Jealous Guitarists...

[Nicklab]

Originally posted by Tenstrum:

how old are these guys

Early 30's. Old enough that they should have grown up long ago...

Well, you could always be blunt about things. You could tell them that if they have a problem with you or your playing they should speak up or just shut the f*#% up. Sometimes people need that figurative slap in the face when they've gone off the deep end. If these guys are over 30, they should be adult enough to say their piece or keep it to themselves.

 

If they can't deal with you being a good player and getting complimented for it, it sounds like the real issue may be theirs. It may be that they're not putting the work in, they're not inspired, and they're not playing their parts as well as you're playing yours. They shouldn't blame you for their shortcomings, laziness or lack of talent. If they aren't playing up to their potential, then that's their deal and you can't do anything about it.

 

But this is brings us to a place where being a musician gets tenuous. What are you to do when you are the best musician in a band? There's an old axiom that you should always try to play with musicians who are better than you. That way you have room to grow and get better. But if you're in a situation where you are the best player, then this is where you need to tread a fine line. You've got to be humble if you recognize that fact. You have to do your part and try to be encouraging to the other people you're working with. In other words, don't be arrogant about it, don't be like "Dig Me!" if you pull off something incredible. If someone compliments what you do, thank them. But you should also try to be complimentary to your bandmates when play something great.

[Dan South]

Originally posted by Tenstrum:

Sorry, I don't post sound clips on the web. Especially sound clips of non copyrighted material.

Okay.

 

First of all, the odds of someone "stealing" your BIG IDEA and making a million and leaving you out in the street are a zillion to one. I've posted MP3's of stuff that I hadn't registered yet. It takes a TON of work and a TON of money to turn a song into a hit, and there are plenty of other songs out there.

 

If you're really concerned about it, rip a CD, send it into the Library of Congress with a Form SR filled out, and you're covered.

 

That said, this statement sounds like something that an inexperienced person would say. I think that you might get some good feedback if you posted your jam for the folks here to critique. Edit it down to, like 30 seconds, if you are concerned about plagiarism. Nobody is going to steal 30 seconds of somebody's garage jam.

 

Have a friend record your jam from the back of the room, i.e. where the audience would be sitting. This should pick up a representative mix of the instruments. Hey, maybe they're RIGHT. Maybe you ARE too loud. Maybe THEY are too loud. Maybe the drummer is too loud. The recording will settle this once and for all.

 

For your own development and sanity, I would suggest that you STAY in your current band but that you hang out with some older, more seasoned players. Go to some jam sessions. Check out how it works. Sit in. Ask local bands if you can sit in for a tune that you know. If they permit this - and don't get hostile if they don't - then you'll be able to tell a lot from their reception of you. If nobody wants to talk to you or make eye contact later, you probably sucked. You might say, "Hey, sorry, I guess that sucked," and ask them for suggestions on how to improve. If the band reacts to you in a very excited manner after the set that you've played in, then you probably did OK, not great. If they ask you if you can sit in with them on a future gig, then you nailed it.

 

There's a lot to learn, and unfortunately a lot of it is painful. But by taking these painful steps and making adjustments, you'll be better able to deal with your less experienced buddies. At least you'll know when they're full of themselves. Get THEM to go to some jam sessions, too. Maybe THEY could use a few painful life lessons, themselves.

 

Good luck to you.

[Tom Capasso]

I'm deleting this thread because we should be talking about ME - I can't stand all this talk about you...

 

Interesting stuff. I have a few questions. Do the guitarists complain when people compliment the singer and drummer? There is always a kid in the crowd that likes the drummer, and the singer is your up-front person. If not, you may want to look hard at your own attitude and how you come off. Not to say that you need to change anything, just be aware.

 

For example, I act like I'm the only one in my band who can set us up. That's usually because everyone else backs away from this, but maybe I was too strong-willed from the beginning. If they want to suggest something we can talk it over, but until then I've got an "I've got work to do" attitude. So they tease me about drawing diagrams of our setup. Do they dislike me or what we're doing? No - they just want to bust my chops and I'm not changing until somebody has a better idea. Hope this long example helps you see that you can be aware of tendencies without bothering to change them.

 

I'm assuming these guys bitch about everybody else's positive feedback.

 

Like a few have said, if they work with the band on material and gigs and such, but act this way when others get attention, that's not the end of the world. Yeah it sucks, and who needs it...but it's workable. I played with a guy who took such a solo in Zep's Heartbreaker that the rest of us went upstairs and had a snack, and came back to finish the tune. That is ego - he just sliced away the whole time. He outgrew this (we were just kids) later on.

 

Dan - I agree about posting music samples. But when you said "nobody would steal 30 seconds...", I couldn't help but think of all the sampling going on today. And I love that Verve song that has the orchestral version of a Stones song, but it was stolen...

 

Tom

[Dan South]

Hey Tom!

 

If somebody sampled one of my compositions, I'd be honored. And of course if they made a lot of money, my lawyer and I would be very HAPPY.

 

[dmt]

1) Maybe the singer's got a big mouth. Maybe they're not rally bitching about you. Maybe it's just a few comments that are getting all blown out of proportion?

 

Why don't you ask the guitarists what's up?

 

2) Maybe your bass lines are too melodic -- maybe you are limiting the possibilities of what the guitarist (s!) can do with the song. If you have two guitarists and a melodic bassist, something has to give. Discussing each song and your roles in each is a possibility. Tell them you're not gonna be a "root 'n five" guy, you've got ideas just as much as they have, but you love their playing and the material and you want to work out stuff together.

 

3) You might be surprised that the two guitarists aren't pure soul mates. They are two individual men (I'm assuming), and every man has his own ideas. If you're making beautiful music together, surely, one's ideas coincide with yours more than the other guitarist on occasion.

 

4) Maybe it just ain't gonna work out.

[Tenstrum]

Coyote, I agree with you.

Rehearsal once a week should be sufficient,

Never been in a band that once a week was enough. Especially when learning new material. Maybe we just suck or I do one...

Well, you could always be blunt about things

I've done this once already and so has the singer. They still talk...that's why I'm ranting...

you're in a situation where you are the best player

I am sooooooo not the best player. No one in this band is a slacker by any definition. And I do pass on many compliments to the other members.

odds of someone "stealing" your BIG IDEA

Didn't say any one was going too. I'd just feel better waiting until I can build a website with a somewhat more controllable format.

mix of the instruments

Our demo was professionally done. Also goes back to the fact that no one else thinks I'm too loud, playing crap, or doing something that doesn't fit the song. I'm not doing anything outrageous is my point as well.

Do the guitarists complain when people compliment the singer and drummer?

Nope. I don't pull any kind of attitude. Like I said, I don't think I'm a great bassist by any means. I take what few compliments I get and say thanks, but the rest of the band deserves more credit than I do. I'm just the bass player.

couldn't help but think of all the sampling going on today

Part of my point. Thanks Tom!

Maybe the singer's got a big mouth

No. The singer is honest to a point of almost being rude. If I was doing something wrong, he would be the first to let me know.

every man has his own ideas

My point exactly!

[Mike Bear]

Man,

 

I deal with similar problems in variations. There's a member in the band who we feel is "YES" the weakest link. This person get special attention for a certain reason that I'd be giving away if I were any more descriptive. Which I don't want to. Any how, we feel this person is the most unpolished. In a recording, professional situation when were trying to get attention from labels we don't feel this person is cutting it well enough. But we see work and appreciate the progress. If this person was a complete work in progress and to far off, I would say forget it. Certainly better than a lot of players out there, just not where the rest of us are. Any how, we are pretty energetic at our shows. So sometimes that can overshadow the musical performance. Which is fine. I'm not worried. We ALL get compliments and so on. We like to talk about the band compliments or if there's something someone noticed that wasn't to hip. Except this one member. Who only talks about the individual compliments this person gets. I feel were all relatively good players and are bound to impress some people as individuals. This person is the least of a team player. So it fits that they would only talk about themselves. Can you imagine going on tour and having a round-robin discussion about how cool everyone said you were every night after the show. I'd hang myself.

Sorry for the cryptic story. I love my band and believe in it, and I know were going to do some cool things. I will actually do a few Gig spams soon.

 

As for the original post: It's hard when you are attacked, 2 members agree with you but you are the only one fighting back. That's what I gather. I didn't see anything about drummer dude or the vocalist sticking up for you. Your band doesn't have to break up or off from the guitarists. But if it's aimed at you and your the only one doing the fighting, it's just a silly "Yes it is, no it isn't" fight. So at the expense of not breaking egos but chilling players whom you seem to dearly appreciate; get the other 2 members to move in and speak up with finesse. If all else fails, do whatever you need to do or say. At that point your fighting for the outcome of your current band's existance. It seems worth fighting for.

[Tenstrum]

Several months have gone by and stuff has happened.

 

1) Our drummer quit/fired because his new job wouldn't allow him to practice.

 

2) We actually found another drummer pretty quickly and he has been working out pretty good.

 

3) Jealous guitarist #1 hasn't shown up for a single practice in 3 weeks.

 

Kinda funny: Since guitarist #1 hasn't been showing up, guitarist #2 is a totally different person when he's not around. Laid back, likes to joke around and even gives out compliments.

180 degree different person. It's like he gets really uptight around another guitarist.

But, he wants to find another guitarist to do the fill-ins and the other stuff that guitarist #1 used to do. I wouldn't mind getting another guitarist as long as the previous situation doesn't return. I would actually like to remain a 4 piece band. More room for every body. We've all talked and as of now, we're going to look for another guitarist, but if we can't find one that fits in, it's not going to keep us from playing out.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Originally posted by Toad Strum:

Kinda funny: Since guitarist #1 hasn't been showing up, guitarist #2 is a totally different person when he's not around.

I think you may have found the weak spot then.

 

How's it working out?

 

Cheers,

 

Eddie