Bring On Da Fonk (lessons)

[davebrownbass]

In a twist of the previous thread (which has gotten quite twisted, itself) I thought I'd start a thread dealing with the characteristics of funk.

 

Here's the way it works. Select a tune that is real funk...and describe the characteristics, especially the bass characteristics, that make it funky.

 

Now, it's really helpful if the reader listens along to the track, which will involve trips to the music store (since I don't believe in downloading!!!)

 

My tune for this post is: Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin) by Sly and the Family Stone. Put it in, spin it and listen for:

 

1. Bass line strongly emphasises Beat One, every time around.

 

2. As a corollary, bass line doesn't play on 4.

 

3. Bass line alternates measure by measure...first measure a question, second an answer.

 

4. Drum beats 4 equal beats of time. Guitar chords work along with the bass. LIsten carefully to the interplay during the intro.

 

This pattern NEVER changes during the entire song..only very subtle variations, and 4 bar breaks.

 

Bass Tone: Muddy, old strings, action sounds high!. It has some slap/pop in it, but YOU NEVER NOTICE THE SLAPPING!!! This is VITAL....

 

Funk isn't about slapping per se. Slapping is used in funk, as are open strings, strumming, scratching, effects, synth bass...lots of stuff.

 

Bass line isn't fast...and there is no showing off. Technique isn't king, but rhythm absolutely is.

 

Listen to this song...doesn't it sound like a bunch of guys singing around a 55 gallon drum turned into a barbecue...big slabs of ribs, beer spilling every where...fat chicken catching on fire, enormous sausages of questionable meat. Dancing, having a good time, making time with the girls. Potato salad puddling in chairs, big fat bottoms squishing into the chairs and the salad.

 

Anyway, take another funk song; are there characteristics in it that are similiar? Take a turn.

[Slaerty]

Dave you truly are an amazing person. I particularly liked the potato salad bit... : )

[Tom Capasso]

DBB,

 

Thanks - now I have to get this tune and go through it. It's a great lesson for me because I'm light on the funk.

 

I look forward to other's posting.

 

Thanks for a great idea

 

Tom

[music-man]

Annoying Person (uh-noi-yng pr-sun)

 

1. thinks funk=slap.

2. thinks slap=Flea.

3. thinks funk=Flea.

[alexclaber]

OK, here goes:

 

My tune is Tippi-Toes by The Meters, a great old greasy New Orleans funk tune...

 

1. Very rhythmic guitar riff that approaches the downbeat with a stuttering 16th note triplet and then funkily chicken-picks swung 16ths for the rest of the bar.

 

2. Greasy, behind the beat melodic bass riff then comes in which takes similar approach to guitar riff by starting on the last 8th of the bar with an approach note and then lays hard into the root on the one.

 

3. Hammond organ then kicks in with descending chords on the last three quarter notes of the bar.

 

4. Drums kick in with the snare drum on the last 16th and then the drum beat is a simple rock beat but sat way back in the groove with just the odd very subtle swung 16th note skip on the hihat to give it that funky bounce.

 

Aargh!!! I can't remember what happens after the first verse! My mind has gone blank!

 

Anyway, forget the rest of the tune because it's pretty damn repetitive (and I can't remember what exactly happens (am I embarrased!)) but what a groove, I could listen to The Meters play this all day long.

 

Again, note that there really is no flashiness in the playing, it's all about working as a team to produce the grease - even Ziggy's (the drummer) playing a really 'straight' part on this tune yet it's still funky as hell.

 

Alex

 

P.S. I'll listen to the tune tonight and fill y'all in on what happens next...

[The Bear Jew]

"Flashlight" By P-Funk.

Lead Vocal: George Clinton

Sax Solo: Darryl Dixon

Bass Synth, Synth: Bernie Worrell

Guitar: Catfish Collins

Drums: Bootsy Collins

 

First off... this groove is just TIGHT. It's a long-ass song, and when you know you're gonna be playing the same groove for 8 minutes (or up to 20 minutes in live situations), a smart player approaches a song like this differently than a 3-minute pop ditty. It's about stamina. You KNOW you're gonna be sweating and drippy after this one. It's for the dancers. It's for the partiers. It's the kind of jam that keeps going because nobody wants it to stop.

 

"Flashlight" is an unstoppable engine that chugs along without pretensions. The synth bass line is really simple, and the beauty of it lies in this simplicity. It scarcely changes at all in the entire 8-minute song, and yet it never really gets old. Ditto the guitar and drum parts... the real changes happen in the vocals, synth and sax elements of the song. It's basically a classic example of sonic funk "painting" -- the vocals, horns and synth introduce variations on their general themes while the guitar, bass and drums keep asses wiggling down below.

 

There's no bass guitar at all on this one... just bass synth. And Bootsy plays DRUMS here.

 

Da da da-DEE da da da dada da daaaaaa

[...]

MMmmmm... funk. My collection 'o funk is mighty, as I love this particular idiom of music so much.

 

How about today we discuss the wonder which is "Squib Cakes" by Tower of Power (from the album 'Back to Oakland'). Tower of Power is one of my favorite funk/soul bands of all time (hence the name 'Bumpcity' fer gaads sake).

 

Intro:

 

4 bar drum groove played by David Garibaldi. You know right away that this tune means business. Colossally funky drum beat and that fill that leads into the head... ouch. Funky as he wanna be.

 

Head:

 

Ahh yeah. The bass (Rocco) and bari sax (Doc Kupka) play the main theme in unison for the first half of the head. This super-bad lick is based on a F mixolydian scale. It's very simple, based on root, octave, seventh, sixth, and fifth scale degrees. The only other thing going on this first time through is some little guitar noodles; provided by Bruce Conte). Simplicity in funk is often the secret to, well, making it funky. The second half of the head has the rest of the band coming in as they play a repeated pattern over a decending chord pattern (Eb, D, Db) before the super-fly 1-bar organ fill (Chester Thompson) which brings us back to the top of the head.

 

Second time through the head, the keyboard provides the little noodly bits instead of the guitar. The second half of the head is the same as it was previously, however they move to a C13 (may be a C7, I can't remember for sure off the top of my head) which leads into the next section of the tune.

 

I guess this bit would be the glue that holds the head and the solo section together. It sets up the chord changes which become the solo section (1 bar of C-9, 1 bar of F13). Between what Garibaldi is doing on the drums and the soli horn/rhythm section line, the '1' is very difficult to place in this part. However, it doesn't feel wierd. The groove stays huge and as long as you don't sit there trying to figure out where in the hell the bar lines are, nothing seems amiss. Tasty! This section is a mere 8 bars long, leading up to a big 'ol horn "ka-pow!!!" which starts the solo section.

 

Solo section:

 

Guitar (Conte)

Flugelhorn (Mic Gillette, although it could have been Greg Adams... I can't recall who did this solo for sure)

Tenor sax (Lenny-mutha-funkin-Pickett)

Keys (Chester Thompson)

 

The guitar solo give us the basic form that the next two solos will follow. 32 bars long, the entire band starts easy and then builds to another big horn fall off. Mix, repeat. Every solo starts simple and builds to a frenzy. Dynamics are cool! The start of the flugel solo is exceptionally hip, as the band drops to a half time feel and basically vamps on the C-9 chord. After the flugel, Lenny Pickett gives a quick lesson on how to compeltely and utterly be the ultimate tenor saxomaphone bad-ass. During these solos, Rocco generally will start with a simple idea and gradually add more syncopation and blurring 16th notes as the rest of the band builds. Very cool. Most of the ideas he does are based loosely on root-three-five and chromatic runs into the next chord root. When things really get cookin, he will often use the two of the F13 chord (so G, duh. ) as the leading note into the C-9 chord. The two can be so funky when used properly.

 

A quick romp through the only words in the song follows, a simple group vocal singing "squib cakes" 4 times. Then the keyboard solo starts. At this point, Rocco totally drops out and Chester plays keyboard bass whilst he burns it down. This is an interesting constrast between Rocco's lines. Chester has a few ideas that he winds up playing over and over again, with very few variations on the themes that he sets up. His bass lines are a lot more Parliament-esque in this sense where Rocco will have a basic idea and constantly noodle about with it.

 

As the monstrous keyboard solo comes to an end, Rocco re-enters during the bridge section. He doubles the pattern that Chester Thompson is doing until they move into the same chromatic climb down that occurs at the end of the head (Eb, D, Db). This leads into another 1 bar keyboard fill and back to the top of the tune to re-state the head.

 

Out section

 

The head is re-stated, this time with no repeat. Previously, where the horn line built to a big fall-off to start the solos, the song abruptly ends.

 

Bass notes

 

Rocco don't do no slap. This song is a fingerstyle funk 16th note tour de force. As previously mentioned, the over all song structure and chord changes are very simple. The solo section changes (all 2 chords!!) really lend themselves to stretching out and playing some busy-ass parts. The mean drum groove that Garibaldi is laying down helps tremendously in this respect as well. Pay a lot of attention to how Rocco and Garibaldi interact throughout the song, especially in the solo section. There are ideas in here that can be used copiously in any 16th note groove. I highly suggest studying this song and 'leveraging' (stealing) ideas from it.

 

This has been Funk 101, with professor B.

[davebrownbass]

Went out today and bought the Meters and Parliment tunes.

 

Couple of characteristics I notice in common:

 

1. Weird sounding rhythm instruments. The use of "shout" choruses. Drums tend to play 4 equal beats.

 

2. Scale choices: The Meters use a Mixolydian mode, the Parliment song uses the Blues scale. The flatted 7th is predominant in my example as well as these two. In addition, much of the harmonic motion is defined by scalar approaches rather than jumps.

 

3. Leading to the one. In the Meters, the bass line actually kinda leads to the 2, but there is an open fourth beat, and pickup into beat one. Flashlight plays an entire measure of eighth notes leading to a one...then open 2 and 3, then a 3 note (four note, if you count the ghost) pickup into the next bar.

 

4. Repetitive bass line, very little variation. Open space is used to augment the line. In my example, the alternating, question/answer bass line is called "call and response." There is a real good example of this funk style bass line in the Parliment "Chocolate City." Another, more famous example, is "Another One Bites the Dust" by Queen.

 

Good work guys...let's keep it coming.

 

My next one might be Rufus, "Tell me Something Good." That one breaks many of these trends in the verse, but follows them in the chorus.

[_Sweet Willie_]

I just wanted to bump this thread. I think it's a good one and hope it develops more. I don't want to see it get lost.

 

I want to re-listen to a couple of my favorite James Brown tunes, and then I'll post something about one of them. But here's a teaser -- hit the one hard!

[Tom Capasso]

I listened to "Thank You" (which I knew, but wanted to apply DBB's analysis) and Squib Cakes (which I'd never heard, and wanted to use professor B's teachings). Of course both these guys know their stuff, so they provided helpful guides. As a marginally funky person, I need to learn this stuff. The term that has been used less than I expected was "syncopation". A few points...

 

Thank You

DBB referred to what was going on as "call and answer". I always applied that term to more solo-style passages. To me it just sounded like the bass (and the guitar) had a two-bar phrase (but which one of us is a computer guy and which is a music teacher?).

The bass, guitar, and horns have the syncopated parts. I never thought of the vocals in this song as part of the funk, but they are. They are at times syncopated, and at times just grunts and noises. I was surprised by how "straight" the drums are. They provide a great anchor.

DBB mentioned that you don't notice the slap. I think he's right in stating how "right" the part is. But the Moog has something to do with it too...

 

Squib Cakes

Yeah, the drums in this tune are funky !! Very interesting the way the bass follows the Bari sax, and then adds a few descending notes during the Head. So often it sounds like (sorry if I got this wrong) the bass is playing 3 8th notes at the beginning of the bar. Of course he changes the pattern for the different solo sections. I like how the bass parts are quick, but not flying wild. Tres cool.

Yes Bump, the contrast in bass parts when the organ covers is interesting. Also, I am not a jazz or fusion person (too much noodling), but that tenor solo is complete!!

 

So far, it sounds like "driving beat + syncopation = funk".

 

I'll work on the other suggestions soon. I own the James Brown Greatest Hits, so I'll start giving that a spin.

 

Tom

[GBF]

i agree, this is a really nice thread. i think we should try and do the same thing with other styles such as jazz and rock.

[davebrownbass]

This 2 bar alternating bass pattern is very common...to the point of being one signal that funk is ensuing!

 

For example, the aforementioned "Tell me Something Good" has an alternating pattern in the chorus only...and that has something to do with the way the chorus "opens up."

 

But Jaco did the same thing in "Come On, Come Over" where the question/answer works in the verse, and the 16th notes come in the chorus.

 

I've listened dozens of time to the Parliment album...for whom I am now an unabashed fan. I think the cut "P-Funk (I Want to Get Funked up)" is incredibly funky. I also hear this stuff in "Chocolate City."

 

What about Boz Skaggs "Lowdown?" as a funk chart? If it is, it is really cleaned up a bit.

 

Willie, I'm listening to all the inventive ways guys emphasize that ONE. A lot of funk seems to avoid playing on beat 4, but using the 16th after beat four to lead into the one. A lot of guys play one measure of eighth notes, plus the one, then leave a measure empty.

 

BTW: That empty measure seems to be common in funk....during that time, all kinds of guys take turns funking up the empty space..."Flashlight" is a great example.

 

Harmony...it also seems common to hear flatted seventh to root, whether it is blues scale, mix mode or other scale. I also hear a lot of minor 3/major 3 alterations mixed in there.

[Jode]

One. The One. THE One. Hit one HARD. Nearly every funk tune ever written, if not all of them, has the entire rhythm section (drums, bass, guitar, keys, and percussion) landing HARD on one, with a little bit of three bumped by the bassist and drummer. Two and four are all unadorned backbeat, and they belong solely to the drummer. Other instruments don't lean on two and four except as accents, and only to make a point.

 

I might not know what funk IS, but I know what funk AIN'T. Funky does NOT have to mean busy! Listen to "Chameleon" by the Headhunters and tell me it is not the essence of funk, in its groovy simplicity. If you can find a drummer who can play that song and play it right, as deep and slow as that funk is, you have found a Funky Drummer.

 

And funky definitely does not have to mean slap. How much did Jaco slap, and how funky was he? How much does Verdine White slap in Earth, Wind, and Fire? How much does Rocco Prestia slap in Tower of Power?

[DigiVoices]

Originally posted by Jode:

Listen to "Chameleon" by the Headhunters and tell me it is not the essence of funk, in its groovy simplicity.

I'll second that, I could put that song on repeat and let it play all night. The keyboard line in the beginning gets my head bobbing and the guitar, horns, keys all layering over the bottom of the grove...finding its way into trancy jazz territory and then back to the original beginning line.

 

AAHHHH!!! that song is so &*%$ing cool!

[davebrownbass]

Perhaps this topic is useful to revisit.

[Gruuve]

Great thread!

 

I was thinking about two that I'm very familiar with in terms of this discussion: Play That Funky Music (Wild Cherry) and Fire (Ohio Players). Both of these seem to fit the characteristics outlined here, particularly strongly nailing the 1 beat, less accent on the 3 beat, and staying off the 2 and 4 beats. They are both pretty simple bass lines.

 

Interesting...I'll have to give these two a listen in terms of where the bass notes fall relative to the true beat (ie. in front of, right on, or behind).

 

Dave

[Edendude]

Great thread...

 

I just started working with a funk band, after leaving my blues band of three years.

 

I'm currently up to my eyeballs in learning a three set funk repertoire.

 

The interesting thing for me is the repertoire includes the funkiest variants of other genres, too. We have several Reggae tunes, some soul, and R&B, mixed in with straight-up funk material like Groove Collective, Galactic, Jamiroquai, James Brown, etc.

 

The common theme I see is that the bass player drives the bus, and the drummer is the engine. And in a much more obvious way than any other genre, or group of genres I have played in the past.

 

Oh and I have a recommendation in the way of a modern funk CD I just discovered and really kinda dig...

 

Jamiroquai's 'Funk Odyssey'.

[Rick Hoffman]

Hello everyone

I'm mainly a heavy metal bass player now, as my new band is all about old school metal...but I still like to bring the funk.

 

The song I would like to submit today is one of my funk favorites by the Brothers Johnson, entitled, " Get the Funk Out Mah Face"

 

The intro is incredible, with the auto-wah and how he's accenting those beats, its almost like he's alternating between which beats he comes down on, but always landing on the "1".

 

And then the verse riff is so buttery funky it makes me wanna jump up and grab a bass everytime I hear it.

 

Check out this song if you haven't heard it-it took me a few days to get the intro by ear and play it properly on the right beats. Very cool song.

[Jorg]

what about badcat Paul Jackson. He is definitely funky but playing around with the one like nobody can??

[Jimbroni]

Thanks for digging this out. I missed it the first time around. That first post has me wishin for spring so I can pull out the grill. Cook up some ribs and potato salad. Damn I'm hungry.

 

I wanted to comment on the Meter's. They're one of my favorites, and have probably influenced me more than any other band I can think of. One additional thing about Tippi Toes is George has alot of room. This is because Leo is the KING of single note guitar playing. He lets George do his job, holding the lower degrees of the scale, while Leo focus's on the high end with single notes and two note partials. This allows some flexibility in their music allowing them to travel quite a bit within one key signature, rather than just laying it all out in one full range chord. A sense of movement is essential in Funk and it sometimes can be difficult to accomplish that if you have a guitarist who insists on playing full range chords.

[daofktr]

thank you, sir dave!!!

there was a posting recently...last week, i think, from someone looking for a bass player for a nawlins band...this is helping me dare to audi for it.

i don't slap, never have, prolly never will, but this band seems to like it some. now i have ammo to defend my not slapping...

dunno if i'll get the audi, but now i'm a lot more comfy in my own skin, not worrying about my friggin' thumb.

[davio]

This is awesome. Thanks for bumping it back up...I have alot to listen to and listen for. This is a great approach to discovering more about the music I've grown to love even though I'm barely up to my ankles while it seems you all know some of these tunes like you know your names and many are from funk bands I've never even heard of.

[bc_dup1]

Hmm. Forgive me - I'm about do exactly what I'm going to say I wish other people hadn't done. This is a great thread idea whose original purpose has got lost in the stream of congratulations about what a great thread idea it is!!

 

Any chance we could get back to the spirit of Dave's brilliant original post, ie an analysis of why your favourite funk tracks work rhythmically in terms of bass lines, drum parts, interplay between the two etc?

[Sir Ethelred Hedgerow-Hedg]

Hey, great thread guys. It has really re-energised my interest in all things funky. I wonders if anyone could give me a hand by recomending some good albums. I think Herbie Hancocks 'Headhunters' (especialy Chameleon) is the best thing ever made and I also love The Meters. But now I'm stuck, where do I go from here? Any bands/albums you can name-drop would be cool. Cheers

[Edendude]

It's not old school, but it's definitely funky...

 

Jamiroquai...'Funk Odyssey'.

 

Victor Wooten...'Live In America'

[73 P Bass]

Originally posted by They Very Rvd. Phil Grundy:

Hey, great thread guys. It has really re-energised my interest in all things funky. I wonders if anyone could give me a hand by recomending some good albums. I think Herbie Hancocks 'Headhunters' (especialy Chameleon) is the best thing ever made and I also love The Meters. But now I'm stuck, where do I go from here? Any bands/albums you can name-drop would be cool. Cheers

Look here: http://www.musicplayer.com//ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/5/t/011132.html

[Gruuve]

Hey folks:

 

OK, I've posted an MP3 of Infectious Grooves "Stop Funk'n With My Head" because I think this is probably unlikely to be in most folks collections. (I could very well be wrong!)

 

NOTE: In support of our fellow musicians, if you listen to this song and like it well enough that you'd like to keep a copy of the MP3, I gracefully ask that you buy a copy of the CD. We don't want to take money out of the pockets of our fellow musicians any more than you'd want someone to take money out of your pocket!

 

http://www.ipass.net/davesisk/music/other/

 

I think this song is incredibly funky (but then that does depend on your definition of "funky"), but it achieves that by breaking some of the rules we've talked about. He (Robert Trujillo in this case) hits the 1 hard each time. Beyond that, it's a fairly busy slap lick for the verses, but lots of space for the choruses. He alternates syncopated sixteenths with sustained half notes or walking eighth notes quite extensively on the verse, and that IMO is where much of the groove comes from on the verses. I really like his approach to this song...the busy syncopated then non-busy sustained stuff on the verse builds contrast, and that's something I generally try to do in my own music.

 

Anyway, I'm really curious to hear some thoughts on this song versus what we've defined as the "old school" approach, so fire away you guys!

 

Dave

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

I think this song is incredibly funky (but then that does depend on your definition of "funky"), but it achieves that by breaking some of the rules we've talked about.

Hmmm... It doesn't sound like its breaking any rules to me - just sounds like pretty full-on 80s funk rock! I guess the bassline is playing two parts, the busy slap acting more like another funk guitar or hi-hat part whilst the low slow notes add some grease and keep things from getting too hectic. Not dissimilar to Larry Graham's greasy fat slap. Reminds me of early Chili Peppers - and likewise I think it would sound a ton funkier without the 80s production, particular the OTT drum sound.

 

Which Infectious Grooves album is this from?

 

Alex

[Gruuve]

Originally posted by C. Alexander Claber:

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

I think this song is incredibly funky (but then that does depend on your definition of "funky"), but it achieves that by breaking some of the rules we've talked about.

Hmmm... It doesn't sound like its breaking any rules to me - just sounds like pretty full-on 80s funk rock! I guess the bassline is playing two parts, the busy slap acting more like another funk guitar or hi-hat part whilst the low slow notes add some grease and keep things from getting too hectic. Not dissimilar to Larry Graham's greasy fat slap. Reminds me of early Chili Peppers - and likewise I think it would sound a ton funkier without the 80s production, particular the OTT drum sound.

 

Which Infectious Grooves album is this from?

 

Alex

Hey Alex:

 

It's from "The Plague That Makes Your Booty Move". Actually, based on the earlier discussions, I'd say there are a few "rules" it breaks:

 

1) It's quite busy in the verse.

2) It's a very bright modern slap tone, rather than the vintage old school tone.

3) He doesn't lay off the 2 and 4 where the backbeats are...he's right there on top of them (in the verse only, I mean).

4) It's slapped rather than finger-picked.

 

This said, I'm not convinced there are any "rules" period where music is concerned...just MHO. Even if there are rules (or maybe more accurately put: "historical characteristics"), then part of creativity is figuring out how to do something different from those historical characteristics that achieves a similar end goal. What I'm specifically refering to is that, for instance, non-busy finger-picked song with a vintage tone = funky....busy, slapped part with bright, modern tone = funky. There's multiple ways to get to a certain end characteristic.

 

Anyway, I'm so hooked on this song, I can't stop listening to it...

 

Dave

[Gruuve]

Bumpity Bump Bump. Great thread...any more songs to analyze?

 

Dave