svt

[pouffe]

I want to get an Ampeg svt head. I've played through 4 of them and really liked 3 of them. Can anyone clue me in as to the differences between the models vintage or new?

[Werewolf by Night]

Hey, I'm just a wandering guitarist who thinks SVT's are cool, but I can't tell you a whole lot about'em; I can tell you that I did a search on this forum for "Ampeg SVT" and got 195 results. Just a friendly tip, 'till a bona fide SVT lovin' bassist replies here! -k

[Cup]

Umm...Bonafide ehh? Well I do own a SVT3, but as I've no experience with the other models, I can only give my biased, un-informed view.

 

Get the SVT3. It's a great easy to use amp. I'm not a gearhead by any means, but I've never played a sweeter amp. It's lightweight, built like a tank, and delivers enough power to get you through mosts gigs. (p.s read between the lines here: I've not played any really massive shows yet )

 

Cup

[getz out]

Originally posted by pouffe:

I want to get an Ampeg svt head. I've played through 4 of them and really liked 3 of them. Can anyone clue me in as to the differences between the models vintage or new?

As a former "classic" SVT owner, I'll give you some views.

 

The tube version is great (SVT Anniversary nowadays). 300 watts of TUBE power. All tube, all the time. If you want that classic, rock bass tone, pair this with a sealed cabinet and rock out. You're going to get one of two tones out of this beast: (1) crunch rock goodness or (2) super deep dub, motown tone.

 

That said, the head was heavy and not as versitile as I would have liked. I switched to tube preamp/solid-state power amps and ported cabinets.

 

I think the rest of the "SVT" line stacks up well with Carvin, SWR, Eden, etc. However, I think you'd be better off, for the price, with a Carvin. And if you want a nicer package, go with the Eden.

 

Just my toughts. You can't go "wrong" with a classic SVT head and cabinet combination. However, be ready to hire someone to carry it for your. It's a pisser.

 

Maury

[Bill C from Nashvegas]

Though I'm not an expert, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and here's my take:

 

Ampeg started making the SVT in 1969. The first version had some weird power tubes; a few years later they changed tube types and made a few minor circuit changes. But during the next decade or two Ampeg was going through ownership changes. As they changed hands, the models changed then changed again. A number of them were even built out of leftover parts after some Japanese bought them. These 1980's models were a hodgepodge of circuits and parts, from what I've read.

 

Eventually St Louis Music (yes the Crate people) bought Ampeg and saved the company. They eventually re-introduced the SVT but this was NOT identical to the 1970's models, despite the advertising claims. Sorta similar, but not the same. The Anniversary edition is basically the same amp as their regular Classic, but with a silver nameplate and I think a slightly different EQ.

 

The early 1970's vintage amps are considered by many to be the best. These were made in Linden NJ. Mid-70's models were made by Magnavox and are very good too.

 

For a better history read "Ampeg: The Story Behind the Sound"

[Banta]

I suppose I should chime in as I've owned 4 of the old SVTs and 2 of the new SVT-CLs.

 

First, I wouldn't recommend paying more for an old '70s SVT than a newer CL. The differences are basically that the old heads lacked a pre gain, so to get the tube crunch you had to crank them up. Typically if you play where you want the volume this is never going to be a problem. I do like the newer CL heads better, especially the user-friendly bias adjustment on the rear panel for the power tubes. They use (6)6550s in the power section, and properly biased these will last a couple of years before you need to retube. You should expect to pay as much as $200 for new tubes, but the last time I retubed one of my CLs it cost me $115. The older units are great if they haven't been abused, but you want to thoroughly check one out before buying it. Transformers are expensive to replace. The negatives to SVTs (both old & new) are the relative one-dimensional tonal aspects and the weight - my heads weigh around 90lbs each. But IMO they are unparalleled for ROCK, and that's all that matters to me.

 

My current SVT rigs are in my sig.

[pouffe]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm totally aware of the size and weight issues, but I'm willing to go there for the tone. I'm definitely looking for the "classic" all-tube monster. Has anyone ever tried it with a power brake or something similar to get the tone with less volume?

[73 P Bass]

I've never cared for Ampegs. Everytime I go shopping I always include them on the list, but they never make the cut.

For bass I much prefer a more modern sound (GK, SWR, Eden), dare I say a solidstate sound?

[getz out]

Originally posted by 74 P Bass:

I've never cared for Ampegs. Everytime I go shopping I always include them on the list, but they never make the cut.

For bass I much prefer a more modern sound (GK, SWR, Eden), dare I say a solidstate sound?

I concur. If you're playing live, and play where the bass is going through the house mains, unless you mic the speaker cab (read: NIGHTMARE), you're wasting the tone. Pre-gain volume is useless for that crunchy, tube goodness.

 

And if you're playing club where bass is not going through the mains, and you bring a 300 watt tube monster with a matching cab, you have a whole different set of issues.

 

Just my take. SVT and 8x10" is great for the arena rock. Most of the gigs people on this list are playing don't fit that bill.

 

Maury

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by getz76:

I concur. If you're playing live, and play where the bass is going through the house mains, unless you mic the speaker cab (read: NIGHTMARE), you're wasting the tone. Pre-gain volume is useless for that crunchy, tube goodness.

 

Why do you feel like miking the cabinet is a nightmare?

[Werewolf by Night]

pouffe-

 

I don't know if anyone makes a "powerbrake" type-device that will handle the output of an SVT! They're made with those damn guitarists and their wimpy 100-watt and under amps in mind. An SVT would fry the models I've used, and probably take some serious damage in the process. At the very least, you'd blow a fuse or two.

 

Maybe one of those expensive Palmer Speaker Simulators, I know they make a few different models, but that's about the extent of my knowledge on their line.

[getz out]

Originally posted by Dave Martin:

Originally posted by getz76:

I concur. If you're playing live, and play where the bass is going through the house mains, unless you mic the speaker cab (read: NIGHTMARE), you're wasting the tone. Pre-gain volume is useless for that crunchy, tube goodness.

 

Why do you feel like miking the cabinet is a nightmare?

I've always found that trying to mic a bass cab live presents a couple of issues, not the least of which is finding a house soundman willing to do it. Other problems involve getting a consistent, focused, and flat response. I've tried a couple of time with several different microphones, and I have yet to get a good sound using only a single mic. There are two reasons why a single mic presents a problem: (1) most modern cabinets are at least 2-way, meaning you would need at least two (one for each crossover point) and (2) most woofers produce a DISCERNIBLY different sound in the lower frequencies at distances. When playing live, it just seems like a lot of work to set up one mic on the tweeter, one close woofer mic, and one distant mic. Especially when a good preamp and DI can give you a consistent, good tone.

 

To summarize: NIGHTMARE = complex situation with many variables.

 

Just for your information, I'm low maintenance. The last gig I played, I plugged into the house rig, made sure the head's EQ was set flat, and told the soundman he could have his way with me through the mains.

 

Recording? Well, that's a different issue with a much more controlled environment. I've always had better results going direct, but I think that's because most engineers seem to be more comfortable in that situation.

 

Maury

[pouffe]

I'm also a sound engineer, and I've had great results playing through an SVT head into the 8x10 cab for my stage sound. Then sticking a 421 (I show up with my own) right up on the best sounding 10 in the cabinet. Bring that mic up at the board flat w/ no DI, if the system is adequate for the room and is tuned properly, it is exactly the sound i'm looking for. I agree with you, getz76, that woofers develop alot more at further distances, but i've found that I want more bass frequecies onstage than the mixer realy needs anyway. So the loss of bottom end with the close mic'ing is actually helpful. By the way, to listen to some of the music I've been working on and think will benefit from an SVT, check this out: www.stegorocks.com/hearband.htm

 

Thanks for all the discussion, it is very helpful.

 

Jason

[getz out]

Originally posted by pouffe:

I'm also a sound engineer, and I've had great results playing through an SVT head into the 8x10 cab for my stage sound. Then sticking a 421 (I show up with my own) right up on the best sounding 10 in the cabinet. Bring that mic up at the board flat w/ no DI, if the system is adequate for the room and is tuned properly, it is exactly the sound i'm looking for. I agree with you, getz76, that woofers develop alot more at further distances, but i've found that I want more bass frequecies onstage than the mixer realy needs anyway. So the loss of bottom end with the close mic'ing is actually helpful.

Interesting, that makes sense. That SVT cabinet is full-range on the 10" woofers, plus it's a sealed cabinet. It's an odd beast by today's standards, but that makes a lot of sense, especially with the bass roll off you find at the close mic'ing. I wonder what the effect would be on, say, an SWR Triad or Acme Low B, both of which are three-way designs with a ported cabinet. To get full range mic'ing, you would potentionally use 5 mics: (1) close woofer, (2) distance woofer, (3) midrange, (4) tweeter, and (5) port. I use less on most drum kits!

 

Maury

[chrono9000gi]

I've had 4 all-tube vintage SVTs. The first three were stolen at various times and locations. I wouldn't characterize them as crystal clear but they have a warmth, power, and roundness that I love. I used to run them through the standard Ampeg 8x10 bottom but I thought it sounded a little muddy. When that bottom got stolen I replaced it with a much cheaper Yamaha 6x10 cabinet that I actually thought sounded better. I used this setup as recently as last Thursday. Yes, they're heavy, but carrying takes a few minutes and then you have a whole gig of round warm power. I keep trying newer model solid state amps but I've been conistently disappointed and go back gratefully to an SVT.

 

-Steve

[pouffe]

How did the 6x10 sound better? What model #? Been thinking about an SWR 6x10 just for transport purposes, but I was wondering about the sound.

 

Jason

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by getz76:

[/qb]

To summarize: NIGHTMARE = complex situation with many variables.

 

Recording? Well, that's a different issue with a much more controlled environment. I've always had better results going direct, but I think that's because most engineers seem to be more comfortable in that situation.

Maury[/QB]

 

First of all, I suspect that you need to work with a better class of sound guy; On the live gigs I've done in the last 10 years, I've never had a sound guy complain about miking the amp. Off the top of my head, the amps haven't always been that good (That's part of the problem when the back line is provided), and in those cases, I've had no problems with a DI. And the DI in the Super Redhead is just fine. But when I've played good amps - Ampeg B15's, SVT's, and Hartke's, they've miked them with no complaint and mo problems

 

And ARE most modern cabinets 2 way? Are you talking about those nasty tweeters (which I always turn off or unplug) or 'normal' bass amps? I'm not disputing your assessment,; I just haven't seen that kind of cabinet in a few years (though Peavey made one with 2 10's and an 18", I think...)

[wraub]

Chiming in: I have played in several live situations where the amp was mic'ed. I agree that the willingness of the sound guy to do it is a variable, but the better ones are usually up for it.

 

The last round of gigs/recording I did was with a borrowed early 70's SVT, and some things were quickly apparent: Yes, it had good tone, and yes, it filled the room, and yes it looked cool. But it was also absurdly heavy to move to and from venues, as well as on to (and sometimes up to) the stage. Neither the head or the cab was, IMO, worth it's weight struggle.

My own rig, which currently resides out west, was a custom built 15" and a hartke 4x10, powered by an ancient Acoustic 370 head.

This head is a mighty thing, and has gobs of tone. It is also really heavy, but at around 40 lbs or so it looks light next to that Ampeg. Plus, solid state. so no tube worries or maintenance. This, plus the tone, makes it the better choice for me, as I like my maintenance to be low.

 

You say that a lot of modern solid state amps sound too bright/thin-maybe you should look around and try a few amps you had not thought of before. If you are considering at all getting an older SVT, it might be worth a look at non tube amps. A lot of the vintage solid state amps sound really good and tend to sell pretty cheaply, you can find some real bargains out there.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[music-man]

okay, if wraub can chime in with the acoustic, I'll put in a plug for a Mesa 400+. My dream tube head ... and I'm a SS guy.

 

Now I'll take my puny little lightweight transistors and skulk the hell on out of here ...

[getz out]

Originally posted by Dave Martin:

 

First of all, I suspect that you need to work with a better class of sound guy; On the live gigs I've done in the last 10 years, I've never had a sound guy complain about miking the amp. Off the top of my head, the amps haven't always been that good (That's part of the problem when the back line is provided), and in those cases, I've had no problems with a DI. And the DI in the Super Redhead is just fine. But when I've played good amps - Ampeg B15's, SVT's, and Hartke's, they've miked them with no complaint and mo problems

The gigs I'm doing (or right now, NOT DOING! Anyone know a decent, RELIABLE singer?) are in small clubs, all original material. Sets tend to last between 45 minutes to 1 hour and 15 minutes. When this is the case, there are usually 6 bands on stage any given night. Time is of the essence when the bands are changing over. The soundman is usually quite able, but I'm not going to potentially compromise my sound in the MAINS just for the sake of my STAGE/MONITOR sound. I'm still of the belief that the most important sound is the one that the audience is hearing, which is usually the mains. I try to empower the soundman to do his job, to the best of his ability. Do I doubt that they would mic my cabinet if I asked? Well, maybe some. But even so, I'm still not going to ask. I'm sure they're able. But why put that extra variable out there that might compromise the sound from the mains? Even with some of the uglier bass backlines in the Village, the sound out of the mains is great. The soundman is there, night after night, and knows how to get a good sound out of the beast.

 

Recording is a different situation. I'm still inclined to defer to the engineer in that case, though.

 

Also, I like the sound of a DI. I just want to hear my bass, not my bass through a cabinet. Flat response. That could also explain my main rig: Demeter Pre -> Stewart Amp -> Acme Cab(s). It doesn't get much more transparent than that. Hell, I even leave the EQ flat on both my Demeter and my bass electronics! Okay, I occassionaly cut the treble, but rarely.

 

Originally posted by Dave Martin:

 

And ARE most modern cabinets 2 way? Are you talking about those nasty tweeters (which I always turn off or unplug) or 'normal' bass amps? I'm not disputing your assessment,; I just haven't seen that kind of cabinet in a few years (though Peavey made one with 2 10's and an 18", I think...)

Yes, those nasty tweeters. Believe it or not, some of us actually like the noise above 1 kHz. Hell, I even play with roundwounds. To boot, I even change those roundwounds regularly. They're stainless steel. It's a 5-string bass. Traditionalists, please commence breathing exercises!

 

Maury