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How can I get that "Smooth Jazz" "XM 71" type sound?


SteveC

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You may have noticed that I have been inquiring about different "magic dust" devices to use with my rig. BBE, Aphex, etc. I'd really like to get a more "smooth jazz, XM71" type of bass tone. You know what I mean?

 

I get a really nice "pop/rock" sound right now so that band is covered. I don't know that I have a really good "smooth jazz" tone for the quartet. Yellowjackets, Al Jarreau, Pat Metheny, Boney James, etc.

 

You all know my gear - Yamaha 5 string with a Bartolini preamp(3-band, 3-way selectable mids)and "J style" pups. Eden 550 head and Bergie HT112 cab.

 

I'm NOT looking to swap out gear, really. I like my bass, I like my head, I like my cab. When we play a club with a dedicated sub I really sound good so I suppose a big old 15" or 18" would be cool. I suppose I could add another cab but I don't really want to add gear unless that's the only option. My amp can certainly handle it. That's why I was looking at something like a BBE to help?

 

Do you have any suggestions?

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I agree with Big Ddddy from Motown; in order to be heard with a scooped-mid EQ, you need some power and speakers behind you. Maybe a 6x10" cabinet.

 

http://www.swrsound.com/products/prod_images/swrsound/4410300000_md.jpg

 

An SWR Goliath Sr. might be able to do that job.

 

A scooped-mid EQ can make any speaker go from audible to inaudible.

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Originally posted by Big Daddy from Motown:

I think it's a lot to ask of any 1-12 cab at any significent volume level.

I was afraid of that. Those mids are so important to "cutting through" in a live setting. The 12" works just fine for the rock stuff as I pump the mids pretty well. It sounds great and cuts through just fine. I think my head has plenty of power to push another or an additional cab, but I like my small rig.

 

Maybe the "smooth jazz" thing is one tone I have to give up to stay small.

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Originally posted by getz76:

I agree with Big Ddddy from Motown; in order to be heard with a scooped-mid EQ, you need some power and speakers behind you. Maybe a 6x10" cabinet.

 

http://www.swrsound.com/products/prod_images/swrsound/4410300000_md.jpg

 

An SWR Goliath Sr. might be able to do that job.

 

A scooped-mid EQ can make any speaker go from audible to inaudible.

Any other suggestions other than a 6X10 cab!
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If you scoop the mids, there is no way you are going to be heard with that 1x12" cabinet. Impossible. You are taking all of the efficiency out because the human ear hears 1 kHz a lot better than it hears 40 Hz; combine that with the fact that the cabinet responds better at 1 kHz versus 40 Hz. The only way to counter-act that is to get more speakers (important) and more power (not as important, but still important).

 

Physics is physics. *

 

* exceptions for impedance switching devices in epoxied black boxes with two leads notwithstanding.

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Originally posted by SteveC:

Am I doomed to buying another cabinet? There's no way to make the 12" work is there?

If you're playing shows in your living room you should be set with the 1 x 12 :)

but for the bigger rooms you need to push more air... try a 4 x 10

www.danielprine.com

 

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For some reason 12's always seem to have a very pronounced midrange, more so than 15's or 10's.

The frequency charts on the eminence neo 12 look interesting but i haven't heard one yet.

 

I just bought a Avatar neo 410 that worked very well this weekend, I'll have to see how it works on Friday night, we're working one of those bars where the band is just a side show. In other words loud and rude drunks are the main feature. I'll have to see how the Avatar works, in the past I've used the Nemesis 6-10 400 watt combination in that room.

 

Steve i think a second Bergie HT112, would make for a killer rig especially with that Eden 550 head.

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I don't really understand what tone you are looking for. I also suspect that the places you need that EXACT tone are smaller venues.

 

If you haven't, you can read the article on the Eden site about tone and the 550 head. I found it helpful when I borrowed one, but my problem is that I don't have any kind of intuitive feel for making a parametric deliver a certain tone. If you are like me (and on many fronts I hope you aren't), then you've got a lot of experimenting to do.

 

I think that another HT112 would be a great choice. Those other cabs are fine (not the 6x10), and you might like their sound.

 

Is this trip REALLY necessary? Who is going to notice the difference? Most likely it will be your credit card company...

 

Tom

 

 

You may have noticed that I have been inquiring about different "magic dust" devices to use with my rig.
You've got more important things going on. Every time you think the tone isn't perfect, sprinkle some baby powder ("magic dust") into the front of the grill and think about what's really important.

 

Signed,

Dad

www.stoneflyrocks.com

Acoustic Color

 

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally posted by Tom Capasso:

If you haven't, you can read the article on the Eden site about tone and the 550 head. I found it helpful when I borrowed one, but my problem is that I don't have any kind of intuitive feel for making a parametric deliver a certain tone. If you are like me (and on many fronts I hope you aren't), then you've got a lot of experimenting to do.

 

I think that another HT112 would be a great choice. Those other cabs are fine (not the 6x10), and you might like their sound.

 

Is this trip REALLY necessary?

 

You've got more important things going on. Every time you think the tone isn't perfect, sprinkle some baby powder ("magic dust") into the front of the grill and think about what's really important.

 

Signed,

Dad

 

Tom, you are my voice of reason. That's why I asked about non-expensive options. I don't know that anyone but me, the band, and a few buddies would notice. I admit that at times I'd like to "feel" the bass a little more on those gigs. They are usually the non-PA supported ones. I'll give the Eden site a look, too.

 

Adding an EX112 would probably be cool. It would give me more low end potential. I thought maybe a BBE or something would give the illusion without another cab.

 

And yes, the baby will be here before we know it!

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Semi-non related, I just picked up the punch factory. Used it on a solo gig and in a death metal gig. It really is studio quality in my opinion.

 

Related, I went to Aphex's site and listened to some of the samples of the Bass Xciter. I'm looking for a pedal that I can get more tone from and make percussive sounds for my solo stuff. I have the BDDI, but I like to use that in my primary tone. So using that isn't an option. The examples of the Bass Xciter sounded pretty nice. Possibly what your looking for. As for cabs that match, man that's a toughie, I wouldn't buy a new large piece of gear to get a tone I want unless it's my primary tone I'm looking to change.

 

Best of luck, and hail Tom''s voice of reason.

Mike Bear

 

Artisan-Vocals/Bass

Instructor

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Steve - as your VOR, I can't in good conscience recommend you buy anything. But if you do buy another Berg, you might want an HT. As Maury said, the tweeter is smooth, and helps you with the mids as well as the highs. For rock gigs, you can always roll the tweeter off on one (or both) cabs for less top end.

 

It's cheaper to spend time looking at different plucking positions and techniques - nice call J.

 

Tom

www.stoneflyrocks.com

Acoustic Color

 

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt

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so it's a quartet. it's jazz music. it doesn't demand the amount of perceived loudness a rock gig does. going over the specs of the bergantino you should be okay me thinks.

 

then again i never played through a bergantino cab but anyway that's my guess.

 

do what jeremy suggested. take your longest jack-jack cable (you have a preamp so that's okay), during the soundcheck (if it's possible considering the venue/place) go stand where the public is/will be. enrapture yourself with your smooth bass tones. and while you boost 100Hz, try cutting everyting below 40Hz if you can, see what that gives in a live situation.

 

cheers

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I don't know what XM 71 is. But in general, the bass in "smooth jazz" recording is pretty compressed. And if broadcast, the entire recording is going through multiband compression made especially for broadcast.
.
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Compression/limiting will easily give you 3 dB more in average levels with your cab without sounding in the least bit squashed...this is often the hidden secret of bass combo circuitry to make smaller, less powerful combinations seem more capable.

 

And when it comes to mixes - recorded stuff - actually a lot of sonic styles use considerably more than THAT. If you want to sound more like that nothing else will do - no amount of hand technique will reshape the dynamic range and frequency distribution of a single instrument thusly. This is when compression is used as an effect, as PART of the sound, and not just a way to control either dynamic range or uneven technique.

 

In your case, if you really want that sound, it'll also have the added benefit of making your rig sound a bit bigger than it is. And ironically, you bought one of the better compressors for this type of use some time ago.

.
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