"Performing" vs. merely playing

[Snowdog79]

A percussionist I once knew esposed the concept that playing percussion is a visual as well as an aural art--i.e. one should perform with one's entire body, with every movement complimenting the music. I'm playing in a band that calls for some very easy to play bass parts, so I've been trying to step up the "performance" part of my shows to project a more involving stage presence.

 

I was curious how the thoughtful masses here at the Lowdown felt about this subject. Do you "act" a part when you're playing on stage, or just do what comes naturally? Should one ever sacrifice technique for appearance? Discuss.

[tnb]

If you "fake the funk", your nose will grow.

[bikertrash]

Originally posted by Snowdog79:

Should one ever sacrifice technique for appearance? Discuss.

Ahhh.....that would be no. Never.

[moot]

If you "fake the funk", your nose will grow.

 

For me performance is a state of mind. It starts on the way to the gig. I chant my mantras and bass-ically get myself prepared mentally. If my head isn't in the zone it shows in my performance. I stare at my shoes instead of flopping around smiling and chewing gum with my mouth open.

 

At practice or at jam, I play. I try new lines, stop and repeat parts and really make an effort to improve. That's how it works for me anyway.

[Snowdog79]

Originally posted by bikertrash:

Originally posted by Snowdog79:

Should one ever sacrifice technique for appearance? Discuss.

Ahhh.....that would be no. Never.

--Reminds me of when Peter Gabriel got kicked out of Genesis. . .he would insist on wearing these elaborate costumes that made it difficult to get the mic near enough to his mouth.

 

What about when Billy Sheehan shifts his bass so the strap's only on his right shoulder, so he can flail around more?

 

What about when Victor Wooten flips his bass around his back?

 

Just playing devil's advocate here....

[moot]

Ideally you would want both technique and show but at a live performance it is always a gamble for those who wallow in mediocrity like myself.

 

I would rather pedal root notes all night and look good than have somebody say, "Nice chops but all he did was stare at his shoes."

[ATM]

If you do some of the things discussed in this thread, I'm sure that they would constitute "performance."

 

Of course, I'm sure, that your drummer has mastered the art of twirling his sticks. He probably plays all over his set, getting as much motion in as possible. High, overhead, hanging, huge 19 inch crash cymbals that when hammered, (and they are hammered) reflect the laser light show to the back of the room.

 

Am I getting warm? Anyway, do what you feel comfortable with. As bikertrash already stated, never sacrifice technique for appearance.

 

We're bass players. We're known mostly for standing in a small circle laying down the funky groove that makes the crowd sweat. If that isn't performing, I don't know what is.

 

ATM

[davio]

Check this thread too.

[Basshappi]

Originally posted by Snowdog79:

Originally posted by bikertrash:

Originally posted by Snowdog79:

Should one ever sacrifice technique for appearance? Discuss.

Ahhh.....that would be no. Never.

--Reminds me of when Peter Gabriel got kicked out of Genesis. . .he would insist on wearing these elaborate costumes that made it difficult to get the mic near enough to his mouth.

 

What about when Billy Sheehan shifts his bass so the strap's only on his right shoulder, so he can flail around more?

 

What about when Victor Wooten flips his bass around his back?

 

Just playing devil's advocate here....

When you've got those kind of chops you can perform any way you want.However, I have seen both Victor and Biily play and they don't do that stuff all the time.

 

Showmanship is important, flash has it's place, but not at the expense of doing one's job.

 

Cheers!

[Snowdog79]

Originally posted by ATM:

If you do some of the things discussed in this thread, I'm sure that they would constitute "performance."

 

Of course, I'm sure, that your drummer has mastered the art of twirling his sticks. He probably plays all over his set, getting as much motion in as possible. High, overhead, hanging, huge 19 inch crash cymbals that when hammered, (and they are hammered) reflect the laser light show to the back of the room.

 

Am I getting warm? Anyway, do what you feel comfortable with. As bikertrash already stated, never sacrifice technique for appearance.

 

*SNIP*

ATM

--Actually, the percussionist I was referring to has a Master's degree, was teaching at my university, was a member of the Texas Wind Symphony, and writes method books for Hal Leonard. He's not the stick-twirling type--he was referring to four mallet marimba solos

 

I'm not trying to pick fights...just curious to see what people think of taking his philosophy and cross-applying it to a 'rock band' situation.

 

Oh, and thanks Davio--I'm enjoying reading your topic!

[Dave Brown]

Jeremy, you wouldn't be talking about Mike Varner, would ya?

 

Y'all let me introduce Jeremy Hull to you. He is a fellow teacher and player here in my area. A few weeks ago, I had the pleasure of judging several of his students in a solo contest. They were all well prepared and it was a pleasure to listen to them. He is really carrying the bass torch.

 

 

As far as "showmanship" is concerned, I think it falls a distant second to musicality. I like to have fun on stage, and I like people to see that I'm having fun. However, the music is the main thing, from my point of view.

 

Nobody cares anything about going to a concert where the performers consider it a chore. (Well, maybe Miles Davis followers did.)

 

More important than "look like your havin' fun" would be the idea that you are trying to say something musically. Tell your story without words and people will beat a path to your door.

[Bass_god_offspring]

me--i jump and dance when i play all the time, of course, i don't do it to the point where my technique goes out the window, but i do do it when there are some fast, easy lines to play.

[Connie Z]

Originally posted by Snowdog79:

Do you "act" a part when you're playing on stage, or just do what comes naturally? Should one ever sacrifice technique for appearance? Discuss.

I absolutely do move on stage. As much as I can without looking goofy! Although it's easy for me to move because I just can't stay still when I hear great rockin' tunes!

 

The way I approach it is this...

 

I have been much more 'entertained' by mediocre musicians who move, and smile, and make eye contact and tell jokes (and wear good looking stage wardrobe), than by excellent musicians who just stand on stage and look either:

bored or aggravated or scared.

 

So, since I want to entertain, the best I can do is what I think others will enjoy.

 

Fortunately, since I am playing all oldies cover tunes, and only a few of them are technically challenging, the playing never suffers. (I always fall in the 'mediocre' category anyway! I have no "flash" and "wow-factor" in my bass playing. Maybe one day, but not yet.)

 

Hope that helped!

 

... connie z

[Stackimo]

technique or appearance?

 

Several factors are involved. Level of skill and time placed in practice most notably. These will determine whether you have this choice.

 

But if you are gigging, you shouldn't have to make a choice. Not all songs require a strong concentration upon your technique at all times, therefore when the time comes and you are eased off the difficult section of your lines, it is time to let loose.

 

As a long time fan of live music and recently becoming a performer myself, I place a lot of emphysis upon showmanship. People come to see you to be entertained. Entertain them.

[PanicYou]

At my local venues it takes a lot to impress the crowd. Being in a punk rock band like 24151352345 million other teenagers just dosent seem to be enough. In my opinion we are one of the tighter and more experienced bands around but it still requires us to bring a little more to the table at each show. I dont mean become fake or do something you wouldnt normally do,but stage presence is very important to success. If your not jumping around having fun then the crowd wont be eaither.

[Snowdog79]

Mr Brown, thanks for the kind words! I was happy with how my kids did at contest, and I appreciate your comments on the judging sheets. For several of the kids that was their first time performing a solo, and I'm glad you were the one they played for.

 

The percussionist I was referring to above was Nick Petrella. He taught at TCU for several years, and has now moved up to Michigan to teach and work on his PHD there. I had the pleasure of having him for Percussion Tech, and he's one of those people who's so intense (and intimidating) that they leave a mark on your way of thinking.

 

It's cool to hear people's thoughts on the subject. Two more examples popped into my head this afternoon:

 

--the Lowdown discussion of Steve Vai's schtick (spelling?) here: http://www.musicplayer.com//ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/5/t/011109.html#000000

 

--and Brian Beller's column from the October 2000 Bass Player magazine, found here:

http://www.bryanbeller.com/literature/bassplayer7.html

 

I know this is getting a little aimless, but I'm digging getting people's thoughts/stories on this subject. For myself, I can't help thinking back sheepishly to several years ago at Trees in Dallas, when I was bouncing around, tripped on the drum riser, and fell on my posterior right in the middle of a song. I didn't miss a note though, and I got several compliments on my energy afterwards

[ATM]

Originally posted by Snowdog79:

--Acutally, the percussionist I was referring to has a Master's degree, was teaching at my university, was a member of the Texas Wind Symphony, and writes method books for Hal Leonard. He's not the stick-twirling type--he was referring to four mallet marimba solos

 

I'm not trying to pick fights...just curious to see what people think of taking his philosopher and cross-applying it to a 'rock band' situation.

 

Oh, and thanks Davio--I'm enjoying reading your topic!

My fault, you said percussionist and I was thinking "just drummer."

 

Davio, you found that thread for me. I was searching, but evidently wasn't putting in the right words.

 

After reading my post again, it sounds like I'm against "performing." I'm not, just against sacrificing music for stage theatrics.

 

If you can swing from a trapeze and lay it down at the same time, all the more power to you.

 

ATM

[Snowdog79]

No problemo, Mr. ATM! Like I said, I just want to get people's views on an admitedly touchy subject. Thanks to you and Davio for pointing me to more discussion

[EddiePlaysBass]

Well, I've never performed but at rehearsals when I'm in the mood I'll be 'dancing around' a bit. When I'm not, I just stand by my mic stand (I do backing vox as well) and look at the drummer

[SteveC]

I am not a flashy performer. I prefer to hang back with my drummer and just lay it down. Fortunately, I have always been in bands that either had a flashy front guy or flash wasn't required - like a jazz trio.

[PhilMan99]

I think four things "look good" from a (bass) performer:

 

1) Don't stare at your fretboard when you play. You should almost never need to look at it.

 

2) Look at your audience when you play (much like a speaker should alternately look at each person they're speaking to). I'm talking kind of a mild stare with a smile on your face. Scopin' out the chicks (or guys) may be a bit distracting...

 

3) "Get funky with your bad self" - move around at least a little. A little dancing to-and-fro helps you keep the beat, and lets others "see" the beat.

 

4) Appropriate attire. A tux at a biker-bar, or a swim-suit at a wedding probably wouldn't be best...

 

Assuming you're not shy (#2) or clumsy (#3), #1 is probably the hard one.

 

P.S Assuming you don't mind hurting your wrists, wearing you bass at your ankles looks really cool too!

[The Bear Jew]

I think it kind of depends on what you do...

Ya gotta match the your onstage behavior to the gig.

 

For example, playing a B.C. Rich Warlock and spitting blood while running around wirelessly and banging your head so hard that you miss a few notes might not work for you too well at a black tie jazz gig, but you'd be underdoing it at a Gwar show.

 

Should technical perfection be sacrificed in the name of a good performance? Again, it depends on what you do...

 

Ideally, you shouldn't have to sacrifice your technical skills to put on a showyou should be able to do whatever you do onstage without screwing up. That's not always possible in the real world, but it can be a goal.

[Davo-London]

I love this thread.

 

I use the fingerboard-stare as I usually play fretless. Playing fretless and not looking is not an option for me.

 

I notice I sometimes move the neck down when I'm sliding to a low note. I also tend to overdo the follow-through when I play an accented chord. I figure this is acceptable protocol. But staring at the audience doesn't come naturally to me. I spend my non-fingerboard moments communicating with our drummer. We communicate with our eyes.

 

I saw Sade once. Never again. She didn't move once in 90 minutes. It was incredibly dull. I really would recommend a bit of body movement.

[alexclaber]

Reggie Wooten: Gets crazy applause etc when doing his slap/tap stuff on the guitar, live with Victor's band. The first time you hear it on the recording you go, "interesting, but..." The second time and thereafter you go "please, someone press the mute button..."

 

But judging by the audience reaction, it worked really really well at the gig.

 

Until we're playing to 100% blind audiences, or in complete blackness, showmanship (for want of a better word) will be an integral part of the live performance. And if you're great at it, it should compliment and enhance the musicality of the performance by captivating the audience and using them to drive you on to greater things.

 

The studio is a different place, where flash rarely works, not least of which because the listener can't see the crazy fingerboard gymnastics involved, plus you don't have that same feedback loop from the audience.

 

Alex

[mcbn]

I believe you have to move around and look like you are having a good time in a rock band if you are playing live. Part of going to a rock show is watching the band do their thing on stage.

 

If you give the people what they want to see as well as what they want to hear they will be much more likely to come around again.

[Sir Ethelred Hedgerow-Hedg]

There are little things I do to embilish my performance. For instance, when moving up an octave I will move up one string and 7 frets rather than two strings and two frets. This allows things to look more dramatic but doesn't change my line.

[Fred TBP]

Originally posted by PhilMan99:

I think four things "look good" from a (bass) performer:

 

1) Don't stare at your fretboard when you play. You should almost never need to look at it.

 

2) Look at your audience when you play (much like a speaker should alternately look at each person they're speaking to). I'm talking kind of a mild stare with a smile on your face. Scopin' out the chicks (or guys) may be a bit distracting...

 

3) "Get funky with your bad self" - move around at least a little. A little dancing to-and-fro helps you keep the beat, and lets others "see" the beat.

 

4) Appropriate attire. A tux at a biker-bar, or a swim-suit at a wedding probably wouldn't be best...

 

Assuming you're not shy (#2) or clumsy (#3), #1 is probably the hard one.

 

P.S Assuming you don't mind hurting your wrists, wearing you bass at your ankles looks really cool too!

Phil, I've pretty much broken three of your four "things" right here and gotten away with it. (It was an outdoor festival, so #4 was appropriate as I don't look too good in swimwear or tube socks*.) Might've been the fact that at the time I was doing these awesome "mwahs" that got the attention and the accolades...

Just teasing. Sometimes you just get into what you do, but most times I agree, you need to perform when you're up there. If you're not having fun up there, your audience will pick up on that and lose you quickly.

*not all of us can (un)dress like Flea can onstage.

[Connie Z]

Originally posted by The Very Rvd. Joe Grundy:

There are little things I do to embilish my performance. For instance, when moving up an octave I will move up one string and 7 frets rather than two strings and two frets. This allows things to look more dramatic but doesn't change my line.

Good one!

[GTRBass]

Most of the audience usually can't tell the musical difference between supreme technical wizard and a guy playing three notes and jumping around.

 

Which has more value to them? The most entertaining guy.

 

Very few people are entertained by sheer technical prowess other than musicians. Most people will long remember a performance by an animated, over the top performer like Boosty Collins. Few non-musicians will remember a performance by a masterful but staid player like Anthony Jackson.

 

So long as you hold down the groove, I think you should be an entertaining performer rather than a shoegazer. Come to think of it Jaco Pastorius was quite the showman AND technical monster. He probably made Weather Report a lot more famous because of his antics.

[mcbn]

Lemmy.