Band trouble. (Long post)

[Ross Brown]

Trouble is a brewing for my band!

 

Our band leader is the drummer. He and the singer are original members. The rhythm guitarist, lead guitarist and I are new. We practice weekly since February and have had some practice gigs where we learned a lot. We are about ready to go a gigging. We have easily three hours of music (probably a lot more, if you count the jamming we could do). We are a cover band (rock/blues).

 

The history: The previous version of this band had a wacky guitarist that could drink too much and apparently was unpredictable, personally and musically. This particular guitarist left the band last year to join another band then the bass player left. This resulted in a cancellation of ~45 gigs. I am not sure why a replacement couldnt be found to avoid some of these cancellations.

 

The current version of this band sounds very good musically (singing is variable). Guitarist is best I have worked with.

 

We were scheduled for practice this Friday, as usual. We were considering another practice gig at a local pub that allows us to run through a set instead of a regular practice. On Wednesday we found out that they wanted us to do it Thursday instead of Friday though. OK, no problem. We all could make it except the guitarist. For some reason he was busy. Cool, no problem. He only had 24 hours notice. He didnt cancel on us; he simply was busy and could not agree to be there.

 

Apparently this has inflamed the band leader. He has called into question the guitarists commitment to the band, etc He wants to audition 2 other guitarists on Sunday because he doesnt trust this guy, has a bad feeling, etc.. etc.. Another concern he has is that he is sure the fact that the guitarist works on Saturdays will lead to him not wanting to play on Friday nights. (BTW the singer works Friday nights third shift, as soon as the gigs end). He has been late to a couple of practices. This pissed off everyone but no one wanted to say anything to him, so I did. (I simply said I dont care when we start but I dont like to wait, etc). He is on time now.

 

I like the guy. He is quiet but talented and I really have not seen anything that leads me to feel he is not committed to the band. He has suggested alternative practice times/days, but so have I and the rest of the band. He has another (acoustic) gig but that one plays about once every 2-3 months. We knew this from the beginning, so what

 

My response was that I will not go behind his back and audition another guitarist. I suggest that he ask him if he will commit to our gigging schedule even if it means a lot of Friday nights (duh..). [i assume that anyone that is in a cover band knows that they will be playing on the weekends, but OK, let's ask him]. I also am not interested in investing the time to break in a new guitarist unless we really need to. I believe this to be personal baggage on the part of the drummer and it is self defeating.

 

His response was that he will likely audition other guitarists on Sunday just as an insurance policy for the band. He is afraid that if he says anything to the guitarist questioning his commitment, he will quit. I dont think he will. I offered to talk with him (I dont have the baggage). If he were to quit, so be it. If we audition someone behind his back without talking to him, he will quit. I would!

 

Then I start to over analyze. Hummm why are we afraid to be successful??? Hummm.. why do we want to avoid gigging by making the guitarist quit..?? hummm??

 

Sorry for the long post. Is this normal in band settings? I have not seen this crap before.

[Dave Brown]

It never hurts to have a sub available. There are always unforeseen circumstances.

 

Your guitarist may or may not be totally committed to the band. After all, if he's the "best (you've) ever worked with" I'm sure he has other opportunities.

 

Your band leader may or not be too hyper about the band. He may have the personality that forces him to think this is his last, best chance for rock stardom. I wouldn't last long in that band, I fear.

 

Everyone has their own rationale for what they do. Everyone has a life to live, which will be at variance with other folks.

 

A band is an agreement; like a marriage.

 

One of the things I would tell this band leader is to come to terms with everyone. Specifically, discuss that if the band has an opportunity and one member can't fulfill it, he, as a leader, needs to have an agreement in advance that a sub will be called. Subs have to be at practices; in fact if I were going to have to give a gig to a sub, I'd ask him to attend a concert or rehearsal right before the gig with a notepad and pencil. I'd expect my sub to play the part more or less how I play it.

 

In fact, I've done that several times...both as a sub myself and as one who needed a sub.

 

Also, the guitarist should have some input on who his sub should be.

 

I definitely don't think a band should make a decision behind someone's back. Bad karma, that.

[butcherNburn]

I'm sure many people here have experienced similar situations. We all know a band is like a marriage between 3-6 people.

 

The only advice I have is for everyone to sit down and talk. It doesn't have to be a "let's call a band meeting" formal occasion. Just without people getting angry and accusing people, sit down and say, "Here are the types of gigs we will be doing, do you think you'll be able to keep the schedule?"

Ask that of everyone. All the sidebars and separate conversations, and doing things behind others back are what will kill the marriage.

 

And one person not being able to make a casual set run through on 1 days notice, one time, shouldn't be a big deal. The guy who has to work 3rd shift after a gig will definitely hurt you as far as how far the gigs are from his job.

[Ross Brown]

The guitarist is good. He could find other opportunities, etc. I don't think he is looking or interested, etc. But them again he gets to play with a great bass player that keeps impecable time and renders beautiful fills.

 

It is just strange to see someone get so worked up about phantom issues. I swear i don't see it.

[TimR]

In our band we all go out and get gigs individually. What is interesting is the reaction when we can't do a gig because one of our members is busy. It ranges from.

1. Sack the member because of lack of commitment.

2. Can we get a dep in.

3. Can we do the gig without said person.

4. Oh well they'll be other gigs,

 

dependent on who has found the gig, not dependent on who cannot do it...

 

Tell the band leader to get a grip and look at the other possibilities. If the pub wants you to play, thats half the battle. Just rearrange the date.

[Aldena]

This sounds like normal behavior for many bands until they find the right personel or eventually break up.

 

The subject of using subs can be touchy depending on the circumstances. In what looks like a selfish attempt to push two members out, our drummer, who has become a total twit, booked a gig in late July that two members can't make(husband and wife, vocals/keys, there's old baggage there). Over the course of the last three weeks, he has created some serious tension among us, and really alienated himself.

 

It's all about egos.

[Ross Brown]

My day job has helped me understand how to deal with people. What is right and wrong. There is a certain style to getting people to work together. I had hoped that playing in a band would be an outlet to relax and get away from personnel issues. I have trouble just staying back and watching a destructive spiral develop.

 

I assume people will inherently perform well and behave themselves until demonstrated otherwise. The band leader assumes they will not, until demonstrated otherwise.

 

In a band situation, whose view is more likely to be accurate? Mine or his. I am willing to be told that I don't have enough experience with this, but I am not sure that is the case.

[TimR]

Originally posted by Aldena:

our drummer, who has become a total twit, booked a gig in late July that two members can't make

And here lies the real problem. Sometimes in peoples keenness to get gigs they forget the basics. Make sure the band can all make the gig before promising to do it.

 

Whether the drummer did this out of spite or just because he couldn't sit back and wait a few days is obviously bought into question in Aldena's case, but many people will start shouting and pointing fingers to cover up their own mistakes.

 

In Ross' case the Band leader is obviously very keen on playing and is not able to sit back and look at the whole picture. He may start to learn when all the bands he is in all fall apart. But unfortunately when people leave a band they don't always give their true reasons, so he may never realise it is his fault.

 

I'm all for getting a dep in if someone pulls out and it is a big gig, otherwise don't book the gig in the first place. There will be other chances.

[TimR]

Ross,

 

never Assume. Assume is an ass with u and me.

[Cozmicslop]

And here lies the real problem. Sometimes in peoples keenness to get gigs they forget the basics. Make sure the band can all make the gig before promising to do it.

Whether the drummer did this out of spite or just because he couldn't sit back and wait a few days is obviously bought into question in Aldena's case, but many people will start shouting and pointing fingers to cover up their own mistakes.

Two years ago my group exploded over this very issue. One Freaking gig. Drummer insisted on playing this one joint every week. For effin tips! It was a cool way to get tight, but there were other places we could have been playing. He threatened to replace me in a band that I organized.

 

He found himself alone in the cold when the others guys wouldn't go for it.

 

Did I mention this was over ONE damn gig?

 

He replaced us all with decent studio players whose wives don't want them playing at clubs period. Now he never gets to play out unless he's subbing.

 

All that to say, it's silly getting all worked up over one damn show, especially a tune up.

[Aldena]

See, I told you you was normal.

[Ross Brown]

Originally posted by Aldena:

 

In what looks like a selfish attempt to push two members out, our drummer, who has become a total twit, booked a gig in late July that two members can't make(husband and wife, vocals/keys, there's old baggage there).

 

It's all about egos.

I wonder if perhaps our drummer didn't want an excuse to try out a new guitarist for some reason, that is beyond me, and created a situation in which would play into his feelings (schedule a gig in 24 hours and then be upset when the guitarist couldn't make it). ie prove himself right.

 

I myself can't guarentee (sp) that I will be available for every opportunity, but I will be available for every opportunity that I agree to accept. I told him that and he agreed. I don't know his agenda. If he just doesn't like the guy, he should just send him packing, face to face. I would likely be looking for another band myself at that point. What a waste.

 

Maybe just pre gigging jitters for this band. I don't get it. It is like a bunch a school kids. We are old enough to do better than this (40s-mid 50s). It is going to kill it if it doesn't stop.

[Ross Brown]

Originally posted by TimR:

Ross,

 

never Assume. Assume is an ass with u and me.

Cut me a break.

[TimR]

You're not supposed to take offence at that. I would hope people are good until proved otherwise too. But I still watch with a bit of healthy scepticism.

[Ross Brown]

No offense taken. It was meant like a "moan" at a bad joke...

 

I do think the best of people until they mess up. I get burned sometimes.

[Aldena]

Originally posted by TimR:

Ross,

 

never Assume. Assume is an ass with u and me.

My dad always said "it makes and ass out of u and me".

 

 

I do think the best of people until they mess up. I get burned sometimes.

Same here. But I don't want to be skeptical of everyone I meet. That's evil.

[TimR]

Originally posted by Ross Brown:

No offense taken. It was meant like a "moan" at a bad joke...

 

I do think the best of people until they mess up. I get burned sometimes.

Splendid, this typing what you say lark is hard to get across what you mean isn't it.

And Yes I'm still getting burned.

 

Aldena you're right, I couldn't remember the proper line, but the sentiment was there. I think its an old crossword favourite.

[TimR]

We had a similar sort of situation where the drummer wanted one of the singers out. Really we all wanted her to leave because we felt that she was holding us back with her singing ability, but he had lots of plans on how to go about it. Problem was she was very keen, never missed a gig or practise etc. In the end we just asked her outright, better in the long run and no hard feelings afterwards. We are mature adults after all.

[Ross Brown]

Originally posted by TimR:

We had a similar sort of situation where the drummer wanted one of the singers out. Really we all wanted her to leave because we felt that she was holding us back with her singing ability, but he had lots of plans on how to go about it. Problem was she was very keen, never missed a gig or practise etc. In the end we just asked her outright, better in the long run and no hard feelings afterwards. We are mature adults after all.

Yes. I hate games. Maybe drummer is just telling it like he sees it. He is wrong. That is how I see it.

[Phil W]

The drummer sounds like a $**^$ but then he's (hopefully getting you gigs). Wy on Earth can't people just talk to each other. I don't think this kind of situation is normal. In my situations in the last few years, people have been more straight-up. Why can't he just talk to the guitarist?

People who use the word 'commitment' when talking about cover bands and the like are just using it as a smokescreen. If one guy can't make it, you use another - if the gig pays I'm sure someone who can play the stuff would want it. When I had my own band I had three drummers that I used regularly as they were often busy. They knew wthe score and there was no bad feelings, just valuable gigs.

[chubby]

Well first of all I dont see why your so upset.But I also dont know how your band is lined up I mean do you have a keyboard player or not and do you have more then one guitar player or not. Some of the best bands I know dont even have a lead guitar.

[Ross Brown]

Update:

 

This weekend, I had a long talk with the drummer. I expressed my feelings and told him I won't be part of going behind a band members back. I explained that subs are fine, etc but we should all be in on it. etc...

 

Our rhythym guitarist called me this weekend too and asked me about this situation. He was thinking it was strange and inappropriate etc... He wondered what I thought. I told him. He seemed relieved that we felt the same way.

 

I told drummer/leader that if he auditioned anyone without everyone being present, I am out. If lead guitarist quits because he pisses him off, I am out. And to spend more energy on keeping the band working together and playing than creating phantom problems. He sent me an e mail telling me to relax, there would be no auditions, etc... I think there was.

 

Will be interesting. Seems like this thread is getting boring, sorry. I should probably just pull the plug on this one and move on.

[Rowbee]

Interesting how so many of the situations people have referred to here seem to be created by drummers?

 

Ross, unfortunately this situation is very common and talking openly is the only way to get through it. I think it's probably more usual for a band of people in their early 20's who are trying to "make it" - I'm getting a little too old for band politics.

[Ross Brown]

Rowbee, my plan is to 1) find out if the auditions occured regardless of the fact that he assured me that they would not. If they did. It is done, I am out. 2) if we are still good, I plan to type up a short list of my the expectations and potential conflicts/issues of us band members, as I see them and present it to the band in a generic form (not pointing to anyone). That way we have a chance at all being on the same page and bringing to light any issues now, so we can address them. ie real issues, not phantom problems in our minds.

 

This might help the drummer see how easy it can be to bring up issues and discuss them. Sometimes it is no fun, but it is not hard to do.

 

We are older and this crap should be beyond us, I agree.

[TimR]

Originally posted by Rowbee:

Interesting how so many of the situations people have referred to here seem to be created by drummers?

I blame their insecurities on us. We continually rib them about their inability to play quietly, and how they are not real musicians, and they must start to feel a bit left out when we start talking about chord names etc....

 

Occasionally I'll use words like syncopation just to keep them involved.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Originally posted by Ross Brown:

It is like a bunch a school kids. We are old enough to do better than this (40s-mid 50s).

Hah ! Forgive me for being sceptical but the only time I was in where we had issues of this kind (going behind certain band member's backs and replacing them and so on and so on) was when I was in a band with players in their 40s and 50s.

 

At the time I have to admit I was too much of a sheep myself (because most musicians are sheep: they simply follow the biggest one of the bunch without thinking for themselves) to act upon it and I'm not proud of certain decisions to which I did not object at the time. Yes, I have my share of the blame to take upon me.

 

Sounds like so far you are going about it the right way, and I'd say keep it up. I learnt that honesty doesn't always get you places ... (I once cancelled a rehearsal because I didn't feel like driving over an hour on a hot Saturday afternoon to go through the motions. Man did I get burnt for that) ... but in the end it's you that you have to take into account.

 

Call me selfish, but if I'm not having fun for any reason, I'll walk. You have set limits to where this drummer can go, and I can only applaud you for it.

[Ross Brown]

Yea, thanks. I alway (try) to do and say things that I would be comfortable looking someone in the eye and taking responsibility for it.

 

Many many people do not operate this way. My ethics aren't perfect but when I stray, it is usually because I am lazy or uninformed, not purposeful.

 

We will see how it goes. I can live with myself. I hope that sometime, somewhere, someone feels inclined to stand up for me, if the need arises.

[Ross Brown]

Just to add intrigue to the mix, I just now saw Wanted Ad for a lead guitarist for our band in the regional music rag. This ad would have to have been placed by May 22 in order to be in this (July) issue. Apparently this "need" to replace our guitarist has been brewing longer than I knew. Sounds like we set up our guitarist once we had a chance to advertise and get a few prospects on the hook.

 

Do I share this with the guitarist? I have never advertised for someones replacement before I fired them (and would not fire this guy, I would fire the rest of the band first). What the heck???

[Rowbee]

That's a really, really poor show.

 

I would suggest you challenge the drummer first - what you do after that is up to you but let's face it, he lied to you in that email.

 

Are good drummers hard to find in your area? It's just a thought that the most difficult person in the band is not the guitarist?

[TimR]

That's outrageous!

 

I think Phil's comment about a coverband having room for plenty of trained up deps holds a bit of water, but if he's going to replace someone without asking anyone else's opinion thats just not on! Doesn't do any good for morale. It leaves everyone wondering who was next on his list for the chop.

 

Maybe you should audition some drummers, just in case he can't make a gig.