Bass players input wanted

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Hey,

 

I'm going to build a bass. There are some cosmetic aspects which are not going to change.

 

It is going to look like an old Tele or original P-Bass. The single coil pickup, black pickgard, maple neck, etc. This is the way that it is going to be.

 

So my question comes to the choice of pickups. Duncan makes a vintage single coil and a hotter version single coil. To get a reasonable bass sound, do I want one of these? Or someone else's single coil vintage retrofit? I want the best sound within those cosmetic perameters.

 

All suggestions and opinions welcome, but it -will- be built cosmetically as close to the original look as possible, so suggestions shuold take that into account.

 

Bill

[BenLoy]

If you're really hardcore about getting it to sound like the old '51 Precisions, I'd recommend giving Lindy Fralin a call.

 

http://www.fralinpickups.com/

[jeremy c]

I've got a Seymour Duncan Antiquities pickup in a P-bass copy and I could not be happier.

 

In the studio this bass sounded identical to a '68 Precision.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by BenLoy:

If you're really hardcore about getting it to sound like the old '51 Precisions, I'd recommend giving Lindy Fralin a call.

 

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Well, that is the point. I'm not a bass player. I want something that a bass player is going to like, in terms of sound. (Rock and roll music)

It's the 51 Precision -look- that I'm hardcore about. The sound? I'm open to suggestions from those more knowlegable than myself.

 

Bill

[DONUTHOLE]

If you aren't too set on the look of the single coil,the split coil P seems to be most peoples choice including mine. Its just a more present,fatter sounding deal. I find the singles a little hollow sounding. The one magnet per pickup thing is annoying,too.

 

If you are for sure about the single. My best results were with the Hot single screwed down pretty far away from the strings.

[a boy named sue]

It's the 51 Precision -look- that I'm hardcore about. The sound? I'm open to suggestions from those more knowlegable than myself.

I like having a hot signal, hi-fi sound comming out of my bass. I then get rid of all the high end -- but it's nice to know its there when/if I need it.

 

My guess, however, is that those who want the 51 P bass look also want that sound.

[musicalhair]

Hey Bill,

 

I can't speak highly enough about the Alembic pickups:

 

http://www.alembic.com/prod/pickups.html

 

They just sound amazing and the range of useful tones their filters give you is almost endless.

[...]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

I've got a Seymour Duncan Antiquities pickup in a P-bass copy and I could not be happier.

 

In the studio this bass sounded identical to a '68 Precision.

I have the same pickups in my Lull P4. Jeremy (unwillingly?) convinced me that they were the shiznizzle and I had Mike put them in that bass. I couldn't be happier with the tone. It's huge. It's a P bass. The kids love it.

 

If you don't go with the Duncans, the Lindy Fralins that The Loy is speaking of are also quite tasty. I have Fralins on one of my jazz bassses and they are friggin' bad ass.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

I want something that a bass player is going to like, in terms of sound. (Rock and roll music)

I'd go for a split coil pickup - much fatter and more versatile sound than the orignal single coil. The Antiquities is a great example.

 

You might also like to consider a Jazz neck (though I can see that being a problem with the Tele headstock) as their slimmer profile is preferred by many players.

 

Alex

[rumpelstiltskin.]

in dissent, i've always loved the sound of an old single coil p-bass pickup. i have to agree that lindy fralin will probably get it most desirably, but the duncan is not a bad choice, either.

 

i guess i can't really speak for other bass players. further, i also really like the schecter rob't deleo model T bass, which has the shape of an original P, except with a split-coil P pickup and a J pickup in the bridge position. that's also a very sweet bass whose tones many bass players will love.

 

robb.

[BenLoy]

The problem many people have had with the original precisions is that their single coil pickup was a little too "spiky."

 

That being said, you could hardly go wrong with a classic P-Bass to make a bass player happy...unless they want to sound like Ryan Martinie from MudVayne or something.

[NickT]

bpark...you said that you wanted the look of a single-coil P-bass, but also that you want something that bass players are going to like. There is a reason why the design changed from the single to a split coil, and why it never changed back...lots of bass players prefered the sound. I think you may need to compromise on the look and go with a split coil pick up on a '51 style body to get the balance between look and sound.

 

C.Alex makes a good point about the J-type neck, it's much less hard work on the left hand and bass players always like an easy life. Bump...correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't your Lull P have a J-type neck?

 

bpark...what is more important, the look or the sound?

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by NickT:

 

bpark...what is more important, the look or the sound?

 

That is a silly question in that it assumes that no other pickup on earth is going to work in a bass other than a split pickup in a Precicion style, and that is just not true.

 

I'm a guitar player, and though the humbucker may be a fine pickup and there are many super variations of that size and style, I can also recommend several other very find pickups in other sizes that will rock your world and put a smile on your face.

 

If it is impossible to make a recomendation within the perameters that I set, okay, I'll go with a stock Fender or Duncan drop in and not worry about it.

 

But I specifically asked here to get the input from bass players, who might be in touch with information that I don't have, not being a bass player.

 

Bill

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Thanks to those who have replied so far. I'll check back often to see if there have been any further suggestions. I appreciate the help.

 

And to those guys who are trying to convince me to change the design.... I appreciate that you have my interests at heart. But the design is a lock, and I can't change it.

 

Thanks again.

 

Bill

[getz out]

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

That is a silly question in that it assumes that no other pickup on earth is going to work in a bass other than a split pickup in a Precicion style, and that is just not true.

Agreed, but I think the point was that you are using a design (of pickup) that is no longer produced enmass.

 

Asking for "what bass players like, sound wise" gave you the answer; which is mostly split-coil P pickups and single-coil J pickups. Except on replica copies of the original P, you don't see much in single-coil P pickup designs, especially with that pickup placement.

 

That said, with your parameters, you should still stick with the single-coil design as you reiterated. However, you must accept the fact that there may be some trade-off between asthetics and performance.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

That is a silly question in that it assumes that no other pickup on earth is going to work in a bass other than a split pickup in a Precicion style, and that is just not true.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion?

 

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

If it is impossible to make a recomendation within the perameters that I set, okay, I'll go with a stock Fender or Duncan drop in and not worry about it.

The problem is that there is a much smaller choice when it comes to '51 style pickups. Standard J-bass pickup will not fit in that rout.

 

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

But I specifically asked here to get the input from bass players, who might be in touch with information that I don't have, not being a bass player.

A purist '51 style bass would be a cool instrument. However it's not as straight-forward a meat and potatoes bass as a '57 Precision or a Jazz bass. The little single coil pickup gives it a very true dynamic response (enhanced by many players plucking directly over the pickup) which can be more difficult to get onto tape than the fatter rounder sound from later Fenders.

 

If this bass is going to be the only one with which you track songs then I can see problems of fitting it with certain styles of music - I can't see it hanging in noisy rock mixes or delivering the fatness required for funk or reggae.

 

On the other hand, if it's going to be another option which visiting bassists have to choose from, then it could be lifesaver, it's thin wirey tone being the one that fits when the usual choices don't.

 

To put it in guitar terms - if you want a Les Paul or Strat, then get a '57 P-bass or J-bass - but if you want that quirky other option, like a Danelectro or big-hollowbody-jazz-type-thang, then keep the '51 pure.

 

Alex

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by C.Alexander Claber:

"...A purist '51 style bass would be a cool instrument. However it's not as straight-forward a meat and potatoes bass as a '57 Precision or a Jazz bass. ..."

 

yes, I get that.

 

"...The little single coil pickup gives it a very true dynamic response (enhanced by many players plucking directly over the pickup) ..."

 

Thanks for the info.

 

"If this bass is going to be the only one with which you track songs..."

 

Far from it. I own 3 basses, and I am currently storing about 20 for my brother, the bass player. His focus has been on modern rather than vintage sounds and instruments, so I'm asking here. But this is probably going to be used for live more than recording work.

 

 

Bill

[BigKahuna855]

I own 3 basses, and I am currently storing about 20 for my brother

YOWZERS!!!!!!

 

on a more serious note, ask your brother to join us in the lowdown, we are always open to new faces..err...avatars!

 

i have no comment on your pickup problem

[NickT]

bpark...my comments were based on the assumption that this was going to be a "one size fits all" bass that many players would use for many different things. If this was the case then the split-coil would be the way to go.

 

However, this sounds like it will be one colour in a broad range of options then I would recommend getting as close to the stock '51 sound, so that I think points to a Fender pick-up. I would still recommend going with a Jazz neck for it's slimmer, easier to play profile.

[badgerbass]

"It is going to look like an old Tele or original P-Bass. The single coil pickup, black pickgard, maple neck, etc. This is the way that it is going to be."

 

Why? Why limit yourself? Do you think that only these shapes will appeal to bassplayers? It bugs me that so many guiatars and basses look so much like Fenders. They will go through this elaborate design process and then...put a headstock on it that looks just like a Fender. Be creative for cryin out loud!

 

Oh, and how do you expect to design a good bass if you don't play bass? Would you expect a well-designed car from an engineer who doesn't drive?

 

Tough questions, I know. Nothing personal.

 

Badger

[moot]

Why? Why limit yourself? Do you think that only these shapes will appeal to bassplayers? It bugs me that so many guiatars and basses look so much like Fenders. - badgerbass

Amen brother badger. Your building a bass dude! What a great opportunity to do something unique and creative!

 

If it's going to look just like "something else", and be equipped just like "something else", it follows it will sound just like "something else" so why not just go out and buy the "something else"??

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by mattulator:

If it's going to look just like "something else", and be equipped just like "something else", it follows it will sound just like "something else" so why not just go out and buy the "something else"??

Yeah, so have you priced a 1951 Precision Bass lately?

 

I'm the first guy to say what you have said. It frustrates me when guys say, "It sounds almost as good as a Strat.." If you want a Strat, buy a Strat. I agree. But a 1951 Precision is out of my price league. Building a 1951 Precision to fit the needs of a performing act, that sounds good, is NOT out of my league. It ain't even a big deal. And since that is probably THE bass used on 50% of the original recordings of the music that this act performs, making one with an original sounding pickup is not a bad idea.

 

I come to you guys for input relating to my needs, not for what I don't need. What I figure that a bass player can tell me is like, "the Duncan Vintage actually does capture the original sound, but the new hotter Duncan has a rounder tone that we like a lot" or "The Duncan Vintage sucks, but the Terbo Crumpus 51 PBass pickup is terrific".... Know what I mean? The kind of things that any guitar player could tell you about guitar pickups, if you ask. (Sometimes you don't even have to ask....)

 

Bill

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by badgerbass:

"It is going to look like an old Tele or original P-Bass. The single coil pickup, black pickgard, maple neck, etc. This is the way that it is going to be."

 

Why? Why limit yourself? !

 

Oh, and how do you expect to design a good bass if you don't play bass? Would you expect a well-designed car from an engineer who doesn't drive?

 

Badger

Dude,

 

not tough questions. Just questions that didn't pay very much attention to my post, because you have your own agenda. That's okay, but aim that thing somewhere else, okay?

 

I didn't say that I didn't play bass. I said that I am not a bass player. The distinction may escape you.

 

And the fact that I am locked into a design should indicate that there must be a reason. It has nothing to do with what I want or don't want, and everything to do with what this particular situation dictates.

 

In terms of designing and building my own instruments, been there and done that, in the 70s. In the long run I find that I was just re-inventing the wheel. When I play out I have a custom built guitar, but my studio is filled with vintage instruments and amps to get the authentic sound.

 

As for your car analogy, that is silly. You don't have to know how to drive to design a car. You hbve to know a lot about physics and engineering to design a car. Very few drivers could design a car worth a shit.

 

Bill

[moot]

Humblest of appologies Bpark.

 

I hear what you are saying. I recently found myself in need of a small practice cabinet and rather than buy the $650 unit I wanted, I copied the design and spent about 1/2 the dough.

 

Don't get so frustrated though - evrybody here really is trying to help.

[Rick Hoffman]

So this is what happens when we let g**tar players post on the lowdown...

Haha JK

Welcome, friend. As far as pickups go, I never built a bass, I just laid down the loot on the real McCoy (most of the basses I ever owned were american fenders. i recently bought a squier, and I'm now using it for kindling)

But if I were building a bass, I wouldn't go aftermarket- although Loy and some other guys had some good modern suggestions.

I would search Ebay for vintage pickups first before I went aftermarket.

Good luck!

[rumpelstiltskin.]

you know that fender has reissued several variations on the '51 p, right? i mean, there's a '51RI, a sting signature, blue flower and pink paisley RIs. however, what you may be more intersted in is either a fender mike dirnt signature or a schecter rob't deleo model T. the fender has a 60s P split-coil pickup; the model T has a split-coil P in the neck and a j in the bridge. and you can buy a black pickguard to replace the factory whitey.

 

they both come in black and sunburst. if you're going to build a bass, you may well want to base your desgins off of either of these basses. vintage looks with a more universal set of sounds. not purist, true, but since i'm the only one here who actually likes the old single coil reissues (particularly on the blue flower '51RI), i will have to concede most people are looking for something else.

 

robb.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Hi Robb,

 

Thanks fot the pointers.

 

Actually, I didn't really know that Fender was still reissuing various Tele/non contoured Precision basses until last night, when I went on ebay and started looking around.

 

I was really surprised to see a bass dubbed the 51, yet in a blue flower finish. The 51 was Precision and had limited finish options, and the Blue Flower finish was from the late 1960s Telecaster bass. Really a pretty strange and incongruous mix, at least to me.

 

This of course leads me to the obvious question.... are these basses... the Sting, the various 51 reissues that all seem to be made in japan.... are they up to snuff, re: quality, playability, fit and finish? I mean, a pickup can be changed, but if the neck wobbles or just generally is poor, .... know what I mean? Sure would be cheaper than building one, if the quality is there.

 

Bill

[BenLoy]

The japanese Fenders are generally good instruments. I've played many examples and they're all built well. Some I have even preferred to their american counterparts.

[wraub]

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

This of course leads me to the obvious question.... are these basses... the Sting, the various 51 reissues that all seem to be made in japan.... are they up to snuff, re: quality, playability, fit and finish? I mean, a pickup can be changed, but if the neck wobbles or just generally is poor, .... know what I mean? Sure would be cheaper than building one, if the quality is there.

 

Bill

IME, the average Japanese built bass is as good as the average American made bass, in general. Sometimes far better.

This is not as true yet for instruments made in other Asian markets, but they are catching up really fast.

As always, the best way to find the right one is to play and compare.

I have played the Sting model, and found it solid and playable. I don't dig signature instruments, usually, but would consider one of these if in the market. The last '51RI I played had apalling action but still sounded OK.

I would agree that this avenue sounds most economical. Good luck with your search.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[DONUT]

There is a warmoth on ebay right now that looks good.