Tenstrum Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I love the original material that my new band is playing, but the 2 guitarists have serious ego issues... The singer and I are good friends so he tells me what they say about me behind my back. The basically say that I'm too loud, I'm not good enough, I don't share the bands vision, and I don't cooperate. Myself, the singer, the drummer, and every body else who has heard us say bullsh*t!!!! They start in on this everytime someone gives me a compliment and not them. It's really a shame, because these 2 guys are both phenomenal. I love playing with these guys. They are very creative and they drive me to be even more creative. I try not to step on anyone's toes and I've even made it a point to ask them what they think about my bass lines. What they say (at least to my face) is that they sound great. My singer loves the stuff i come up with and the drummer and I always lock in together. A recent example of what happened: A former professional nationally known bass player comes by our practice this weekend to check us out. We invited him over so that he could help get us some gigs. After we jam, he compliments me and tells me he really likes my playing. Instant Jealously from Guitarist #1. Nationally Known Bass Player tries to talk to me about everything bass. Guitarist #1 spends the rest of the evening trying to pull Nationally Known Bass Player away to talk about his stuff and how great he is. Example #2: We play a battle of the bands. After our set, a young kid comes up to me and compliments me. Guitarist #2 goes instant jealous and starts talking about how he should start putting on a show so he can get compliments. I just don't understand... It's almost like they feel I'm overshadowing them or something. I honestly am not doing anything like that. I'm not trying to compete with them or anything, but they see it as that. I almost laughed when singer dude told me about them wanting someone better. They want someone worse who will do nothing but hold the root note down and do as told. I don't think I'm the world's greatest bass player or anything. I think I'm decent and I do like to explore possibilities, but what I play definitely fits the music. Everyone else but the 2 guitarists agree. If they keep it up, it's going to hurt the band. Singer Dude hears stuff from them all the time. He has told them that if I go, he goes (I love having him as a friend) and I know that they would hate to loose him much more than me. But they still run their mouths. It just flabergasts me that they are this way. There is no reason for it. I've even turned down and held my playing back a little to apease them, but they still talk about me. They can talk all they want. I don't care. But they are hurting the band and don't realize it. As long as they dont' try to screw me over, I'll just keep playing my lines and thank people for their compliments... Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnb Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 1) In the event of a split, are you positive the singer and drummer are on your side? 2) Guitarist are a dime a dozen. Need I say more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 The singer definitely. The drummer 50/50. I agree, but our original stuff is awesome. Some of the best I've ever played. I just hate the way they get so jealous. Ain't no need for it. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fonz Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Originally posted by tnb: 1) In the event of a split, are you positive the singer and drummer are on your side? 2) Guitarist are a dime a dozen. precisely. you can't take a leak without hitting a guitar player. as long as the drummer and the singer are willing to walk with you, walk. it sounds like the only thing keeping you in this band is the material. i certainly know how that feels. ihave to ask, do the guitar players write everything? if not, f#$k 'em, what do you need them for? if they do let me hep you to this little gem: he who writes the music gets all the money. it's simple copywrite law. do you think anyone that much of a glory hog is going to share a writing credit with you? in that case good luck getting paid. my advice is to run away, far away, and take the singer and drummer with you. you guys are a LOT harder to find than guitar players, and thusly guitar players will wet themselves with joy in finding a situation where they can just walk into an established rythm section. Eeeeeehhhhhhhhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 The ever-sage tnb sez: 2) Guitarists are a dime a dozen. A great Seattle bassist once said that "guitarists are more plentiful than hydrogen in the universe". It's something to think about. That said, back in the Chicago 'burbs I knew and occasionally jammed with 4 different drummers ranging in ability from competent to fantastic, but we had trouble finding guitarists w/ the time or reliability to turn any of those situations into something regular that could result in gigs. However, talkin' behind your back is evil. That should be addressed. Peace. --SW spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc_dup1 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 You guys are still paying a dime for a dozen guitarists over the pond? Sounds steep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Well bc, it is a Baker's Dozen. Ace Cracker, I noticed the several (well, 2) urination references. Do these stem from deep seated issues? Tell me what you think of your mother. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/atmofmn/Bass/DeepThoughtsBS.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Find another band. That's junior high school stuff, and has already killed any future, so why waste your time. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butcherNburn Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 It always seems like this phenomenon is decreased with only 1 guitarist.. That also allows you to open up your playing as well too. Can you turn the 2 on each other and end up with the most tolerable player? Their egos probably can't handle the competition. If you think my playing is bad, you should hear me sing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hoffman Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Argh I would leave. Actually first I would try to get the drummer and singer together backin me up then I'd get the guitars' attention next rehearsal and just drop the hammer - be like from now on no more games or the both of you walk and find another gig. Or I walk and find another gig. Bands are made up of a completely super-secret formula only the luckiest of bands have ever gotten it right. Well thats what I like to think, at least...you can't force anything. "The world will still be turning when you've gone." - Black Sabbath Band site: www.finespunmusic.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Out of curiosity, who is this nationally known bass player that you guys brought into a rehearsal to check you out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu Fhtagn Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I think I'm going to play devil's advocate here. You know, there are some times where it is better (at least in the short term) to shut up and put up. Not that I'm taking anyone's side (I don't know you, your band, or the family dynamic), but it seems that the only problem you have right now is bruised egos. That in of itself should not be the cause of dismantling the band. By virtue of being up on a stage (which not everyone is inclined to do) and play an instrument (which not everyone is inclined to do) with a few other people requires a modicum of ego. Guitarists maybe more plentiful than Hydrogen in the universe (except in North Dakota), but talented ones are rare, and very talented ones are as rare as transuranic elements (look it up). And very talented guitarist that are amicable and easy to get a long with are as plentiful as antimatter. As long as you are able to stand looking at the guy without bonking him on the head with a Fender American Jazz, you are probably in better shape than most of us. That doesn't mean stop looking for better/brighter/gregariouser (not a word). Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moot Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 but it seems that the only problem you have right now is bruised egos. That in of itself should not be the cause of dismantling the band. - Social CriticA true statement, however, in my experience, that is exactly what ends a band. Egos and the inability to deal with them on a rational adult level. Some guitar players I have been with have been perfectly "normal" human beings but I think they are the minority. Most that I have known and jammed with have been immature, insecure approval mongers who need constant strokes and have to be the center of attention. I can't imagine 2 of those in the same group! The last thing you need is a clique within a small group. Get out. Take whomever will come and get out. Or, like was said above, if the singer and drummer are with you, fire the 2 junior high chicks. I know around here you can't swing a dead cat ( or take a leak) without hittin' a guitar player. "He is to music what Stevie Wonder is to photography." getz76 I have nothing nice to say so . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhurstlmt Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I agree with Social Critic. Guitarists are a dime a dozen, but good guitarists are not. However, I don't expect you to stick around until you end up shooting yourself or dropping your cabinet on a guitarist. I would give it time enough to where you are sure that you want to leave. I wouldn't leave if I was still wondering if I should stay. Maybe you need to bring it up. There are times when getting this kind of thing out in the open can be good. Before you leave I would talk to them and see if it is fixable. If it is not then you can still walk and have lost nothing. However if it is a semi-easy fix it may be worth the try. Good luck with whatever you try. Let your speech be better than silence, or be silent. For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, none will suffice. "Rindase!" "Rendirme? Que se rinda su abuela, *#@!^$" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a boy named sue Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I'm the guy who sits on the root and talks to the drummer while we're playing, so I'm not sure I'm much help. However, have you realy nutted out the parts that everyone is playing? If these guitarists are as good as they/you think they are its possible that they're not playing lines due to the lack of space and have visions of taking the songs into new places if only someone would hold it together. Seems like a writing problem more than anything else. They're probably bitching because they both have difficulty doing "their thing" with you driving the song where you want to go. They don't bitch to you because they like the way the song ends up sounding. my 2c A man is not usually called upon to have an opinion of his own talents at all; he can very well go on improving them to the best of his ability without deciding on his own precise niche in the temple of Fame. -- C.S.Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 It seems that I agree with everything everyone said. I shouldn't have to put up with all the back talking, and we've already had a talk about people talking about other people behind their backs and thought the issue was settled. But I haven't reached the point yet where push comes to shove and I'm ready to walk. We've got the makings of a killer band, if everything works out. The orginal stuff is really good and I don't want to leave just yet. I pretty much consider this band my last chance to be a wanna be rock star. I'm gettting too old to stay up all hours of the night and hurt too much to keep jumping around like an idiot. After this band is over, I'm switching to upright and playing bluegrass with my dad's band. I know he won't stab me in the back. These two guys are incredible awesome and I was really excited when they told me that they wanted me as the bass player. I'm still excited about the possibilities... I'm staying for a while longer. They haven't really done anything other than talk so far. But the minute that try to screw me over, I'm out and taking singer with me. I really really hope they get over themselves soon. Especially since we are starting to get some gigs and have completed a 5 song demo. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Any sound clips to share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moot Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I pretty much consider this band my last chance to be a wanna be rock star. I'm gettting too old to stay up all hours of the night and hurt too much to keep jumping around like an idiot. - Tenstrum I'm completely with you on that. While I do have the luxury of a great guitarist and drummer who are dedicated to making the band work, the singer is iffy and she wrote all the original lyrics. Even though we don't know what the hell she's saying most of the time, we can't exactly go on without her. I'm getting old and tired and getting home at 3:00 a.m. is also getting old and tired. If this band folds, I'm done with rock. Perhaps a jazz combo or a blues band. Anything but country. "He is to music what Stevie Wonder is to photography." getz76 I have nothing nice to say so . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 Sorry, I don't post sound clips on the web. Especially sound clips of non copyrighted material. I agree...ANYTHING but country. Big difference between country and Bluegrass! (a whole different thread)! As for the nationally known bass player... Since he had a pretty violent break up with his band, i doubt he would like me splattering his name all over the web. He's definitely enjoying the simpler life now. Nice guy over all. So I'll do the respect thing and keep his existince quiet. Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gord -B Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Originally posted by bc: You guys are still paying a dime for a dozen guitarists over the pond? Sounds steep. Derek Smalls: It's like fire and ice, basically. I feel my role in the band is to be somewhere in the middle of that, kind of like lukewarm water. http://www.myspace.com/gordonbache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lug Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 The solution is simple. Tell guitarist #2 that guitarist #1 said his leads were shite. After about 12 miliseconds, you will have a 4 piece band, adjust set list accordingly. You can stop now -jeremyc STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu Fhtagn Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Originally posted by mattulator: A true statement, however, in my experience, that is exactly what ends a band. Egos and the inability to deal with them on a rational adult level. Bruised egos have never ended a band. Egos that try and run over each other with the band's van in the parking lot are what end bands. Egos with their own zip code (e.g. Axl Rose, David Lee Roth) end bands. "Creative Difference (Sanskrit for "My Ego is better than your Ego") end bands. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklab Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Just out of curiosity, how old are these guys? And how much experience do they have? Obligatory Social Media Link "My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomWil Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Originally posted by lug: The solution is simple. Tell guitarist #2 that guitarist #1 said his leads were shite. After about 12 miliseconds, you will have a 4 piece band, adjust set list accordingly.Exactly, weed out the weaker player, even if only temporarily, until he sees playing with a good band, even if he isn't the focus, is better than sitting around with his thumb up his ass. Or, jam with another guitarist, first just you, then you and the drummer, then you the drummer and the singer. Call it a side project. after a few practices, if you current guitarists are still all whiny, take the better band. "F--k Damnation, F--k Redemption." Tyler Durden-FIGHT CLUB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenstrum Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 Exactly, weed out the weaker player The problem is, neither of these guys are weak players. Both are phenominal. Or, jam with another guitarist,This band started as a side project that quickly became full time. But like I said, last go at being a wanna be... how old are these guys Early 30's. Old enough that they should have grown up long ago... And now for some more drama....Drummer calls saying he can't make it to practice tonight because he's started a new job that requires him to work night. Then goes on to states that he can only practice one night a week...*groan*. I'm so ready to announce an early retirement... Tenstrum "Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." Harry Dresden, Storm Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred TBP Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 This situation just needs to be 180-ed. Take the singer and drummer with you and audition your own guitar players. May take a while to weed through the auditions, but you'll all be better off in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I disagree with ALL the above advice! Tenstrum is on the right track. The band should be able to remain intact, and get on with the business of playing the great material at hand. All y'all are getting too much into skullduggery... Guitarists are like women; a lot of great guitarists in history have been notoriously insecure. Tenstrum, here's what I recommend: Every time you get a compliment on your playing accept it graciously. Then immediately turn the spotlight on the guitarists! Bring your fans to meet them; tell the fans how great each guitarist is, how great a guitar tandem they are, how great their contributions to the creation process and songwriting and performances. (NOTE: this is clearly NOT false stuff as you are singing their praises right here on this Forum.) If the only thing standing between you and a great musical experience is the need to occasionally stroke an ego or two, IMO it's a no-brainer. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercenaryBassist Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I agree with coyote. If this is just some petty jealousy then a little spotlight should help (after all that's showbiz and guitarists are frontmen). But if its more than that - if they are control freaks and try to run the band based on that jealousy - get out. I've been in 2 bands like that. In one band the guitarist fueled his insecurities with drugs and wouldn't trust anybody while at the same time declared that what he said was law in the band. In the other band the guitarist (who started the band) was a passive agressive control freak with a condescending attitude towards the bass. Both situations were absolutely intolerable. The first band dissolved when the guitar player didn't show for a gig and I quit the other (a person can only take so much crap). Will play bass for food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 And now for some more drama....Drummer calls saying he can't make it to practice tonight because he's started a new job that requires him to work night. Then goes on to states that he can only practice one night a week...*groan*. I'm so ready to announce an early retirement...Some of the bands I play in never rehearse. We sound fine. The only time we get together is to learn new tunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Ben stole my line. Rehearsal once a week should be sufficient, even if you are writing new tunes. The only time I'll rehearse more than once a week with a band is if we haven't played a show in a while and we have one coming up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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