the power of mass media

[Chip McDonald]

Looking over at the television. Some sort of "fans meet Kid Rock" show. 3 teen age girls from Nashville backstage. He's standing there talking about what he likes about the show most: "well. I dunno. I guess playing other people's songs! harrr har har har!!!" They have a look on their face that is.... amazing, they're totally enthralled. YET, they're staring at a guy that is just "Joe rock guy" that could be anywhere. Literally, the guy is just a "average rock dood". Standing there in a dirty wrinkled t-shirt, half-untucked, scraggly hair, scruffy beard, baggy eyes, slouch, just popped open a Miller, bleary eyed dood in jeans and sneakers. If he hadn't become Kid Rock, these girls would not only NOT look at him, they'd probably profess to being repulsed by him. But they're not, they're definitely totally absorbed. Entranced. Amazing. Put this guy at the end of the bar at the local white-trash-dive rock club, no one would notice. Kudos to KR for being the most brilliant "dood" yet... Amazing.

[Dan South]

"Great is the power of steady misrepresentation." - Charles Darwin

[Mark V]

Its a kind of odd and yet at the same time "normal" commentary on western society. He swaps his fame for sex .[most likely] I think Don Henley or someone from the Eagles said something to that effect. Lets put it this way, don't ask me why but if Kid Rock knocked on my front door right now and wanted to come in for a beer and a chat. I would become semi famous in my own country by association. Headline."Kid Rock drops in for Beer with local muso" Of course I'd supply the newspaper with a suitable photo. Come to think of it ,have you heard of Bollywood? The same thing could happen in India.Maybe its not just a western thing.

[surfjunkie]

Originally posted by Chip [b]...If he hadn't become Kid Rock, these girls would not only NOT look at him, they'd probably profess to being repulsed by him. But they're not, they're definitely totally absorbed. Entranced. Amazing. Put this guy at the end of the bar at the local white-trash-dive rock club, no one would notice. Kudos to KR for being the most brilliant "dood" yet... Amazing.[/b] hmm... this is the most confusing, vague Chip post i've ever read. ;) :D i can only assume you're [i]not[/i] being sarcastic with your last line, because you didn't go on to explain why he seems phony to you. i didn't like his music when i first heard it, but i've since gained a lot of respect for him. he seems pretty honest to me, and he's a good rock singer (imo). did you see the aerosmith tribute show a few months ago? i can't remember what tune he did, but he was [i]on[/i]. great tone, better pitch than you might expect, and some sweet rocker screams. i'm tellin' you, his next album could really rock. i only hope it has some grit, not an "over-produced" rock sound like... well, like other modern rock bands. i started a thread called "Kid Rocks!" awhile back, but no one agreed with me.

[Wewus432]

People are fascinated by scumminess. They want to be street smart, and on the edge, and hip, but the truth is most of them will always be nerds, so you have kids compensating for that by getting tattoos, piercings, listening to Kid Rock. Let's all show our individuality by acting like everyone else. The Kid seems like a nice guy but I'll bet his success surprises him as much as anyone else.

[-_dup1]

Anybody remember Eddie Murphy's monologue on Mick Jagger's sex appeal? :D I can't tell you how many women (young and middle-aged) I know who find Mick sexy... Or Steven Tyler... I don't understand it, and I don't think I ever will.

[Jotown]

Haven't you ever seen a big,fat,old,rich guy with a young hot woman? Success, money, fame, are the ultimate aphrodisiacs. It's always been that way, it always will. Jotown:)

[Tedly Nightshade]

My brother is as close to being Kid Rock as you could possibly be without actually being Kid Rock. He's not a celebrity, but he has that rough trade look with the vulnerable eyes, earned the hard way as a child. I'm always astonished to find how the ladies go for that! I put an especial value on the ones who are attracted to me but not him- not too many!

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by ....wager47: [b] i can only assume you're [i]not[/i] being sarcastic with your last line, because you didn't go on to explain why he seems phony to you. [/b][/quote]No see, that's the thing, I really believe he is actually what he appears to be. That's why it's amazing. It's like the "dood" you went to HS with who always had some thing he wanted to put on his Camaro he could buy from Western Auto and it would suddenly be "the fast damn Camaro on the planet!". That's impossible, and silly white trash-talk. But this is like sitting at a bar and this dood says "man, I'm gonna get me a band and scream and yell, and I'm going to be FAMOUS and Pamela Anderson is going to be my girl friend and I'm going to be a millionaire!" Yeah, right guy, sure... But the thing is, it's SUCH a dichotomy, he does look like what he is - I don't know, one would thing the illusion of Shhho BIzniss would wear thin right in front of teenage girls in this situation, but apparently not. [b]i didn't like his music when i first heard it, [/b] Oh, he's a musician? [b]but i've since gained a lot of respect for him. [/b] Kudos for accomplishing the implausible Beavis and Butthead scenario outlined above... [b]he seems pretty honest to me, and he's a good rock singer (imo). did you see the aerosmith tribute show a few months ago? i can't remember what tune he did, but he was [i]on[/i]. great tone, better pitch than you might expect, and some sweet rocker [/b] He has Antares to thank I think largely for his vocal ability...

[surfjunkie]

i'm still not really sure what you're saying. let me see... your thread title is "the power of mass media", and your point seems to be that they make him out to be a jd guzzlin, white trash non-talent, and you agree. am i close? i'm not a [i]huge[/i] fan of his, and i don't own any albums. and i'm not trying to do an "oh you don't like kid rock, well i [i]do[/i], so there" thing. the last 2 "rock" albums i bought were superunknown and UO's saturation, so i'm not really into modern rock and i'm certainly no expert. i do think he can really sing, though. there was one single off his last album that used the "fad for 3 minutes" over-autotune sound, but i'm sure it wasn't used on every song. if they did, they missed a few spots. rock is not perfect. some live stuff i've heard of his (on tv) rocked me. i know you can use the antares rackmount live, but i'm as sure that they didn't as you are they did- which is no proof, gut reaction. i'm not trying to go on some kid rock promotion freakout. i'm as cynical as the next guy, unless [i]you're[/i] the next guy. but i won't damn his music (yes, music) just because he's not smart enough to avoid white trash stereotypes and pam. sorry if i steered your thread into the median.

[Rog]

[quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]People are fascinated by scumminess. They want to be street smart, and on the edge, and hip, but the truth is most of them will always be nerds, so you have kids compensating for that by getting tattoos, piercings, listening to Kid Rock. Let's all show our individuality by acting like everyone else. The Kid seems like a nice guy but I'll bet his success surprises him as much as anyone else.[/b][/quote]What do you do when you want to rebel and conform at the same time? Getting some tats and piercings lets you piss of your parents AND fit in with the other kids - problem solved! :)

[Wewus432]

[b]Wager likes Kid Rock, Wager likes Kid Rock[/b] nah nah na nah nah. WTF has happened to you? I mean I can see you liking Kid Rock, but Christ man don't tell everybody.

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by ....wager47: [b]i'm still not really sure what you're saying. let me see... your thread title is "the power of mass media", and your point seems to be that they make him out to be a jd guzzlin, white trash non-talent, and you agree. am i close?[/b][/quote]No, the point is that he *is* what he appears to be - and *it still doesn't matter*. [b]i do think he can really sing, though. [/b] I think he may be able to barely sing, but it's certainly not something I'd be.... hmmm.. "intrigued" by.

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b] [quote]Originally posted by ....wager47: [b]i'm still not really sure what you're saying. let me see... your thread title is "the power of mass media", and your point seems to be that they make him out to be a jd guzzlin, white trash non-talent, and you agree. am i close?[/b][/quote]No, the point is that he *is* what he appears to be - and *it still doesn't matter*. [b]i do think he can really sing, though. [/b] I think he may be able to barely sing, but it's certainly not something I'd be.... hmmm.. "intrigued" by. What he does is obviously adequate enough, and the yelling while flash pots go off with dwarfs and strippers running around with lots of fire - that's apparently "the ticket" for him, so...[/b][/quote]

[nc]

As a young lady (well, not really a [i]lady[/i], check my nom-de-screen!), I can tell you that the particular mix of "vulnerability" x "tough guy" that KRock affects doesn't appeal to everyone despite the power of what might more accurately be termed "[i]massive[/i] media", though I know he's only an example of a symptom of what you're complaining about (I think), Chip M. The trouble is that without the same massive media marketing, we probably wouldn't have had such great exposure to the Beatles (or whatever other example one chooses---& don't suggest that "real talent will come through", we can all cite plenty of examples to rebut that!). It's an unfortunate symptom of what George Clinton once described as "social placebo syndrome"...you want something that's lacking & you take what's available in the market that [i]you are convinced is that thing[/i]. Sometimes it's good for you, sometimes it's not; the younger/less alert("if you don't pay attention you'll have to pay something else!") one is, the less one can defend oneself against such techniques hence the ever-increasing emphasis in marketing what appeals to younger "consumers". "Mind your wants because there's someone that wants your mind!" (Thanks to my Pop for the PFunk philosophic exposure!)

[Gator Wing]

VH1 did one of the shows (Behind the Music??) on Kid Rock. According to the show, he worked very hard, learned a lot, to get where he is now. Most people are simply fascinated by celebrities.

[koolkid]

i think kid rock basically represents what the major labels are looking for in artists and thats a grown man who could pass (or tries to pass) for the 15 years old weed head nut in your highschool,i mean look at fred durst, always with the baseball hat ,tshirt, the pseudo frat party trappings, meanwhile this guys getting an mba and trading junk bonds on the internet, the trade off wih major labels and promotion (keeping in line with the original thread) is that they WILL make joe blow a "rock star"no question,but until your name is on the contract you will never know how much is fantasy and how much is reality

[koolkid]

[quote]Originally posted by NC-17: [b]As a young lady (well, not really a [i]lady[/i], check my nom-de-screen!), I can tell you that the particular mix of "vulnerability" x "tough guy" that KRock affects doesn't appeal to everyone despite the power of what might more accurately be termed "[i]massive[/i] media", though I know he's only an example of a symptom of what you're complaining about (I think), Chip M. The trouble is that without the same massive media marketing, we probably wouldn't have had such great exposure to the Beatles (or whatever other example one chooses---& don't suggest that "real talent will come through", we can all cite plenty of examples to rebut that!). It's an unfortunate symptom of what George Clinton once described as "social placebo syndrome"...you want something that's lacking & you take what's available in the market that [i]you are convinced is that thing[/i]. Sometimes it's good for you, sometimes it's not; the younger/less alert("if you don't pay attention you'll have to pay something else!") one is, the less one can defend oneself against such techniques hence the ever-increasing emphasis in marketing what appeals to younger "consumers". "Mind your wants because there's someone that wants your mind!" (Thanks to my Pop for the PFunk philosophic exposure!)[/b][/quote]that was a great post

[D_dup3]

Me agree !

[meccajay]

[quote]Originally posted by gatorwing: [b]VH1 did one of the shows (Behind the Music??) on Kid Rock. According to the show, he worked very hard, learned a lot, to get where he is now. Most people are simply fascinated by celebrities.[/b][/quote]Saw it! My jaw dropped to the flor when I found out this guy was a MAJOR underground Hip Hop DJ in the Detroit area before becoming famous. And get this, he ALWAYS had the ladies!! Everyone they interviewd talked about 2 things, how great he was as a DJ, and how he always had more than enough cool to get the woman. The whole rock thing, I mean the WHOLE thing is contrived because of what Vanilla Ice did to his career(because Ice made it 1st). Great "behind the music" show, Up there with Ozzy's!

[koolkid]

just goes back to what i said,he fits the bill do you know how many awesome,groundbreaking disc jockeys their are in ny city alone and you will never see them on mtv or the grammy awards because they dont fit into this marketable framework alah kid rock,just as the threadstarter said,white dude,stringy hair,wifebeater tshirt,poppin open a miller, hes just fuel to get the lower-middle class,caucasian, population to buy records just as every other artist signed to a major label is there,to make money based on demographics i can think of 3 or 4 djays in new york who are regarded by their peers as the best in the business but cant get signed to a major label because they are openly gay and walmart wont carry their cds,put that in your pipe and smoke it..

[Felix_dup1]

[quote]white dude,stringy hair,wifebeater tshirt,poppin open a miller, hes just fuel to get the lower-middle class,caucasian, population to buy records just as every other artist signed to a major label is there,to make money based on demographics[/quote]Ummm... I don't think Kid Rock is exemplary of artists signed to get the "lower-middle class caucasian population to buy records." I do think his career fits in with the current popularity of rap-rock. I also think he's put together a tight, kick-ass Southern Rock band and he's way smarter than most people give him credit for. Oh, and he's one hell of a performer. As for the demographics that major labels are going after - from looking at the CD's being released nowadays and the Billboard charts, there are many other demographics that seem to be getting plenty of attention as well. [quote]i can think of 3 or 4 djays in new york who are regarded by their peers as the best in the business but cant get signed to a major label because they are openly gay and walmart wont carry their cds,put that in your pipe and smoke it.. [/quote]There are probably way more than 3 or 4 DJs who are worthy of major label contracts but don't have them, for whatever reason. Seems to me that the DJ market is one of the least discriminatory, though (in terms of race, sexual orientation, sex, etc.). And how can Wal-Mart carry their CDs if they haven't been signed? :confused:

[F7sound -]

Here's my 2¢ for your thoughts.... Way back in the "pre-ADAT" days of the late '80s when I was in college, I had the opportunity to play bass in a "talent show" type of event in front of several hundred of my student peers. Lemme tell you, after that deal, I had sorority chicks all over me. Why? I was the same music-geek type I was before. Only difference was I was seen on stage playing a guitar (bass). I mean chicks that I had never spoken with prior were running up to me with the old "I never knew you played guitar!!!" Line. The attention was almost too much! Hey it was actually a bass but tell that to a 19 year old sorority chick (yeh, like it matters in that situation). Mass media only helps enhance the "buzz" in a HUGE way. Bottom line: it's amazing what a $250 used bass can do for a man's popularity. Michael Oster [url=http://www.F7sound.com]F7 Sound and Vision[/url]

[koolkid]

i never mentioned anything about rap rock,although now that you mention it thats exactly what alot of kid rocks music is im not saying either that a wide variety of demographics arent represented,i was just referring to meccajays post that eluded to kid rocks success as a djay,lets face it,hes not a djay,his skills as a mixmaster are obviuously irrelevant to his success thats like saying bono was a great djay in ireland so naturally hell be a good choice to front a rock band and alot of people are pulled off the shelves or not signed at all because of their sexual orientation,politics,etc. i can list a few if you like the points i was trying to make,and its becoming a bit clouded,is that 1) kid rock was not signed for his hard work and skill as a djay he was more than likely signed because he would generate money in a totally different market and that is fairly obvious because HE IS NOT A DJAY 2) there are far better djays,who,for one reason or another,im not saying its exclusively because they are gay,or nazis or socialists,but for whatever reasons, irrespective of the awesome mixes and respect they have among their peers, will not be signed because survey says the record comapny wont have a windfall you dont think that the five major labels clear artists with the biggest cd retailer in the world??

[meccajay]

Well koolkid, to be honest I was reffering to how SHOCKING it was to learn about him being a DJ that had a lot of STREET CRED in the Michigan streets considering what he's become of late. And if you think learning how to-- record and make his own records, work a crowd, learning how to rap, and promote himself has no relevance to his career as a RAP-Rocker, then we don't have too much to discuss my brotha!

[meccajay]

Oh, by the way, he WAS signed to a label deal while being a DJ/rapper. He was later dropped/forgotten because of the disgrace that Vanilla Ice became, and how hard that made it for other so called "white" rappers.

[Felix_dup1]

No, I don't believe that 5 major labels clear artists with Wal-Mart prior to signing them.

[koolkid]

how many of my black friends,who own every conceivable rap album under the sun, own kid rock albums? answer 0 what are the chances of funkmaster flex fronting a southern rock flavored rock rap band? answer 0 promoting,rap,street credit as a djay,how does that lead to getting signed as the frontman of a rock band?i just dont see the equation jayz is light years ahead of kid rock as far as being a rapper and all the majors turned him down they only took an interest in jay when he became a zillionaire on his own vh1 tells you kidrock got signed because hes this street level rapper djay and you believe them,shame on you

[meccajay]

How many of your "black friends" lived in Detroit at the time Kid rock was doin his thing?? I never lived there, I never heard his early stuff, and I didn't even say he was good, I said the KIDS IN THAT AREA who were interviewed on camera said he was good, and they bought his records, and did feel he "next". Other known rappers of the time were interviewed in that piece as well, and they also agreed he had skills! Apparently so did a major label, who signed him and put him on a major rap tour.

[koolkid]

[quote]Originally posted by felix: [b]No, I don't believe that 5 major labels clear artists with Wal-Mart prior to signing them.[/b][/quote]well, think again,my friend works for universal in manhattan and she has to do lots of pie charts every morning yum yum