Music Teachers

[Luke73]

I've been playing bass for about eighteen months now, and for the first eight months or so I took weekly lessons from a local music shop/school.

 

After that time I decided to quit the lessons and go it alone for a while. We were making progress, but it was all a little "non structured" and the progress wasn't really very tangible from week to week.

 

Don't get me wrong, my old bass teacher is a great guy, a good teacher and an excellent working bass player, and we got along just fine.

 

Anyway after working at home from books for a while I've decided to take lessons again and tried this new guy that runs a dedicated music school in my area.

 

Bass isn't his primary instrument, he also teaches piano and guitar. His bass technique isn't all that great, but he is an excellent theorist and seems to have vast musical knowledge.

 

In my first lesson he mostly played guitar and piano while I was on my bass. He only picked up his bass twice - very briefly.

 

We did cover some very good theory though, and it looks like his lessons will be very structured.

 

I must add though that although he seems like an excellent musician the alarm bells did ring when he said...

 

"I believe that all guitarists can play bass because the notes are exactly the same"

 

 

Anyway - I guess I'm trying to figure out if it's better to go back to the old teacher, who will probably be better for my technique and cover a little less "structured" theory - or go with the new teacher and focus more on theory.

 

Both teachers use standard notation and reading in their lessons rather than TAB.

 

Anyway - what do you think is more important in a bass teacher for a beginning bass player?

 

Heavy theory with a fairly formal structure and perhaps a little lighter in technique, or more playing and maybe a little less formal structure to the lessons?

 

[davebrownbass]

When I was in college, in my Music Ed and General Ed courses, we spent LOADS of time learning how to structure lessons and units to maximize learning, testing, re-teaching.

 

Structured learning is valuable, and I think it's vital that a teacher develops a set of goals with the private student about direction. Student input is a must, so that when it gets rough, the teacher can say, "I know it's hard, but this is what you wanted to learn."

 

In my classroom, I teach violin, viola, cello and bass. I rarely pick up a violin or viola, 'cause I don't play them well. I can still provide opportunities for them to learn.

 

The other teacher, the one who's a good player...there is value there as well. It is good to learn by watching...

 

I believe you might have a good approach by spending months with the structured guy, then taking 6 lessons from the other guy, and back and forth (as long as they are both willing.)

 

WARNING: This may be a problem with either of the teachers. I will NOT take a student who is currently studying bass with another teacher. Not only will the student possibly be confused, he may be more distracted "comparing" us.

 

Your teachers may also have reservations, unless they clearly understand the rationale.

 

I will take a classical URB player who is studying jazz electric, or vice versa. However, the parameters must be clearly understood.

[Luke73]

Yes, I think that structure is important.

 

I guess I feel that if we had more structure and goals that my time would be better spent with the old teacher, but just not sure if we can attain this. I should probably give it another try, and spend some time establishing a structure with him.

 

Unfortunately alternating teachers too often or having simultaneous relationships wouldn't really be feasible.

 

The new teacher is nearly double the price too..... ($35 per 1/2hr as opposed to $20 per 1/2hour).

 

I don't mind paying extra money for better tuition, but I need to be confident that there is a distinct advantage in the extra cost.

[Mike H.]

I would think that after 18 months, your technique is doing well. Music theory and knowledge is an asset you will need. If your current instructor is unable to perform/show you a specific playing style, at that point I would switch teachers (IMHO). At least they both use standard notation.

[BenLoy]

I must add though that although he seems like an excellent musician the alarm bells did ring when he said...

 

"I believe that all guitarists can play bass because the notes are exactly the same"

Well, he's right. The notes are exactly the same. It's a stringed instrument tuned in fourths played with flamenco guitar technique. Most guitarists have an easy time doubling on bass from a technical perspective.

 

That being said, the only ones who really do it well are those that play with the mindset that they're a musician, which means they truly understand their instrument's role in the music they're playing.

 

Mrs. Grundy is full of multi-instrumentalists. Our drummer plays bass, guitar and keyboards; our lead guitarist plays bass, keyboards, mandolin and drums; our lead singer plays guitar, and our rhythm guitarist plays tuba. They all sound good on their alternate instruments.

 

I'm the only mono-instrumentalist in the group, and I've been looking at guitars lately. It's a good thing. Having a chip on one's shoulder about other instruments is usually the hallmark of the small-minded player.

 

Expand your horizons. Sounds like you could learn a lot from this teacher. Keep at it.

[Luke73]

I appreciate your observation, but I'm far from small minded.

 

Just last week I bought myself a guitar (a strat copy)to play with, as I thought learning about other instruments would be beneficial for both my bass playing and my musicianship as a whole.

 

I also bought my wife a guitar so she can learn another instrument and we can jam together.

 

I appreciate that there are some wonderfully talented multi-instrumentalists out there, that's a good thing - and I respect their instruments.

 

I was just a little concerned about the context of this teacher's comment - that's all...

 

It was almost like "all guitarists can play bass - but bass players can't play guitar, so bass is second class".

 

Sure, I understand the similarities re: tuning etc - and some guitarists may be quite competent on a bass, but all guitarists can't play bass.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

Originally posted by Luke Eberbach:

It was almost like "all guitarists can play bass - but bass players can't play guitar, so bass is second class".

So what if he feels like that? I know a lot of guitar players who don't think highly of the bass. Hell I know a lot of non-instrumentalist (ie. casual or serious music lovers) who don't think highly of the bass. Their choice, their loss.

 

I'd go with theory. You can learn technique by playing along with records etc. Been doing that myself for the past two and a half years. I spent a little while with a guitar teacher (...) who learnt me some theory, but due to lack of time I had to give it up.

 

As soon as I can find the time again, I'll be back in his class. In the meantime, I'll play along to records and work a bit on my speed, endurance, sloppy slapping and especially my timing (which is quite off these days )

[Tom Capasso]

I suffer from personal prejudice - I don't think all guitarists can play bass. As Ben said - it's the same notes, and the techniques aren't so far apart. But I think only well-rounded gutarists can play bass. You have to be able to "think like a bassist", where as I've seen guitarists play bass on recordings by just playing roots.

 

I suspect that your teacher thinks of guitarists as trained, accomplished musicians because he is one. I have no doubt that he could play bass.

 

I don't know about your location, but can't you find someone who can teach both physical technique and theory? I think that would be best. I would probably stay with the guitarist if I had to choose. With his physical skills, he could probably help you if a technique issue came up. The theory is cool, and it sounds like you'll be able to play with him. I think I'd like that.

 

Good Luck!

Tom

 

Rich plays tuba? That's one funky lady, that Mrs Grundy...

[coyote]

Any well-rounded musician will not hold that opinion, and this teacher seems (from the provided description) to be well-rounded. And from a factual perspective, guitarists are responsible for playing extended chords while bassists usually don't - therefore it is more natural for a dedicated guitarist to pick up a bass and play it well than for a dedicated bassist to pick up a guitar.

 

Luke, you need to take a chill pill. And take comfort in the fact that no mere geetarist will ever be able to play bass as well as one who dedicates himself to the instrument.

Originally posted by EddiePlaysBass:

Originally posted by Luke Eberbach:

It was almost like "all guitarists can play bass - but bass players can't play guitar, so bass is second class".

So what if he feels like that? I know a lot of guitar players who don't think highly of the bass. Hell I know a lot of non-instrumentalist (ie. casual or serious music lovers) who don't think highly of the bass. Their choice, their loss.

[g.]

Any assumptions about bass being second class are best handled by more bass players becoming interesting writers and band leaders. Unfortunately many bass players think that to be good they only need become good followers. Not a BAD thing, but that is the way it stacks up.

[ClarkW]

My teacher is a great bass player, but he rarely if ever touches a bass during our lesson. He nearly always plays guitar and makes me play along with him. He'll only grab my bass from time to time to show a particular technique, or to play a really hard riff that he just can't (edited from "can") cop on the guitar.

[SteveC]

Originally posted by EddiePlaysBass:

 

I'd go with theory. You can learn technique by playing along with records etc.

I disagree - you aren't necessarily learning technique by playing along with recordings. You are learning notes, form, maybe some style.

[Luke73]

Thanks for the comments everyone, they've been very useful.

 

I think you're right, and the new music teacher may be the way to go. Maybe I just took his comment out of context - after all, he is a well rounded musician, and can play multiple instruments very nicely.

 

The balance of theory, technique, and the opportunity to play along with him on other instruments will probably be very good for my own development.

 

I'll continue with the new teacher, and see how things develop.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke.

 

[Mike Bear]

I've had a few students come to me after taking bass lessons from guitar teachers who double as bass teachers. I've looked at past notes and so on. Some have done well, and some are just trying to get more students to make a buck. I play a little guitar, but wouldn't take on guitar students. Any how, if you feel your physical technique is where you want it to be or progressing fine on your own, stick with this guy. I took theory lessons for a while from a piano teacher. Doesn't matter where you get it, just how you apply it. If you end up having a hard time transfering it over to your instrument, you'll know what you need to do. If you are learning and feel like you are growing, then stick with it.

 

As for, guitarists philosophies of bass being much like a guitar... Well.... I'm sure if you put some physical practice time it, it's an OK switch. I think it's more about the mind of a bassplayer that's most important when crossing over. Some guitarists really respect the roll of bass. Some just plunk down a line to record their song. When I had a bass over to one of my guitar playing friends and they try to do a 5 string sweep on it, I think "Damn guitarist". Then I ask them if they've heard of Adam Nitti, he does it without a pick. haha. Good luck!!

[Luke73]

Thanks for the comments Mike,

 

There are certainly many improvements that I can make in my technique, but for the time being I think in depth theory, and the opportunity to play with my teacher on other instruments will benefit me the most. I can still work on my technique whilst with this teacher, and if it gets to a stage where I feel that I need to work on other aspects of my playing, I can go back to my old teacher for a while.

 

I'm looking forward to my next lesson on Monday.

 

Cheers,

 

Luke.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Originally posted by SteveC:

I disagree - you aren't necessarily learning technique by playing along with recordings. You are learning notes, form, maybe some style.

Well, I disagree with that But by no means do I want to pretend that the bestor onlyway to learn technique is by playing along with songs. But it's worked for me. So far