it cures the problem.

 

Otherwise, the setup is pretty good...the neck has a fairly small amount of relief, although comparing it to my Stingray5, I could probably get it a little flatter with a minor truss rod tightening. I cut a 36" aluminum yard-stick down to 27", and I generally lay that edge-down between the strings from the 1st fret to the 24th/22th fret, then look at the space between the yardstick and the 5th and 7th frets to get an idea of relief. The Stingray5 is actually closer (relief equal to about half the thickness of a dime, strings low, and not a buzz anywhere!), while the Tobias and G&L are both roughly the thickness of a dime (I was tweaking the G&L a bit before I picked up the Tobias, now my focus is on it). I'll probably try new string first, then do any neck adjustments.

 

Anyone else had this issue of a buzz just at 1-2 frets near the middle, just out of curiosity?

 

UPDATE: Ah...I'm now convinced that it is indeed the string itself that's buzzing and not the string vibrating against a fret. I get the buzz also if I fret at the 9th fret, but if I even lightly touch the string at the 8th while holding the note at the 9th, the buzz stops. It's gotta be loose rattling string windings...bizarre. Just got to make it across town (hopefully before worship band rehearsal tommorrow night) to get some new strings.

 

Dave

[Gruuve]

You guys asked for a sample...this is the Tobias recorded direct through the BBE BMax preamp. (Also posted this on Alex's birthday thread.)

 

http://www.ipass.net/davesisk/music/other/FunkyBirthday.mp3

 

I fixed the nut-buzz issue...just a small spot of super-glue in two of the slots in the nut (no bone-dust, just super-glue), then shaped it by "sanding" it with an old string of the right guage. No mo' buzz between the middle frets and the nut.

 

I think I mentioned there was a very small chip in the pau ferro fretboard under the G-string, 5th fret (looked like maybe it had fallen forward and hit a sharp corner at some point? The pau ferro is really hard, so makes sense that it might chip rather than dent.) I've fixed that with a some superglue and pau ferro sawdust that a luthier off TalkBass mailed me for free. Cool deal...the chip was very hard to see before, but now it's completely unnoticeable (both visually and via feel), and the repair should last essentially forever.

 

Also, I noticed some of the screws in the bridge were binding when I tried to do an adjustment (this was the older Tobias bridge, not the newer ABM's that are used now). Turns out, someone replaced two of the saddle intonation adjustment screws and springs, and I don't believe they used exactly the right thread. So, since I have the very similar but more adjustable Hipshot bridge lying around, I switched those out. This puts the string spacing a little wider (and adjustable), so I'm very pleased with the result.

 

Still got just a minor neck/truss adjustment to do, but I'm still loving this one. The action is just a little higher than I like, but it still plays as well as my other basses with lower action...haven't quite figured out why that's the case though. I will likely try to get it just a little lower with just a tad less neck relief. I kind of like to take my time getting a bass adjusted to suit me...seems like I get a better end result that way.

 

UPDATE: I uploaded a better performance and mix of the sound clip...if you downloaded it earlier, download a fresh copy.

 

Dave

[Tom Capasso]

thanks for the update.

glad to hear that you're still enjoying this bass!

 

Tom

[jlrush]

Very nice Dave, sweet looking bass.

I guess you don't have any 4 stringers in the family, eh?

 

Enjoy!

[Gruuve]

Hmmm...ya know, I thought the strings on this guys were some flavor of DR's (not LoRiders), but now I'm not so sure. They are very smooth/slick feeling, and there's some fiber-looking stuff starting to fray on one of the strings that sees a lot of fingerpicking action. Could these be coated Elixirs maybe? (I thought all the coatings were colored? Are there clear ones?) These strings are very silver-looking, have no cloth on the ends, and sound like stainless steel to me. They have stayed very bright. That fraying though looks like some sort of polymer to me...could it be?

 

Dave

[saxofunk]

Elixirs are like that, they look pretty much like regular strings, then the coating will come off and it's kind translucent white.

 

The only DR coated strings I've used are the black ones, but I think they have a set twhere the coating is clear... maybe Bootzillas.

[Gruuve]

Ah...thanks Matt...you da man...

 

The folks at Sam Ash replaced the broken frequency selector switch for me yesterday for free (finally). Cool...everything is now as it should be. I particularly like the low voicing setting on the mid-control (250Hz)...that adds lots of thickness without a huge level increase like you get from the bass control.

 

I'm planning to do a very minor truss rod adjustment today or tommorrow..."new has worn off" impression: this is still a sweet bass. Talk about some bite! I've dialed down the slap contour scoop to almost it's minimum value...I'm liking that feature a lot now. The "scoop" is minimal enough that that tone is still quite useable as a fingerstyle tone as well, so very cool.

 

One thing I am really REALLY liking in the electronics is the ability to individually set the pickup output level...I have the bridge pickup hotter than the neck pickup, so panning between pups there's no feeling of big low-end loss...dial in more bridge and it punches like a pneumatic nail gun! Oh yeah... Why don't all active preamps have this feature?

 

Dave

[Tenstrum]

Originally posted by lug:

Only recording I have so far:

 

http://users3.ev1.net/~woodd/huntforexposure.mp3

(appologies to Tony Levin)

 

I'm more impressed with this bass every time I play it. Mine has the older 9 volt electronics. I hear the newer 18 volt stuff sounds even better.

I totally dug the way your Carvin sounds.

It just oozes "Growl"...

[saxofunk]

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

Ah...thanks Matt...you da man...

Aw shucks. [blush]

 

One thing I am really REALLY liking in the electronics is the ability to individually set the pickup output level...I have the bridge pickup hotter than the neck pickup, so panning between pups there's no feeling of big low-end loss...dial in more bridge and it punches like a pneumatic nail gun! Oh yeah... Why don't all active preamps have this feature?

+1. That certainly would save me from some of the insane adjustments I've made to my basses. I have just come to the conclusion that most bridge pickups are there to add color or cancel hum. I'm probably wrong.

 

Glad you got all your electronics figured out on this one!