The AccuGroove Situation - I'd like an answer: Anyone else?

[getz out]

December 2005's Bass Player with Jack Bruce on the cover has an AccuGroove advertisement on page 59 which still has the AccuSwitch prominently displayed. Interesting.

[SteveC]

Good news is you can find the DPC 1400X relatively cheap used.

I was never able to find one when I was looking...

[wraub]

Originally posted by SteveC:

Good news is you can find the DPC 1400X relatively cheap used.

I was never able to find one when I was looking...

Nor could I.

But I am pleased so far with my DPC 750...

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[jeremy c]

Getz, I'm sure that the deadline for sending in the ad copy was way before this became an issue.

[knuckle_head]

Originally posted by way2fat:

Well,this is disappointing,to say the least. The Accuswitch was most certainly a factor in my decision to get a Whappo Jr., as opposed to two Tri-112's. Back in June I burned up an amplifier at a festival in Rock Island, a Peavey DPC-1000 I was running bridged into what I thought was a 8 Ohm cabinet. I attributed it to heat (low 90's, high humidity), and didn't remark when one of the SR guys said, "That's unusual for Peavey."

 

Looks like my venerable and trusty back-up Carver 1.5A isn't the answer either since it's 600W @ 4 and also bridges to 1200 @ 8. Although it has got me through 10 gigs since the Peavey let the smoke out.

 

Any of you guys familiar with Peavey DPC? Could a DPC-1000 be upgraded to a DPC-1400 in the same chasis? I sure wasn't expecting to deal with this kind of shit when I laid down some major ducats for my AccuGroove. Which is still the best cabinet I've heard.

I'm a bit confused....

 

Everything I have read regarding the switch suggests that the cabs are a true 8, and an untrue 4 (my meaning is that while resistance shifts true impedance does not). So what has been asserted is that these are 8 ohm cabs regardless of the position of the switch, yes?

 

A too-low load is more often than not the culprit in an amp frying rather than the load being too high, yes?

 

Or is there a setting on the DPC that makes it specific ohm rated on output?

 

Important to me as I am considering a DPC1400X...

 

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

[getz out]

Jeremy, I figured that too; usually, though, advertising is the last thing to go into setting. Next month's issue will be more telling of the current pitch.

 

So what has been asserted is that these are 8 ohm cabs regardless of the position of the switch, yes?

Knuckle, you have it flipped a bit; the cabs are 4-ohm irregardless of switch position.

[knuckle_head]

Originally posted by getz76:

So what has been asserted is that these are 8 ohm cabs regardless of the position of the switch, yes?

Knuckle, you have it flipped a bit; the cabs are 4-ohm irregardless of switch position.

Hhhmmm.... okay. I thought certain the argument went the other way.

 

So is there a setting on the Peavey that requires a specific load to be applied? I thought amps were friendly to a given resistance level and self adjusted... and that the DPC series was more than up to a 4 ohm load.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by knuckle_head:

So is there a setting on the Peavey that requires a specific load to be applied? I thought amps were friendly to a given resistance level and self adjusted... and that the DPC series was more than up to a 4 ohm load.

The older Peavey DPC amps (like many older/cheaper power amps) goes down to 4 ohms/ch which equals 8 ohms bridged minimum impedance. Same for older Eden & SWR stereo heads when bridged. Newer power amps tend to be ok down to 2 ohms/ch, i.e. 4 ohms bridged.

 

Regarding this specific issue, I think AccuGroove owe Way2Fat a replacement amp or compensation. And they owe Bass Player magazine a correction on their claim that no-one has had problems due to their non-functioning AccuSwitch.

 

Alex

[getz out]

Knuckle, the DPC 1400X handles 2-ohm loads stereo or a 4-ohm load bridged; I believe the previous incarnations of the DPC (1000, 750) did not handle loads below 8-ohms bridged.

 

Unfortunately for way2fat, it went kaboom, because the cabinet is actually 4-ohms, and probably being pushed rather hard.

[wurmhole78]

It looks safe to say that the cabs are effectively in the 5-6 ohm range based on the curves and the frequencies that we are most concerned with. Its nit-picking perhaps but I think its the reason many more people haven't burned up amps.

[getz out]

Originally posted by wurmhole78:

It looks safe to say that the cabs are effectively in the 5-6 ohm range based on the curves and the frequencies that we are most concerned with. Its nit-picking perhaps but I think its the reason many more people haven't burned up amps.

Agreed, but those curves are not so different than many other cabinets (i.e., there's nothing "special" about the impedence of the cabinet with the AccuSwitch, many cabinets that are nominal 4-ohm could be in this range). Also, most amps can handle these types of loads; I doubt way2fat's amp would have blown up if he was using it on a hot, humid day and he was actually using an 8-ohm cabinet.

[Gruuve]

Actually, impedance always varies w/ frequency. IIRC, the impedance rating is based on the MINIMUM impedance across all frequencies, which in this case (according to the chart) was just a hair under 4 ohms (which is normal and typical for cabs). Average impedance is kind of useless. It's akin to having your head in the freezer and your butt in the microwave...on the average you *should be* comfortable (but you're not!). Put another way, you can easily drown while walking in water that is 3' deep on the average.

 

Dave

[g.]

Yep. And anybody who has read T-S parameters of various drivers realizes that there is a fair amount of variance anyway between those grouped in the 4-ohm category.

[way2fat]

I've sent the DPC-1000 back to the factory for reconditioning. Of course it won't be of use to me when I get it back. I did call Mark today and we are exploring some solutions, he has offered to sell me a Stewart at cost, but I don't have the ducats. My offer is that we trade amps between us. I send him my reconditioned DPC-1000 and he sends me a light, one or two space power amp that can handle the job. Doesn't have to be new but must be in good operating condition- something like a DPC-1400 or a Stewart, or a Smaller QSC PLX series. The music store says that the reconditioning will cost about $200, which will mean that I'll now have $550 in the Peavey, which is, I think, about the price of the above, used. Anyone think I'm being unreasonable?

[wraub]

Did Mark have any answers/opinions on the current controversy?

Did he at least own up to any blame in your case?

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[Luke73]

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

Luke:

 

Incompetence or misrepresentation? Well, I'd like to believe that it's merely incompetence on AccuGroove's part. But, I can't see how someone could have the technical knowledge to design these great-sounding and relatively flat cabs (not at all a simple task, and certainly not one that could reasonably be accomplished through trial and error), but not have the technical knowledge to know that the AccuSwitch THEY DESIGNED doesn't actually do anything. Sorry...pragmatically speaking, I can't see how this could possibly be a case of simple incompetence.

 

And, based on Way2fat's comments, there obviously IS the possibility of damaging your amp with the lovely health magnet...er...uh...AccuSwitch.

 

I wish that Mark would offer us some sort of commentary on this. Obviously, some folks feel a little betrayed (some simply don't care because the cabs do sound good). I think hearing some sort of answer from Mark, even if it's "I misrepresented this, and I'm sorry". I'd imagine lawyers have instructed him to say nothing, however. There could be a lot of people contacting him for amp reimbursement over the next couple of years.

 

Now, I have to ask myself...most of the bass cab mfg's misrepresent specs, so what makes this case different from some of the large mfgs? Two things come to mind. One, AccuGroove is a small company, and like most small companies, they gain business off of trust. In other words, Mark is the face and voice of the AccuGroove company, and by talking to the owner, many people have developed trust that is probably now displaced. Second, the fudged frequency responses and sensitivities claimed by other mfg's generally won't damage your amp...misrepresenting the impedance WILL damage your amp. So, not only was the AccuSwitch a misrepresentation, it's one that can cost you money if you actually use it. This seems like such an irresponsible thing to do on Mark's part to me.

 

Dave

I agree Dave,

 

I'd like to think it was simply a mistake, but it's hard to understand how an expert in the field could make such an error. An attempt to deceive the bass playing public, and risking their equipment in the process seems a far more likely explanation. As would many others, I'd very much like to see a statement from Accugroove that settles the matter, and ends the speculation.

 

If it was indeed incompetence, then he should say "um...sorry guys, we realise the Accuswitch doesn't work the way we thought it did" and just get on with the job of building great bas cabinets without the gimmicks.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by way2fat:

Anyone think I'm being unreasonable?

Not at all. You could have asked for / demanded a lot more!

 

Alex

[way2fat]

wraub- I would say he acknowledged the problem implicity; he knew what I meant when I told him that I had burned up my amp running it bridged mono with the switch at 8 Ohms. I'd like to be able to solve this at the level of two bass players trading power amps between their rigs; I do understand how one could get optimistic with one's claims in a ferociously competetive market filled with companies posting specs. that would make a White House speech writer blush. And their may be lawyers out there telling him to stonewall.

[g.]

I do understand how one could get optimistic with one's claims in a ferociously competetive market filled with companies posting specs.

Yep, a lot of liein' goin' on, but some lies can have worse repercussions as well you know. And I just had to laugh at some of the hype in this little gem:

 

http://www.basscrazy.net/accugroove.html

 

Must be nice to have the competitive edge, with God your personal advisor. I guess God did at one time share the idea of multi-way systems with other companies though, like Ampeg, Acme, a few others, and then PRACTICALLY EVERYBODY IN SR AND HOME SYSTEMS. I guess they all fell from grace later or something.

[jeremy c]

Mark's statement on tha page may sound a little too religious for most people, but Mark's beliefs are big part of who he is and that why I think that there is no way he is trying to fool anyone or put our false advertising just to make a dollar.

[g.]

I too might have a god (Yog Soggoth comes from the peanut gallery), but I don't try to make it sound like I've got a corner on the market ; }

 

Practicing good business principles trumps wearing your religion on your sleeve, and I imagine that God sees it the same way.

 

But that's just me.

[Gruuve]

Just read that page...oookaaaay...all I can say is that the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

 

If you devoutly adhere to the religious faith of your choice, then it will show in just about everything that you do. If you don't, it won't. A person's religious faith is evidenced by what they do moreso than what they say.

 

There will indeed be mistakes (and plenty of them) because there are no perfect people on this planet. However, in my mind there is a big difference between a mistake (something that happens by accident) and a conscious choice (something that requires careful planning and execution).

 

Dave

[rumpelstiltskin.]

you know, i'm not comfortable calling Mark out on his faith. it always makes me squirm a little when people talk the high road about their faith and walk the low road. but i just don't think it's productive in any way to make this about christianity and not about Mark Wright and AccuGroove.

 

we're all disappointed with how this is unfolding. it leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. i think we can be outraged at what appears to be impropriety. that hurts us all in the industry. but ultimately what Mark is doing on a christian level is between him and God. we can be disillusioned with christians as a result of being let down again by our own high standards for christians. but i just don't see that being very productive in the bass world and in the bass marketplace.

 

i guess i have a vested interest in this approach. i hate to see this kind of thing happen. but if i thought christianity were about behavior, i'd be missing the point. we all want to do the right thing, and sometimes we actually do. but christianity isn't about always getting it right. it's about knowing how to atone when you get it wrong.

 

maybe think about that before making this a personal issue.

 

the scales have fallen from our collective eyes. we have more wisdom than we did before this issue took fire. i think it opens up a lot of questions about AccuGroove products and about the company itself about which we previously made assumptions. but it doesn't change the fact that for a lot of people these are great sounding cabinets that last a long time. and hopefully the company and the community will be better for having addressed this issue honestly and learning from the results.

 

robb.

[Tom Capasso]

Robb - well said.

 

I also suspect that Mark is still trying to figure out what to do next. Given the legal implications, I don't expect him to address the issue here. If anyone has been hurt (like w2f) and Mark settles up, that would help.

 

And often ad copy is sold for a period of time, and the mags don't want to have to alter the copy. AccuG may have bought some months of advertising, so it could be a while until we see the copy change.

 

Tom

[davio]

I don't have any stake in the matter at hand but I can actually see how it could, in fact, be an honest mistake. I have a much better understanding of basic electronics than basic acoustics. Is it that hard to imagine that Mark has/had the opposite affliction? I can believe that a layman who wanted to build his own bass cab wanted to gain some level of competency in electronics and came up with what he thought was a very basic but, for some reason, as of yet never before utilized gadget to incorporate. The difference between AC and DC is a very simple concept for some but others may not fully understand it. After all, current is current, right?

 

The fact that Mr. Write makes amazing bass cabs does not in any way qualify him as an electrician. I've come up with amazing bass lines before but that doesn't make me a virtuoso. There have been times when I've fancied myself so and was able to come up with some cool technique or something and wondered why people hadn't done this before and later found out that it either wasn't practical/there was an easier way of doing it or that it had simply been done before. I think it's perfectly feasible that Mr. Write followed that sort of path.

 

Of course, this is purely speculative and is probably going way out on a limb...but still. Call me crazy if you want.

[davio]

robb. and Tom: +1

[getz out]

Well said, robb.

 

Let us disregard the religious aspect of this post; I think we will all agree we all be, and being is good and you should be allowed to be if it doesn't hurt other people's being.

 

I have a problem with this:

 

This means conducting business in a way many in the music industry were not use to; with integrity.

So, here he is accusing others in the business of lacking integrity.

 

It means that you don't pass the buck, but accept the responsibility when things go wrong...

Waiting.

 

Religion aside, this is very much a "No New Taxes" moment.

[g.]

Yep, the religious thing is kind of a red herring, and I didn't bring it into the picture. Mark did.

[davio]

Maury, he wasn't pointing any fingers and he wasn't making an all-inclusive statement. I think it would be hard to say that all or even an overwhelming majority of companies in the music industry conduct business with a high level of integrity. Business people are notorious for doing what they must to succeed and make money. Just like politicians are notorious for lying to get elected and lawyers are notorious for being...well...lawyers. I can't fault him for that statement.

 

As far as accepting responsibility, I have a feeling that those who said Mark is probably acting under the direction of lawyers are correct. If this is the case, they are probably spending a great deal of time, effort and thus money trying to plan out the best way to approach the problem. It seems like it's been a really long time but in all actuality it's been only about a month since this came out and after working for a corporate tax lawyer for 5 years I can understand why it would take this long at the very least to get anything done.

 

Quit bashing the guy and give him the benefit of the doubt until this gets cleared up. Even if the benefit of the doubt is that he is/was sorely misinformed and/or ignorant of the finer points of the laws of physics that apply to electronics.

 

I'm less concerned with the AccuSwitch and the repercussions thereof and more appalled by the amount of people who love his work and at least seemed to respect his integrity until it was questioned and immediately turned on him with bared teeth dripping with blood instead of waiting for answers.

 

If you want to play judge, jury and executioner, at least wait until the defense makes its case. Chill out people.

[davio]

That was a pretty shitty rebuttal gb.