What really happened to MILITANT/PROTEST music?

[jeremy c]

And what exactly are they militant about?

 

What war or cause is the song about?

[DONUT]

Killing Joke's music is pretty heavy that way. Especially their latest 2003 release.

 

I just bought a CD by a metal band called Arch Enemy that leans that way as well.

 

That stuff just doesn't get on the radio or TV.

 

It's all about a party,which would be fine,too,if most of the music didn't suck as bad as it does. There seems to be more and more focus on the celebrity element of it which makes me sick to my stomach. Its all over the place now. As if any of us should really care about Beyonces diet and workout regiment,or whatever. People do though. They must,because you can't turn on the tv or radio without hearing about it. Things will change. They have to.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

In Reggae, there's now Morgan Heritage and Luciano who sing about the 'Back to Africa movement' but are more into Rastafari as a spiritual belief.

Then you got the 'Blazing fire...bun dem' Reggae artists like Capleton, Anthony B, Buju Banton, Bounty Killa and Sizzla. These have had their music banned from Jamaica radio. Highly politically charged, anti-establishment and anti-church (as in Roman Catholic, Anglican etc..) These artists are as radical as you can ever get.

 

The recent resurgence of Reggae dancehall as a commercially viable genre (Shaggy, Sean Paul, Elephant Man etc..) has led to some of the above artists 'mellowing' so as to enter the US market!! Shame.

As someone said, 'we all gotta eat, families to feed'.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Now, granted I don't have the best history for reading TSBR's "unorthodox" threads, but it seems to me that he probably views militant the way I do--it's not about the specific viewpoint, it's about the call to action. Still, I think you're right in that militant is probably not the best description to use. It's a bit loaded.

Loaded? Lighten up man.

May I remind you that in the music that I 'major' in, the best ever basslines are from militant music? Sir, I'm talking about bass. Without this music, I for one wouldn't be playing bass.

[Thomas Wilburn]

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

Now, granted I don't have the best history for reading TSBR's "unorthodox" threads, but it seems to me that he probably views militant the way I do--it's not about the specific viewpoint, it's about the call to action. Still, I think you're right in that militant is probably not the best description to use. It's a bit loaded.

Loaded? Lighten up man.

May I remind you that in the music that I 'major' in, the best ever basslines are from militant music? Sir, I'm talking about bass. Without this music, I for one wouldn't be playing bass.

Lighten up yourself. Rock music isn't exactly calm puppies and sunshine either. Reggae does not have a monopoly on bass or on revolution. Read the rest of the thread. There's a sincere reason, as Adamixoye and I discuss, why the term militant may not be appropriate.

 

Are you trying to say that the term militant does not mean a call to action? Are you trying to argue that the point of view of the listener is (as was pointed out by others) an influence on what is considered militant?

 

Jeremy's right. You need to listen to some other music before you start making these bizarre assertions of yours.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Jeremy's right. You need to listen to some other music before you start making these bizarre assertions of yours.

And he usually is, except this time. I'm sure that

1. I listen to alot more genres than you do.

2. I don't recall writing that Reggae is the only militant music.

 

While we are at it, let's try and speak to most people who've been actually involved in revolutions worldwide (if you know any), and ask them which music inspires them the most. Reggae music comes first on the list.

It's NOT the only militant music, but it's at the forefront.

Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye's What's going on and others mentioned in the threads are all militant to me.

 

Back to the topic, I'm still waiting to hear from someone who knows if there's any NEW militant groups out there. By militant, I mean protest groups.

[Jimbroni]

WOW

Based your lack of knowledge of well very important artists in the history of music, I seriously doubt that you listen to more genres than anybody else here.

 

You didn't know who Frank Sinatra was for crying out loud

Jaco

Vic

If I wanted to I could go on and on. If I search for a few threads

 

I know I mentioned one NEW artist who makes Marley look like a choir boy. Ani Difranco is as Militant as they get. Marley is in my personel top five by the way and I don't necessarily consider him militant he preached against the violence the militant rudies were creating. Many people here have mentioned other artists, who I'll eventually check out and so should you.

 

You want more how bout

U2

Bad Religion

Sting

Sinead O'Connor

How bout Dixie Chicks for standing up to Bush

Even Madonna can be quite hard politically

These are just mainstream there are millions of non mainstream protest bands out there.

 

I think the problem is you're choice of the word militant.

[Thomas Wilburn]

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

Jeremy's right. You need to listen to some other music before you start making these bizarre assertions of yours.

And he usually is, except this time. I'm sure that

1. I listen to alot more genres than you do.

2. I don't recall writing that Reggae is the only militant music.

 

While we are at it, let's try and speak to most people who've been actually involved in revolutions worldwide (if you know any), and ask them which music inspires them the most. Reggae music comes first on the list.

It's NOT the only militant music, but it's at the forefront.

Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye's What's going on and others mentioned in the threads are all militant to me.

 

Back to the topic, I'm still waiting to hear from someone who knows if there's any NEW militant groups out there. By militant, I mean protest groups.

Reggae is the top, forefront protest music of the world? I'm sure that's of great interest to the Chinese, who have conducted multiple revolutions without it. Ditto for the constant political upheaval of some countries in South America. How in the world do they revolt without reggae? AMAZING. You know, come to think of it, I don't think many people in the Phillipines listen to much reggae, but they've had their fair share of political and social upheavals in the last decade or so. Ditto for what I would consider one of the most influential upheavals of the 20th century, the conversion of the Soviet Union from communism. Somehow, I would guess that the music associated with that and some related revolutions (Afghanistan, Chechnya, etc.) had no reggae ties.

 

The revolution in Serbia that overthrew Slobodan Milosevic was funded by a group called Otpor. They were a bunch of very smart kids who took lessons from Tiananmen Square and the Internet, and led a sizable push to remove a genocidal tyrant from power. Taking a cue from the American 60's and 70's, they based much of their youth appeals on rock and roll, including radio and free protest concerts. Dub artists were not, as far as anyone can tell, an integral part of the music.

 

You don't recall writing that reggae is the only militant music. Fine. But it's the only music you have referenced in the entire thread. You have no problem placing it at the forefront of an imaginary list, one that I think most of us would find debateable. It's entirely possible that you have listened to more genres of music than I have, although it's an astoundingly bold comment to make. However, when you are incapable of addressing them for the purposes of the thread that you have started, you have weakened your argument immeasurably.

 

There are many types of protest music. They generally are tied specifically to the culture that they hope to move, because that's where they gain their psychological resonance. For that reason, I highly doubt that we will find many cultures outside of the West Indies and Africa that employ reggae. Your claim that it is at the forefront of protest music is demonstrably false unless we restrict our argument only to these geographic regions--bringing us back to the problem of your listening habits. Open your mind, and your ass will follow.

 

You would hold What's Going On as militant, when it's clearly a pacifistic protest song. Then you insist that we find examples that have helped spark revolution. Then we're back to militancy as protest songs. Make up your mind.

 

Other people in this thread have pointed out numerous bands that fit your specification of "NEW militant groups," or at least told you where to find them. You can keep waiting all you want, but people have already answered your question, and you're just ignoring them. That's rude, and it contributes to the perception that you're only starting these threads to open controversy. You're trolling.

 

I'm done.

[schmee]

without wishing to get into the personal arguments going on here....

 

i know they are on the verge of getting old, but spearhead comes to mind in the western music scene as an important, "militant", protest group which has a wide following and is very politically active. not to mention they are very good, live as well as on plastic, and not limited by any particular genre, caught somewhere in axis of hip hop.

 

- - -

 

on the issue of dynamics, history teaches us that these things are indeed cyclical and very frequently aren't even something we can observe with any clarity until after the fact.

 

looking at bob's prioirities in the 50s or whenever he began, you'd almost think he was far more concerned about making a top ten record, than he was developing the stirrings of a political movement that would materialize in a new form of music some 10 or 20 years later in the late 70s.

 

look at dillon, here's a guy who started out by being folk music's young hero - largely driven by a desire to be the mext guthrie - only to turn his back on the whole thing at it's apex and simultaneously create the individualist movement of the 60s hippies, while never really being one himself. after a few years of celebrating blowing in the wind as the clarion call of the civil rights movement, folk fans were spitting on him before long.

 

i think the angst in your question might also stem from what seems glaringly obvious as a series of dynamics at play in modern times which practically scream for the kind of protest music/performances you enquire about.

 

their seeming lack of existence, in the swamps of corporatized clear-channel/walmart distribution of american modernity, in such times almost make the void seem ten times it's actual size.

 

but, while i wish it was present on a scale as previous times have shown us possible - i have to agree with most here, that it does exist, in many forms, and in many places, it's just underground, or not as easily recognised for it is something which sounds a lot different to what we know from previous eras.

 

i think it's healthy to ask.

[way2fat]

I remember a pretty militant tune called "If I Had a Rocket Launcher" but don't remember who wrote it. Ben or Bruce somebody.

[Steve Force]

Originally posted by Thomas Wilburn:

... Marvin Gaye's What's going on and others mentioned in the threads are all militant to me.

Marvin's "What's going on?" in its time really had strong social ramifications (post 1967 Detroit Riots, Vietnam, others) and marked the beginning of the end of the Detroit-based

Motown sound. Berry Gordy moved Motown Records to LA shortly thereafter, changing forever the "Motown sound".

 

So, every time I hear this great song I think about how things changed here in Motown, and also I groove on Bob Babbitt's strong bass lines.

 

My .02 Euros.

 

Regards,

[Thomas Wilburn]

Originally posted by forceman:

Originally posted by Thomas Wilburn:

... Marvin Gaye's What's going on and others mentioned in the threads are all militant to me.

Marvin's "What's going on?" in its time really had strong social ramifications (post 1967 Detroit Riots, Vietnam, others) and marked the beginning of the end of the Detroit-based

Motown sound. Berry Gordy moved Motown Records to LA shortly thereafter, changing forever the "Motown sound".

 

So, every time I hear this great song I think about how things changed here in Motown, and also I groove on Bob Babbitt's strong bass lines.

 

My .02 Euros.

 

Regards,

Fair enough. I wasn't alive at the time, personally. Didn't Jamerson do the recorded version of WGO?

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by Thomas Wilburn:

Didn't Jamerson do the recorded version of WGO?

T-Dub:

 

Yes. His playing on that album is fantastic.

 

I've written quite a few dissertation pages listening to it. For some reason the vibe and lyrics of that album go well with sociology. Surprised?

 

Peace.

--SW

[Steve Force]

Originally posted by Thomas Wilburn:

Fair enough. I wasn't alive at the time, personally. Didn't Jamerson do the recorded version of WGO?

No, it was after Bob Babbit took over the bass chair. For verification, I suggest you watch the awesome movie "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" (the Funk Brothers movie available via DVD)where he describes recording it.

 

He mentions it on his website, also (check it out--very informative--played bass on many differing musical styles) Bob Babbitt\'s web site

 

Regards.

[Thomas Wilburn]

Originally posted by Sweet Willie:

Originally posted by Thomas Wilburn:

Didn't Jamerson do the recorded version of WGO?

T-Dub:

 

Yes. His playing on that album is fantastic.

 

I've written quite a few dissertation pages listening to it. For some reason the vibe and lyrics of that album go well with sociology. Surprised?

 

Peace.

--SW

Not at all! Thoughtful music for thoughtful work. The feel of it is so different from most of the material I normally listen to, but it's definitely earned a permanent spot in my playlist.

[Thomas Wilburn]

Originally posted by forceman:

Originally posted by Thomas Wilburn:

Fair enough. I wasn't alive at the time, personally. Didn't Jamerson do the recorded version of WGO?

No, it was after Bob Babbit took over the bass chair. For verification, I suggest you watch the awesome movie "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" (the Funk Brothers movie available via DVD)where he describes recording it.

 

Regards.

Actually, the reason I remember that it was Jamerson is because of that great story on SITSOM about pulling him into the studio while hammered and recording the bassline lying on the floor. Babbitt does do a fine, fine job of handling the part though.

 

He also has (for me) the best part of the documentary. When Me'Shell is interviewing him about the racial violence at the time, and Babbitt tears up. The moment is so powerful, and both of their reactions are so genuine, that I remember that more than any other part of the movie.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by forceman:

No, it was after Bob Babbit took over the bass chair. For verification, I suggest you watch the awesome movie "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" (the Funk Brothers movie available via DVD)where he describes recording it.

 

Regards.

Damn. Really?! Jamerson is the only bassist listed in the album credits.

 

I know there was some confusion about that on some of the Motown recordings, and didn't realize that included WGO. I saw "Standing..." and don't remember the part you've referenced. Perhaps a good reason to see it again?

 

Peace.

--SW

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by Thomas Wilburn:

When Me'Shell is interviewing him about the racial violence at the time, and Babbitt tears up. The moment is so powerful, and both of their reactions are so genuine...

Yeah, man, that was a moment to remember right there.

 

I also dug Me'Shell's vocals on "Cloud Nine".

 

Peace.

--SW

[jeremy c]

I know that Babbitt played on Inner City Blues, but I thought that Jamerson played on What's Going On.

[Steve Force]

After posting this, I did some more checking and now I am not so positive--perhaps it was Jamerson. If so, my bad!

[DONUT]

Originally posted by way2fat:

I remember a pretty militant tune called "If I Had a Rocket Launcher" but don't remember who wrote it. Ben or Bruce somebody.

Great tune!!! Its Bruce Cockburn. Alot of his songs are definitely politically charged.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Other people in this thread have pointed out numerous bands that fit your specification of "NEW militant groups," or at least told you where to find them. You can keep waiting all you want, but people have already answered your question, and you're just ignoring them. That's rude, and it contributes to the perception that you're only starting these threads to open controversy. You're trolling. I'm done QUOTE]

 

You're done? Why? Well I'm not.

 

These are the names that have come up the most: Public Enemy, Rage Against The Machine, Bad Brains, U2, Marley, Meshell Ndegeochello, Fela Kuti, The Clash, Anthrax......need I say more?

 

1. Now mister 'you're trolling', I believe I was writing sense not causing controversy when I wrote or asked about militant music TODAY. How many of the above who've been listed are 'recent/new' recording artists?

 

2. When I said Reggae driving revolutions, I wasn't talking like an uninformed tramp. I knew exactly what I was writing. I did not say it brought down communism (only sarcacism or ignorance can say that). I know from lots of people in Latin America, New Zealand, Asia etc... who proefess the importance of the music in their struggles for justice. I'm not from the school of thought that thinks Reggae = Marley. There are many other artists.

 

I am a member of the Pan African Movement, an organisation that's affiliated with hundreds of other resistance movements in the THIRD WORLD. Rage Against The Machine or U2 are not anywhere near as popular as Reggae artists in these regions. This doesn't make them less relevant in other parts of the world. But that's for someone else with knowledge of those reasons to state. I only write about what I know.

And no, I'm not done.

[BigKahuna855]

am i the only one here that thinks bashing each other based on musical preference or genre exposure is a bit childish?

 

I only listen to rock music, that doesnt make you better than me, or me better than you. it makes us different, and if we werent different, than what would be the point in resistance to anything? nobody would have anything to resist, we would always agree

 

please excuse my ranting, but GROW UP EVERYBODY!!!!

[Adamixoye]

Originally posted by BigKahuna855:

am i the only one here that thinks bashing each other based on musical preference or genre exposure is a bit childish?

Ironically, there's debate about whether or not that's what's actually happening.

 

I love the internet.

[Steve Lawson]

Nice to see both Bruce Cockburn and Spearhead getting a mention - both are in the list of top 10 influences on my politics and ideology, musical or otherwise... Interestingly, Both Cockburn and Michael Franti from Spearhead have both recently been on visits to Bagdhad... it'll be great to see how that informs their songwriting in the future...

 

Other favourite writers like that would include Martyn Joseph (how many other singers have had hit singles with songs written from the perspective of a prostitute single mother and the son of a redundant miner...?), The The, Asian Dub Foundation...

 

It's also worth noting that instrumental music has played a pivotal role in the protest movements through the centuries, with various composers getting locked up for writing seditious music, particularly in Czarist Russia...

 

I certainly see what I do as having a protest element...

 

Steve

www.stevelawson.net

[bc_dup1]

"What's Goin On" is one of the tracks featured in "Standing In The Shadows of Motown", so it appears to be Jamerson. From (my increasingly faulty) memory, in the intro to the track on the accompanying cd James Jamerson Jr tells the story of how his old man came home particularly proud of his days work on the day he recorded WGO. Even if that's not where I heard the story, I've definitely heard it.

[Afro_Man]

I was thinking maybe the protest songs have got a bit more subtle, so we don't notice them as much, for example unkle's an eye for an eye was written about the iraq war but doesn't mention the word war once, yet from the video and from a quick listen to the lyrics tells me that it is an anti war song. maybe they haven't gone maybe they've just got cleverer about it to get more air play and therefore reach more people with the message.

Thats just my personal opinion.

Nic

P.S. people should read the posts more carefully before posting to ensure the message is gotten across clearly, and the same with replys, check you have got the right end of the stick before starting an all out war on the internet.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

am i the only one here that thinks bashing each other based on musical preference or genre exposure is a bit childish?

No, you're not the only one.

Again I say, I can only comment on the genre I happen to have an 'authority' or knowledge of. That doesn't make it better than the other genres. I expect replies to teach me about other genres of which I may not be well versed.

 

For some peculiar reason, the number of people who feel I'm only interested in starting all out 'wars' on this forum is growing. This doesn't make it fact.

 

Good shout Steve Lawson, Spearhead is high on the list. Check out Steel Pulse's album 'Handsworth Revolution'. That album and Linton Kwesi Johnson's 'Inglan is a bitch (if I remember correctly) + 'Dread, beat an blod' are thought to have led to the uprisings and riots by black people in England years ago!!

[Adamixoye]

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

For some peculiar reason, the number of people who feel I'm only interested in starting all out 'wars' on this forum is growing. This doesn't make it fact.

You're right, it doesn't make it fact. It does mean you have to try harder to make sure they think otherwise.

[way2fat]

Tell him all about his logical fallacies.