1x12 cabinets

[Ben]

I'm looking for a 1x12” cabinet to use for practices and small gigs. I will use it with my GK1001RB, which IMHO has a nice clean sound. The potential exists to get a second 1x12 cab and use the pair for louder gigs, instead of my big heavy 4x10. I play a 5 string, so low B is important (well, low C gets used once in a while and low D quite a bit).

 

Ed Friedland, whose opinion I greatly respect, likes the Bergantino HT-112, and runs a pair of them when needed. Bob Gollihur, whose opinion I also respect, likes the Euphonic Audio CxL112. Other contenders include the Epifani T-112 and Aguilar GS112. (I must say the Aguilar is tempting – I can get two of them for a bit more than one EA.)

 

Anybody out there using these cabs? Comments? Thanks!

[humabass]

I bought a Bergantino 112 based on what I read here from Ed. I've never played any other high end 112's but have fallen in love with the Bergantino. I'm very tempted to sell my Epifani 310 and get another one,just like ED! I turn 43 next week and have a bad knee and the thought of being able to bring two small cabinets that sound HUGE to gigs is exciting! Gee,and my first real amp was TWO SVT heads and 4 410 cabinets!

[J.T.]

I haven't played an Epifani yet and I haven't made it to the Aguilar dealer in my area. However, I have played the Bergantino and it's phenomenal. It handles a HUGE amount of power and puts out about the same or more volume than many 2x10's (high end, not crappy ones). It's LOUD and very clear. I really had to push to make it fart.

[Wickerman]

Carvin makes some nice ones but they're more for a low end, affordable solution. It sounds like you're looking for a higher end cab though... You might want to check into just making one. It's not hard at all and you can get a top of the line speaker lots cheaper than the whole cab.

[Ben]

Thanks, guys. Yeah, I am looking high end.

 

Wickerman, I have built a number of cabinets in my time. From what I can tell, three out of four of these cabs use Eminence woofers (the other looks like a P.Audio "Blue Monster"). But I don't think any of them use the standard Eminence line - nothing about kevlar cones in the retail-to-consumer stuff, for example. So I think Mr. Bergantino and Epifani et. al. have drivers that are customized to their needs.

 

At retail prices, an Eminence Omega Pro 600 12" is about $220 - add in another $80 for a decent tweeter and crossover, and another $80 for wood, carpet, terminals, handles, etc. and you've got $380, more than the Aguilar goes for. Makes me think twice about doing it myself.

 

[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Ben ]

[g.]

Hmmm, I'll have to check out the Eminence Pro series on the site concerning Kevlar cones in any of the models. But it seems to me that they make at least one 12" model that looked pretty good for power handling, and modeled well for low end.

 

Yeah, all the companies do the OEM thing with Eminence, but I've gotten a few Thiele-Small sheets on some of the drivers and they aren't that different from the Eminence-branded variants. I think a lot of times it's been a little tuning to get parameters for a particular box, or getting 4-ohm versions, and sometimes for a lower f3 -- which is the one that would impact a 5+ bassist the most.

 

The word I've heard on the Aguilar 12 is that it farts if you even moderately whack the B string, even when no additive EQ is being applied. So, be aware if not beware.

 

<-- greenboy ---<<<<   was thinking about building a 212 bottom cab

[Ben]

Greenboy, the other 12" Eminence that looks promising to me is the Delta 12LF. It has the bigger xmax, like the Omega Pro, but is a stamped frame rather than cast. I'm not that big a snob about cast frames vs. stamped frames, but once in a great while a magnet comes unglued and falls off a stamped frame.

 

The box size for a QB3 alignment is about 2.7cf, about what the Bergantion and Epifani cabs are, and the rating is 300watts, which also checks out. That's the closest I can see - still no kevlar. The Delta 1LF retails for $100, so you could build a decent 1x12 for under $300.

 

There's always the other end to consider, though, someday I might want to sell it. I suspect Bergantino cabs will keep decent resale value, but home-mades have almost no value, in my experience.

[Tom Capasso]

I'm heading to the store this weekend with 1x12 Berg in my sights. I'll be listening to a few others - I'm interested to see how they sound. Weight is definitely a factor, and Bergies are easy on your back.

 

Resale - hmmm...hadn't thought about that. I don't buy equipment often, and I don't have experience in resale (for music or cars or anything really). I think your assessment about resale is correct, but if I decided that building would be right for me, I'd never consider resale. I'd just keep the thing forever and find some application for it.

 

Tom

[g.]

Ben: the other 12" Eminence that looks promising to me is the Delta 12LF. It has the bigger xmax, like the Omega Pro, but is a stamped frame rather than cast. I'm not that big a snob about cast frames vs. stamped frames, but once in a great while a magnet comes unglued and falls off a stamped frame.

 

Yeah, in this power category I wouldn't be too worried about misalignment bends either.

 

The box size for a QB3 alignment is about 2.7cf, about what the Bergantion and Epifani cabs are, and the rating is 300watts, which also checks out. That's the closest I can see - still no kevlar. The Delta 1LF retails for $100, so you could build a decent 1x12 for under $300.

 

Yeah, the near-correspondence of specs is often a misleading coincidence anyway. But the plot for that speaker at 2.7 cubic feet looks good! I compared it against some other Eminence 12" and the two Carvin 12" I have specs for; in a single-woofer system for a 4-string player it really looks right. Actually it looks[/] nice for a 5-string player. But I notice they say "Usable Frequency Range: 45Hz - 3kHz" which makes me think you might want to have a good low-pass filter or cut EQ below 45 to keep it from over-excursion.

 

Looks like a winner though, Ben!

 

There's always the other end to consider, though, someday I might want to sell it. I suspect Bergantino cabs will keep decent resale value, but home-mades have almost no value, in my experience.

 

Well, I see Bass Northwest always taking "custom" boxes in and tagging them with decent prices. But they do tend to sit for longer before getting nabbed...

 

Make sure you check out Carvin's price on the Fostex bullet {you can paint the lense any color you want -- I use flourescent green in all my cabs ; }. Also, their crossover for this application is priced to buy as well and seems tailored for this woofer: it has car-bulb protection, a few levels of attenuation (which I like better than those unreliable rotary L pads), and crosses over at 2.5 KHz, which looks just right for that woofer.

 

Hey, this might be a keeper! It would also make a good compact drummer monitor.

 

 

<-- greenboy ---<<<<

[g.]

Tom, I haven't heard the Bergies, but I've played with the Epifanis. And I have trouble imagining a better 112 or 212. They sound great and can really take a pummeling. I've talked to Nick a couple of times about woofer design; he really went through a lot of modeling and experimentation to arrive at his landmark in power handling and efficiency for extended range basses.

 

If they weren't so damned expensive I'd have a 212 now; as it is I watch on eBay from time to time for my dream cab for loud gigs when i don't want to be packing for bi-amping.

 

 

<-- greenboy ---<<<<

[Jerryb]

I wouldn't buy any cabinet without at least trying the Bergantinos........they just crush!

Aloha, Jerry

[AlembicKoa]

Bag End...

 

*runs for cover*

 

Regards...

Steve

[Bob Gollihur]

If you're anywhere near Philly or Atlantic City NJ, drop by and check out the new Euphonic Audio CXL-112.

[Tom Capasso]

Originally posted by greenboy:

Tom, I haven't heard the Bergies, but I've played with the Epifanis. And I have trouble imagining a better 112 or 212. They sound great and can really take a pummeling. I've talked to Nick a couple of times about woofer design; he really went through a lot of modeling and experimentation to arrive at his landmark in power handling and efficiency for extended range basses...<-- greenboy ---<<<<

 

Greenboy - I don't have the background to speak intimately about specs, but I met Jim B. Guys like Nick and Jim are putting a lot of analysis and design into their boxes. My plan for Saturday is to go and hear 3 or 4 of these babies. And maybe come home with one. I may even bring my own guitar so I've got a more common comparison (and set the amps flat - I can't carry my amp too). I'll be starting up a weekly church gig, and the idea of leaving my Kustom 2x12 home and having speakers without casters is starting to appeal. If I had the cash, I'd get one of those Clarus 5 pound amps, and I'd be traveling light !!

 

Tom

[g.]

Bob, that EA is doing something with a larger woofer now that they've gone to the CXL series is music to my ears. I always liked the coax concept but hardly any company has stuck with it long enough to really make them common.

 

Actually Peavey made (makes?) a single 12" coax bass monitor that sounded good even low B'd but it wasn't efficient enough to keep up with a loud two-guitar band {go figure ; } so I didn't buy it.

 

I probably won't get over to your neck of the woods in this lifetime, but do plan on checking them out at Bass Northwest or maybe even closer. EA rocks!

 

 

<-- greenboy ---<<<<    technology on the march

[Ben]

Well, I live out here in the sticks in Vermont and Boston is 2.5 hours away and the nearest Epifani dealer is in New Haven, CT, which is 3.5 hours. My local music stores sell Peavey and GK, and I already have a GK head and 95lb Peavey 410 (which is a very nice speaker, by the way) that I bought last summer. So I am doing my proxy shopping via gathering opinions on the forums, and will purchase via the web, too, without feeling like I have ignored my local guys.

 

This may be mostly GAS - my Eden Nemesis 210 is really a pretty darn good amp and is relatively small and light. But I've always been a sucker for good speakers, and the current crop of 1x12s has got my attention. Sounds like I really can't go wrong with EA, Bergantino, or Epifani.

 

Tom, let us know what you find out over the weekend!

[57pbass]

As earlier mentioned check out Bag End. They have a very nice line of cabinets.

I use 2 cabinets of theirs with 1 x 15 in each. They sound very good and come with a 6 Year warranty.

 

Tough decisions to make many great cabinets out there.....Good Luck

[g.]

It looks like this 1x12 thread is wandering into other territory, so I waon't feel bad mentioning Acme, which for small cabs need at least the rated power, but have the closest to my ideal sound (full true lows, rich sounding with no dearth of lower and upper mids, extended natural top):

 

http://www.acmebass.com

 

And here's another small company that makes the lightest products around; their 123W weighs only 32lbs and includes a downward-firing 12" (like the old Clarus stuff or some good home subwoofers), and a mid driver and a horn. This looks like a great extended-range cab for upright players and for electric gigs in less raucous styles.

 

Some of their other cabs (15, 18) look like too small of a box for the speaker to do the kind of low end I like, but those should appeal to guys that like similar BagEnd boxes.

 

http://www.flitesound.com

 

 

<-- greenboy ---<<<<   sucker for extended-range speaker cabs

[J.T.]

Wow! I thought Flite had gone out of business. I heard a lot of stuff about their drivers blowing out easily and if put under a little bit of stress. Maybe it was another company.

[chardin]

Has anyone actually played a Flite Sound cabinet? I'm very curious about the down firing woofer. I seem to remember someone saying the down firing speakers don't project very well especially for bass.

---

Chris Hardin

[Ben]

Thanks for all the continuing suggestions.

 

I am curious about Flite sound, too. Their website is still there, and it looks like they are in business.

 

Steve, and 57Pbass, thanks for the suggestions regarding Bag End. What I am looking for is specifically a 1x12. This is perhaps silly but it's what I am up to! I have a 1x15 combo on hand, as well as the 2x10 and 4x10 already noted.

 

My first bass amp was a 2x12, and 12" speakers do sound different than 10s or 15s. To me these differences are very significant to live sound, and I find I have become more interested in different speaker cabs to change tone than in different amp heads or different basses. And, as noted in the exciting thread on "how many strings", I am just a weekend warrior having fun with the whole thing. I just turned 50 and, also as noted, want something that's even lighter and easier to carry than the Eden Nemesis (which is a great amp and I plan to keep forever as my backup amp).

 

At any rate, I am specifically looking for a 1x12 that can get to low C in a useful fashion. 2x12's are nice but my 4x10 cuts the mustard just fine when I need that much volume. The two 1x12s I find on Bag End's website only go down to 50Hz as the -6dB point. They seem to anticipate that you will use these in combination with one of their subwoofers, as far as I can tell. Also, it looks to me like with Bag End you need a special processor to get deep bass in a small cab, which sort of defeats the purpose of a small, light, simple setup. Nothing against Bag End, just doesn't look like they have what I want.

[g.]

Downward firing subs work fine for making true low end (that's why they are a fave with audiophile speaker builders. But you don't want to use them for much above maybe 100 Hz, and the multi-way bass cabs that use them are better for jazz, latin, coffee house, lounge -- styles and situations that are closer and more intimate than Deep Purple gigs ; }

 

As I said earlier, some of the other Flite cabs are much like many of the BagEnd products in terms of small-box-for-the-woofer-size, which is fine for people that like that set of tradeoffs, but probably isn't gonna win over low-end enthusiasts. For others who like a either a long cutoof slop or mid-bass hump they are fine, and they are much lighter than BagEnds.

 

I briefly heard one at Bass Northwest, and have seen guys on various forums say how pleased they are with them. I've also seen a couple of reviews on the multi-driver downward-firing 12/5/horn cab and they were really good reviews. (Maybe they are linked on Flite's site).

 

I'm thinking about calling Kurt at Flite and seeing if it is practical to build some boxes for some very deep 115 subs I have that just make a 5-string sound heavenly. It'd make it more likely that I haul one along to jams and quickie gigs when I can't justify Big Bertha (my Ampeg Extreme).

 

 

<-- greenboy ---<<<<    Bertha is one hell of a woman in a fight ; }

 

 

forgot to check my code

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V

 

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: greenboy ]

[JD_dup2]

I'm using the Eden CXM-112 with both my upright and my Fender Jazz. It has a cast frame Eden 12" and a coaxial Eden tweeter. Box is tall in porportion and weighs only 39lbs. I find my sound is crisp and detailed and there is plenty of bottom.

[Tom Capasso]

Went shopping Saturday. I agree that Bag End and EA have great reputations, but they weren't available where I was this weekend (they had a Bag End 1x15).

 

Like Ben I was thinking high end 1x12. I ended up hearing 3 of them - GenzBenz, Aguilar, and Bergantino. All sounded pretty good to me, but as I had to make a decision, I sorta felt like Goldilocks. The Aguilar was too rumble/deep, the GenzBenz lacked bottom, and the Berg was just right. As I say, it wasn't an easy choice because they were all pretty good.

 

I also learned about the amp I've been using. In the store, I played through an Eden, with controls flat. I took my rig out to a (low volume) rehearsal last night, and you could hear the difference - I have an old Carvin guitar head. It sounded good, but not like the Eden. Now I have to save my money for a good amp (I'm thinking Clarus "book sized"). But that's after I buy a new bass...

 

I had been out of the world of equipment for many years, and it's only the last year or so that I've been reading BP and hanging out here. I found that, thanks to these resources, I was able to speak intelligently about what I wanted, and knoew what products were what. Another guy was in the shop looking at basse, and I found myself explaining different aspects of construction, etc. that I had learned. We all (the other customer, the sales rep, and myself) had quite an enjoyable time indulging our bass passion for a few hours. I think the guy went back later and bought a used Lak 55-94, but I'm not sure.

 

I also went to the Bass Boutique and got to talk with Jimmy there, and saw some of his fretwork (I brought in mine to get a quote). We talked about various makers while I played what was on his wall (Elrick, F-bass, Kinal, etc.). Between the two stores, I confirmed that I'm a lacquer/cellulose guy, not a tung oil guy.

 

A great day shopping !!

 

Tom

[J.T.]

Congrats on the buy Tom. Just for the record, I wouldn't put a Clarus with that Berg. You're going to be severely underpowering it (the Clarus only puts out max 300 watts at 2ohms, I think 220 or 240 at 4ohms). I'd go for a 700-800 watt power amp and preamp. Nice clean LOUD sound. Or, if you don't turn up...just a nice clean sound.

[Ben]

Choices, choices!

 

I was going round and round between Bergantino, Epifani, and Euphonic Audio. From various things people have said on the web and in The Bottom Line, it's hard to go wrong with any of these. Bergantino products are currently taking the bass world by storm; the Epifani 112 is sturdy and reliable and loud; the new EA 112 accurate and clean and efficient.

 

Lo and behold, a used Epifani showed up on bassgear, and solved my dilemma. A check is on its way and soon it should be on its way to me.

 

I am really curious to see if an Epifani 112 is good enough that two of them could really replace my 4x10...

[Tom Capasso]

Ben,

 

You're right about those choices. Glad an answer presented itself. My guess is 2 solid boxes may well replace your "larger" one. So you'll keep scanning for another used? Good luck to you. Enjoy the great sound (I know I am!!).

 

Tom

[SlimT]

Tom & J.T.:

 

I've got a Clarus that I use with my Bergie 1 x 15 and 2 x 12. I play mostly small to medium. In most cases, I've had plenty of volume. I do agree with J.T., the Clarus doesn't bring nearly as much power to those cabs as you could. There's one club where I will be dusting off my SWR 750. Otherwise, I'm loving my Clarus. You would be surprised how much volume you can get from a Bergie 1 x 15 (8 ohms) at 120 watts.

 

And, if I'm not mistaken, Tom's looking for great tone as well as portability. It's small enough that it fits in my gear back pack! Woohoo!

 

Anyway. If you're not fighting two marshall stacks, you should be fine.

[Tom Capasso]

My issue is money (what a surprise!!). When I play my Christian Theatre thing, I'm with a keyboard, flute, electric acoustic, and unamplified singers. The Clarus would be fine, and the reduced size/weight is appealing. I'm not sure the Clarus would hold up in my rock band (drummer, percussion, keys, 2 guitars, doing classic rock). We aren't playing huge places, and I've been playing through a 70's Carvin guitar head that delivers 250 w @ 2 ohms (I'm using an 8 ohm cab). I can't afford the Clarus AND a more powerful amp. When the time comes for a new amp (which will be after the bass I need), I'll have to look at all the options..

 

Tom

[Steve Lawson]

At NAMM, I got to hear the Bergatinos and they sounded great - also, Ashdown just launched their new 'mini' series, which includes 1x10, 1x12,1x15 and 4x8 all in the same sized cabs - check out www.ashdownmusic.co.uk for more on those. I was using the 4x8 and the 1x12 for my solo tour in California, and it sounded amazing.

 

Also well worth checking out are the new cabs from accugroove - full range bass cabs - see www.accugroove.com - nice people, great gear, J.T. checked em out too...

 

cheers

 

Steve

www.steve-lawson.co.uk