Sets length and breaks

[Ross Brown]

I have recently been to several gigs (watching, not playing ) where the sets are short and the breaks are long. ie 50 minute sets and 25 minute breaks. This makes me as mad as when musicians talk (a lot)to the audience between songs.

 

My band is about to head out to gigging land. Is there an acceptable "standard" for set lengths and break lengths?

 

Who is the limiting factor? Singer? I find that at rehearsal, when I would like a break I don't need long. Just a drink of water and a chance for my hand to relax and my mind to slow down.

 

I realize that a lot will depend on the type of gig. What is good? What is bad? I notice that the venues tend to clear out during the long breaks. Not cool.

[moot]

When I was in the "Bar Band", we would normally do 4-45's with a 15 minute break in between. Usually the people needed a rest as much as we did.

Now that I am doing private parties exclusivly, there really is no standard. Sometimes for a 3 hour gig we will play 2 sets with a short break in between. Kinda depends on the crowd though. If they are dancing we keep playing - if they get tired and the floor clears we take a break.

 

I have been to events where the band disappears for 25 or 30 minutes and I think that is entirely unprofessional.

[Phil W]

Depends on the venue and the event. We usually do 60-90 minute sets with a 30 minute break in my main coverband, sorry Mattulator. I'd prefer shorter breaks but sometimes after the break, the audience really gets going. It's usually as requested by the venues/agents.

[owens hound]

In the bar band I played with we would do 4 1 hours sets and have 5-10 minute breaks in between sets. Just enough time for a washroom break or to say hi to patrons and friends.

 

Jason

[Ross Brown]

Originally posted by owen's hound:

In the bar band I played with we would do 4 1 hours sets and have 5-10 minute breaks in between sets. Just enough time for a washroom break or to say hi to patrons and friends.

 

Jason

yes. That sounds good. I know that our singers will need to step out to smoke. 5 minutes. I can't believe that they smoke. They sound like it.

[wishicouldplaylikescottamb]

I think the audience needs a break as much if not more than the band. Audio fatigue can really make it unpleasant even if the band and the band's sound is good. And let's face it, most people go out to socialize as much as to see a good band - the break gives people time to talk without having to yell to be heard which can get old after a while. My cover band usually plays 2 90 minute sets with a 30 minute break. It seems to work well and we've never gotten a complaint from any club owner or management.

[Ross Brown]

Originally posted by wishicouldplaylikescottambush:

I think the audience needs a break as much if not more than the band. Audio fatigue can really make it unpleasant even if the band and the band's sound is good. And let's face it, most people go out to socialize as much as to see a good band - the break gives people time to talk without having to yell to be heard which can get old after a while. My cover band usually plays 2 90 minute sets with a 30 minute break. It seems to work well and we've never gotten a complaint from any club owner or management.

This is a good point too. I do believe that we could generate "audio fatigue".

[wishicouldplaylikescottamb]

Maybe that should've been "aural fatigue".

[Seamy ALB]

Here in N Ireland with my Bar band the normal gig lenghth is 2 and half hours with a break at about the hour and a half point. The night is normally music start at 10:30pm, break at 12:00 for 10-15 min and finish at 1:00am give or take a little.

 

The ALB set can vary from 50 mins with all our own material to 2 hours straight through with a mix of Covers.

 

After the break is normally when the party really starts, social lubrication being what it is!!

[...]

My cover band usually plans on 3 60 minute sets with 20 minute breaks. We often have to modify this to fit whatever the club/hiring agent wants. Some people actually want short sets with long breaks. I'm not sure what the thinking is behind that but whatever. If I had things my way we'd play 3 90 minute sets a night with 10-15 minute breaks. I'm there to play not socialize.

[josh a]

We have only ever done one 30 minute set.

I'm too tired and have lost too much water by the end..

[Ross Brown]

Originally posted by josh a:

We have only ever done one 30 minute set.

I'm too tired and have lost too much water by the end..

What ??? Wow...

[...]

Originally posted by josh a:

We have only ever done one 30 minute set.

I'm too tired and have lost too much water by the end..

You need to have a few bottles of water on the stage with you if that's the case. You also may have to cut down a bit on the jumping around and/or get into better physical shape. I'm just suggesting here so forgive me if you're the pinnacle of physical fitness or have some sort of ailment that is doing this to you.

[Phil W]

You must be the most energetic band in history, josh!

 

We often play in pubs and social clubs where they have bingo and need a decent break for this to be played.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housie

It's a gambling game played mostly, but not excusively, by older working class women.

 

Noise, even talking during Bingo is not tolerated and opens up the offending musician to the risk of a volley of verbal abuse from the old dears (Monty Python style). The band usually withdraws outside or to a separate bar (in fear).

 

In most of the venues we play, longish breaks are expected to give the audience chance to talk and even chat to the band. I agree with iwishicouldplaylikescottambush (who's scott ambush?) particularly as I'm often playing venues where people haven't come specifically to hear us or even the music in particular.

 

As soon as people start to leave, though, it's time to get back on stage sharpish!

 

Sometimes too we get asked to delay playing or even soundchecking because they are watching the football/soccer.

[Rocky McDougall]

About 20 years ago my wife and I went to a Bruce Springsteen concert in Dallas, Tx.

They played continuosly for 3 1/2 hours and never took a break. I was totally exhausted.

Rocky

[josh a]

Originally posted by Bumpcity:

Originally posted by josh a:

We have only ever done one 30 minute set.

I'm too tired and have lost too much water by the end..

You need to have a few bottles of water on the stage with you if that's the case. You also may have to cut down a bit on the jumping around and/or get into better physical shape. I'm just suggesting here so forgive me if you're the pinnacle of physical fitness or have some sort of ailment that is doing this to you.

Mmm, water would be a good idea, I only ever had it onstage once.

I am fit, I ride bmxes everyday so.

Non-smoker!

[TimR]

Putting my Health and Safety hat on.

 

40 minutes should be the max in any one hour, if you are playing regularly as you will start to run the risk of RSI. There are a few people here complaining of various injuries like Carpel Tunnel etc. So don't shout me down on this.

 

Where's Wally? The union probably has something like this written into contracts.

 

Also as has been mentioned the risk of hearing loss in your audience if you are playing at over 100dB, they are risking permanent hearing loss. We of course are all wearing our approved ear plugs (Erm I think mine are in my case somewhere....)

Now as far as I know there have been no major law suits over sound levels but it's only a matter of time, and a good test case. You could argue audiences are free to leave if they want, and I have been to the occasional gig where there have been warnings printed on the ticket but this is the exception rather than the norm.

 

Anyway back to reality, we do 3 50min-1hr sets with 20 mins max between sets, depending on requirements.We have little or no break between tunes as we have written our own segues for a lot of tunes, play a few medleys, and our drummer is insistent that once people are dancing the show doesn't stop. If you're not ready when he counts 1234 you miss the first beat. We play covers for weddings and dinner and dances etc.

[RHINO_ROB]

usually we do 45 min. to an hour with 10 to 15 min. break between(up to 4 sets) usually 9 to 1:30/1:45 . we have been known to do 4 hours straight at one particular venue. if you quit playing for more than 5 min. the people leave. if you don't they don't and more people come in.

[Max Valentino]

Hmmm....

My "steady" gig of late has been as the "house band" at Buck Owen's Crystal Palace in Bakersfield. The venue is, as they say "tres nice" (pro sound system and crew, pro light system and crew..great mons...and a packed house every weekend!)

We judge our set lengths on the audience. Usually from our initial downbeat the dance floor is packed; and only rarely does it ever thin out! And, so we go and go (like that 'lil Engergizer Bunny) til folks start to look a bit "tuckered out". Then we get a 15-20 min break and go the rest of the night. Usually that first set is 90min-2hrs long, and, by the way, this band does nearly every tune as a segue, and do not go off a set list; with three very strong and capable lead vocalists (who know literally thousands of tunes...and not just country: the other night I got to do a little Larry Graham thing by calling "ThankYou","Dance To the Music" "I wanna Take You Higher" and "If You Want me to Stay" as a medley...and they knew it (or at least could follow!) there is a deep,deep well of material to draw from (the "all segue" format was murder on me when I was learning all these tunes; normally they do not "call" titles, just do the intros and everyone knows where they are. If I were to ask what the tune was I would usually get met with the reply "Key of G!"....yea, big help!)

 

Needless to say this gig has sharpened my "faking" chops considerably!! Often I am called on to do tunes that not only do I not know, but have never even heard before!

 

We have, a number of times, played a single set from 8pm to Midnight. At first it was hard, but one develops stamina and now it really is not that big a deal to play from 2 to 4 hours straight thru (and mind you I am in my mid-40s..and I dance about quite a bit while playing onstage).

 

I do a regular solo-bass gig every month where I improvise for 41/2 hours without a break (but then I do sit for that one!). That is a great test of both stamina and creative abilities.

 

But, I once played 47 gigs in a 30 day period (with five different bands), and it is not uncommon for me to, on a "day off", play bass for 14+ hours in a day...just practicing. So, does that make me the Ironman of bass-dom?

 

Max

[jlrush]

Playing times and length of breaks have varied for different bands and venues I've played, but sets of 45 minutes to 1 hour has been the norm, with breaks no longer than 20 minutes.

 

It's not good if people start leaving a bar gig because we are there to keep people IN the place, and drinking, of course.

[Max Valentino]

Oh, btw........

This gig is basically a country gig, and so not terribly loud either onstage or for audience (nontheless, I do wear plugs). The sound system is state-of-the-art and ear fatigue (for either party) has never been an issue.

 

As to RSI's...I have been very lucky to never encounter this. I chalk it up to having good technique, and taking the time to learn how the muscles in one's body work (and to never trying to beat a bass into submission: wood and steel beat flesh and bone everytime!). I play with a very light touch, and proper wrist and elbow angles, good posture and a lightweight instrument. I keep my body relaxed, mind clear ( I never drink/smoke on a gig...never.) and well hydrated (multiple bottles of H20 onstage....)

I experience no symptoms of tendonitis, no pain in joints/fingers...and only occasionally some back pain from the disc I had removed last year; which was a surgery related not to bass playing but to the moving of big heavy gear (something I have since given up!)

 

Max

[Phil W]

So, does that make me the Ironman of bass-dom?

 

Yes, Max!

[Seamy ALB]

Originally posted by Phil W:

So, does that make me the Ironman of bass-dom?

 

Yes, Max!

2nd that motion!!

 

I did 21 days straight one summer when I was in college while holding down a day job 7-3 shift. I slept for 2 and a half days straight when it finished. The gigs where a mix of wedding, folk, rock, metal and country and I wasn't getting into bed untill about 3 each morning.

 

It was very Tough!!

[Ross Brown]

Originally posted by Phil W:

So, does that make me the Ironman of bass-dom?

 

Yes, Max!

Impressive. Sounds like a blast.

[wishicouldplaylikescottamb]

Originally posted by Phil W:

I agree with iwishicouldplaylikescottambush (who's scott ambush?) particularly as I'm often playing venues where people haven't come specifically to hear us or even the music in particular.

He's the bass player for Spyro Gyra http://www.spyrogyra.com/

and I wish I could play like him.

[Phil W]

Thanks Keith!

[Tone Taster]

The best thing to do is have a 45/15 format w/ some "wiggle room"

 

SOmetimes when you are playing, no one will show up until you are about to break on your first set or perhaps even the second

 

If that happens, you need to play a few more songs to keep them there, but not so many, that they will feel that their "service experience" has been completed.

 

YOu want to "tease the new crowd coming in enough to wwhere they will stick around

 

THis is where you have to be MILITANT with the band about returning to the stage in 15 minutes so the crowd doesn't leave

 

Definitely repeat several times that you will be right back in 15 minutes

[Big Daddy from Motown]

The basic set length in Detroit has always been 40 0n 20 off. You tend to stretch the sets out to 45 or 50 minutes in length to come out even at the end of the night.

[JPJ]

The best thing to do is have a 45/15 format w/ some "wiggle room"

This is what I've always found to be the case. It's tought to establish a balance between playing, which is what you're there to do, and socializing and showing appreciation to those who show up. The same can be said at the end of a show...the priority is usually getting gear off the stage/loaded and making sure that something doesn't get left or stolen. But...you should also chat with and hang with the people who came out to see the show.

[Wally Malone]

I don't do club gigs much anymore. Years ago when playing clubs the norm was 40 & 20. On some gigs you had to throw in an hour for one of the sets to make it work out. Most of the gigs I do now are either an hour or a ninety minute show. There are a lot of variables from the length of the gig and the venues. In Reno in the lounges there are a lot of 4 hour gigs. The casinos are a different animal where most of the time the bands will play hour sets and have two half-hour breaks during the four hour gig.

 

In symphony orchestras for their rehearsals(normally 2.5 hours) they'll take a break after an hour to ninety minutes, usually for fifteen minutes. If there is overtime called (usually .5 hour) after the 2.5 hours there is a break of 5 minutes. The terms are spelled out in each orchestras collective bargaining agreement.

 

Back to the club gigs. As others have pointed out, sometimes it's good to have the flexibility to read the crowd and do the best you can to hold them. I remember from the years I played in clubs that it always seemed like a bad idea to take a break near midnight since it gave the customers time to head to another bar and still catch the last set of another group. As others have pointed out many times the schedule is dictated by the venue owner or the agent that booked the gig.

 

The physical demands on the gig are something everyone should consider to prevent injury. If a venue owner or agent are unreasonable the musicians should speak up.

 

Wally