Speaker question

[glorth2]

I'm looking at getting a combo amp and am considering the Eden Nemisis line. I am surprised to see that the 212 handles 320 watts while the 115 only 250. I would've thought the bigger speaker (albeit only 1) would've been able to handle more power. I'm considering the 212 but am concerned about the 212's ability to handle the lows as well as a 115. Am I off my rocker on this?

 

Thanks

[g.]

Well, it's easy to build twelves OR fifteens that will handle a lot of RMS and there are TWO of them, with similar size of voice coil. The real test (and the one very few companies acknowledge) is whether they can at full RMS also deal with the excursion a high amplitude low frequency signal can make. And whether the cab iteself is tuned correctly so that this can take place.

 

That boils down to this: some cabs with pretty high RMS ratings can't deal with a lot of low-frequency signal without farting and the danger of the drivers being damaged. Especially with a B0 string this is an issue, and a lot of cab designs did not take Fives and Sixes into account. So you need to buy with a return policy or audition the cabs at gigging level with the type of bass and EQ settings you prefer to see which is going to suit you best.

[Quinn]

I understand why you expect the 15's to handle lows better than the 12's or 10's, it seems logical that bigger drivers would work better for bass.

 

However, you can get excellent bass sound from any of those speaker sizes. The Ampeg SVT has probably been used by more big name bands than any other cab in history and it features 8 10's.

 

While each configuration can work well for bass, each one sounds different. 15's respond more slowly than the 12's which respond more slowly than the 10's. Best idea is to try to play through some different cabs to see which sound you like best. Of course, bass cabs will also sound different when played solo in a music store vs. with a full band, so greenboy's suggestion to audition it with a band is the best possible scenario.

[g.]

I understand why you expect the 15's to handle lows better than the 12's or 10's, it seems logical that bigger drivers would work better for bass.

Well, maybe for low frequencies at high SPL. But not necessarily for bass guitar, which is about considerably more than fundamental for each pitch.

 

While each configuration can work well for bass, each one sounds different. 15's respond more slowly than the 12's which respond more slowly than the 10's.

That's largely myth perpetrated because some don't understand the various factors such as cab size and tuning/porting, T-S specs of various drivers of all sizes and the incremental advances in driver design. Actually in portable and touring SR where low frequencies really matter there are a number of large drivers that exhibit better transient response at the low freq's in a properly tuned cab. Partly the reason why pro subwoofers use larger speakers - nothing has come along that can do it as well as them.

 

The main differentiating factor is that smaller speakers reach further up into the spectrum before beaming and cone cry become an issue, and thus, in two-way cabs (those with tweeters too) there is less of a band-gap between the woofer and tweeter that exhibits poor directionality. Since two-way cabs are cheaper to build (and easier to sell), it makes sense in today's sonic climate to build with smaller drivers and with greater portability in mind.

[glorth2]

I'm afraid you guys are talking over my head. Bottom line is the 12s should be fine right?

[g.]

Bottom line is try them out or buy with a limited-period tryout.

 

I just attempt to straighten out any misconceptions on stuff I have a vague understanding of ; } - that's a lot more interesting to me than saying buy this don't buy that a million times a year and who knows: someday someone might build another exemplary product or make their own cool rig because I shared what I know.

[lug]

http://www.philjonesbass.com/IMAGES/PRODUCTS/SPEAKERS/8T&24B/8T&24B.jpg

 

Rated down to 25 hz

[g.]

What's even funnier than the number is that you can look at the graph of its response - though it isn't fully referenced. And it's not that good considering the volume and weight and cost of the rig.

[Big Daddy from Motown]

Where can you find the graph of the response.

I'de like to see it. Cost and weight would rule out that monster even if it sounded good, which I doubt.

[lug]

Originally posted by Big Daddy from Motown:

Where can you find the graph of the response.

I'de like to see it. Cost and weight would rule out that monster even if it sounded good, which I doubt.

homepage

http://www.philjonesbass.com/

some specs

http://www.philjonesbass.com/PRODUCTS/SPEAKERS/8T&24B.htm

[g.]

Hey Big Daddy,

 

I think they probably sound good in their own way. But they aren't the end-all and be-all in portable frequency response.

 

http://philjonesbass.com/PRODUCTS/SPEAKERS/8T&24B.htm

 

http://philjonesbass.com/IMAGES/PRODUCTS/SPEAKERS/CURVE/8T.jpg

http://philjonesbass.com/IMAGES/PRODUCTS/SPEAKERS/CURVE/24B.jpg

http://philjonesbass.com/IMAGES/PRODUCTS/SPEAKERS/CURVE/8T-&-24B.jpg

 

No mention of measurement environment and procedures, and anyone doing a little +-3dB charting can see that the printed spec isn't as astounding as what a casual glimpse of the graph suggests. it's more like a +-10 dB figure, which is not that useful in real world electric bass applications.

 

Certainly nothing that would suggest that multiple small drivers have got the edge over multiway systems, and because of the comb filtering the imaging has got to be smeared all over the map.

[g.]

In fact, the +-3dB summed response for BOTH cabs in whatever method those graphs were made is only 110 Hz or so to maybe 950 Hz. Hardly the stuff spec sheet legends are made of ; }

 

Give it some slack and 100-1000 Hz +-3dB sounds downright ludicrous.

[lug]

I wasn't intending this to be an endorsement of Phil Jones cabs, just to point out that even 5 inch speakers can put out low frequencies. My Peavey 4X10 TXF can put out more bottom than my Acoustic 2X15 any day of the week.

[g.]

- and one of my several 15 subs can beat them all for low end without depending too much on the port. Still, it need a lot of power behind it, and a top cab to do the full spectrum ; }

[Big Daddy from Motown]

Thanks for the link.