Do you "rake"?

[Alan Dalton]

Do you "rake" your picking fingers to pick descending strings with the same finger?

 

I did this for years but I found my timing was inconsistent, because I played raked notes faster than other notes. I did it because my bass teacher at the time told me to do it. After reading columns by Adam Nitti in Bass Player magazine and Titus Dale on the Warwick site, I changed my style to strictly alternate and never rake. It took a while but I feel I play with better timing now. A friend of mine is a classically trained upright bassist and has been taught not to rake.

 

On the other hand, Glenn Letsch in Bass Player magazine said that raking is necessary and that the groove lives in the rake. I believe Bunny Brunel agrees.

 

There's been discussion here before, but I reckon a poll could provide an interesting answer...

[SteveC]

I think there are times when "raking' is a good technique to use. I generally alternate fingers. I find I am more consistent. As with most things, it is a good technique to know, but maybe not something you'll use all the time.

[g.]

It takes a lot of time to rake my yard because it's really big. That kind of screws up my bass sched. But it has to be done.

 

...I don't think raking is the issue. Accuracy/control is.

 

---

Oops, clicked too soon.

 

No doubt some of the classic grooves have rake induced timing shifts that make them kind of swing, in the same manner that people play swing time with different percentages on each side of the eigths/triplets division, and puch the beat in some places and pull back in others. Ferinstance, drummers playing beats 2 and 4 a couple of microseconds late sound relaxed - while ones who play them a few microseconds early seem nervous or energetic, depending on how big the shift is.

 

Though small timing shifts from raking may have been part of some grooves, they are not essential to all types of grooving.

 

Groovy.

[_Sweet Willie_]

GB,

 

Have you tried a leaf blower?

 

Okay for the lawn, hell on the bass.

[Jason Hoyt]

Salma Hayek never did it for me... I was always more into Catherine Zeta-Jones... Raking is why you have kids. So you don't have to...

[BenLoy]

You should be able to do both.

[Jason Hoyt]

Well, yeah, but once they get the idea you should be able to let the little munchkins go out and EARN that allowance...

[dcr]

There are some ghost-note grooves that seem, imho, to rely on raking. Take the standard 8/ghost-5/1 kind of riff; not sure strict alternating would be a lot of help there.

[jeremy c]

Raking is essential for jazz triplets and skips.

Alternating will give you clean playing.

 

Pick whatever you think sounds the best.

 

Have enough technique so that you can.

[Jason Hoyt]

Originally posted by Ashley Judd:

Do I do it for you, big boy?

...not really into the recessive blond gene...

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[Alan Dalton]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

Raking is essential for jazz triplets and skips.

Excuse my ignorance, Jeremy, but what do you mean by "skips"? I'm not familiar with the term.

[ibescotty]

Being self taught I have always alternated because I thought that was how your supposed to do it. Raking looks like an interesting technique to pick up though. I might play around with that one.

 

---> Where's that woodshed at....

[KikkyMonk]

Being self taught I raked for a long time. Only recently did I plop down in front of the TV and played open strings in various sequences till my muscle memory took over

 

Its amazing what you can do without even using your mind.

 

Ive been trying hard to "not rake" as I thought that was the official thing to do but this thread might have me feeling better about doing it

 

I do agree that timing CAN suffer so you have to be aware of it.

 

Dave

[jeremy c]

By skips I mean the sixteenth note in the figures which are written as a dotted eighth note and a sixteenth note. It's really closer to a triplet.

 

Sometimes these are regular notes, sometimes they are ghost notes.

[ikestr]

Question: What is +/- sq.root(4 rake). Answer at bottom.

 

Here are two bass players that did rake and made it sound good:

 

Jaco; Come On Come Over, Portrait of Tracy

 

Rocco; What Is Hip?

 

Yes, I do rake when appropriate. I use whatever technique will accomplish the job best. Sometimes I rake and sometimes I dont. It just depends on the song.

 

For instance, Come On Come Over cannot be played correctly without raking, there is no possible way to get those ghost notes in there without raking. On the other hand, What Is Hip? could be played without raking but I havent been able to get my fingers to play that root-seventh part without raking...its a damned fast 16th pattern.

 

Answer: To rake or not to rake...

 

Just my .02 worth.

 

ikestr

[g.]

Good examples, ikestr and J. I was checking out some Deep Purple songs for this gig I'm going to be subbing on tommorrow night and was hearing more ghosted and 8-7/5/1 raking with some percussive ghosts than I had noticed when just casually hearing them on the radio or whatever.

 

It's funny how a playback system, and the recording methods and rigs used can affect how much of that is obvious and how much of it can get obscured - some, you just have to mess around with before it looks like that's the way to do it.

 

It seems pretty obvious in a lot of funk because of the cool rhythmic displacement aka groove that comes with it. In jazz with its triplets-eights/sixteenths swing (I love the way some sax players and drummers play with that, going from 55/45% to 70/30 or so) it seems a natural inheritance from the big guy standup.

[Dan South]

For years, I never raked, always alternated. I read in articles and books by Steve Bailey and others that alternating is better, more accurate.

 

Then I got into Jamerson and picked up some of his raking tricks. Now I'm hopelessly confused.

[surfmonkey]

Great thread, I've been wondering the same thing since reading that Bass Player article. On a side note, I always thought raking was when you played 3 or more strings with the same finger.

 

I always play descending passages by using the same finger for the last note on the higher string, to pluck the first not3e on the lower string (confused?). I think it makes sense because it is an economy of motion. I've practiced both methods, and I can't tell any difference in timing or tone, so I really don't see a reason to change. Does anyone have any life altering stories as a result of changing to strict alternation?

[chewstermaniac]

your supposed to use more than one finger?

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by chewstermaniac:

your supposed to use more than one finger?

No fingers -- just a pick.

[chewstermaniac]

No fingers -- just a pick.

 

Hey man, I ain't go no 'fro!

[JDL]

Yeah, raking messes up the timing, I can never get on beat when I rake, wonder why?

 

JDL-wwjd?

[Hepnurecords]

I'm not sure what the problem here is with raking and timing.

 

It's just another way to get the string moving.

 

If you aren't completely wrapped around the technique then, yes, it will mess things up. But the same can be said for slapping or playing with a pick.... Y'know?

 

Anyone coming from an acoustic POV certainly understands the benefits, drops and such. On either instrument it's just another color at your disposal. Do it or don't but please don't try to say it doesn't work. It does. Just not the approach for everything.

[Dan South]

Upright players seems to do fine with raking and (mostly) one finger right hand technique. Then again, there are monsters like NHOP who plays with three.

[Mike H.]

Kudos to Alan for being on the Dark Side of beers with a Guiness avatar!

 

I've raked for years. I will occasionally pluck with my other finger, but only when two or more notes are on a single string.

[Cup]

Forgive the ignorance, but how exactly do I rake? I'm not sure if I do or not as I don't know what everyone's talking about! Saying that I could rake without knowing it (tho' I very much doubt it)

 

CupMcMali...this monkey's gone to heaven