Ed Friedland Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 Funny thing happened today. I bought a QSC PLX1602 based on several recomendations. I plug it into my Bergantino 310 in normal mode, using my TC 1144 preamp, 500watts into 4ohms. It sounds good, but not very loud. It seems to go into the red (clip filter is on) easily. I switch to bridge mono, "1600" claimed watts into 4 ohms. A little louder, nice tone, but not what you'd expect. I A/B it with the TC driving the power amp section of my old Trace 350 SMX which claims 700 watts peak power (that's all it says). The Trace blows the freakin' doors off the QSC. I could only put the power amp at 3 with the exact same preamp settings. The guys at QSC said I should exchange it. The store doesn't have another one in stock though. I had a similar experience with a Carvin 1000 watt amp awhile back. Not nearly as much volume as the Trace. What gives? Any suggestions about this? ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 Hmm, do you have another preamp you could try just to be sure it's the amp? This message has been edited by Ben on 05-03-2001 at 07:43 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 my assumption is that the PLX is significantly cleaner than the trace SMX. i would guess that the trace is sending out a lot of extra harmonic content to your speakers that the QSC isn't, therefore the trace generates more SPL at the speaker than the QSC. i think of QSC as "good for the money" instead of a truly quality product, so i'm just as inclined to say the PLX is a piece of dung in a box, but affordable dung. to each his own, though. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted May 4, 2001 Author Share Posted May 4, 2001 Well, my response to the problem was to exchange the amp for a new one. It will be in next week. I'll try it again. If I have the same problem, I'll know it was "dung in a box" and not a defective amp. I like the idea of loads of clean power at 21 pounds. The weight is a factor for me. But, I won't sacrifcie sound. The TC/Trace combination works great, I used it last night and it rocks. I love the Trace's bi-amp compression circuit, it's very musical. So, if the PLX doesn't sound bett, I'll stick with the proven performer. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll report back when the new amp is in. ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 If the QSC specs are accurate the 1602 ought to be able to punt the Bergantino speaker cones across the room. In a manner of speaking... This message has been edited by Ben on 05-03-2001 at 09:37 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 ben is definitely right. but i've done a listening test with a crown K2 and a dennon 60W home tuner/amplifier. the speakers were really dirty and the sound wasn't horrendous, but the K2 didn't sound eons louder at probably 800W than the 60W dennon. the difference was that the crown could push a lot more low end -- it really hit you in the chest instead of just being there, and it was a lot cleaner at the volume it was at. so it's a "yes and no" kind of answer. but i would say that unless you're really sold on the direct out of your preamp, having a really clean, translucent power amp is not necessarily the way to go. trace elliot contributes a lot of color to the sound, and it appears in this case that you really want a rose-shaded sound, not a clear sound. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted May 4, 2001 Author Share Posted May 4, 2001 I was using the 1/4" output of my TC into the 1/4" input on the PLX. Do you think I would get more volume if I used the 3 pin D.I. out on the preamp to the 3 pin input on the amp? That would take up the DI for live gigs though. I actually would like a clear sound, just really loud! The PLX had no volume compared to the Trace. I know the difference between perceived volume and real power. The PLX had no output in comparison. I will just assume it was defective until I can play through a new unit. ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtual.rayprodigy.net Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 IMHO I've yet to hear a better power amp than Crown.They have a high damping factor which is important for bass,and they are one of the few amp makers whose published power ratings can truly be trusted.I have a Power Base 3 which puts out 1500w bridged at 4 ohms,although i mostly run it stereo.It's cost effective as well;they can be bought new for around $750. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnb Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Ed, I must agree with virtual.ray, but you did say that weight is a factor. Why not try a Walter Woods? My Woods puts out 700 watts into 2 ohms and it weighs 7 lbs. I use it in some pretty loud bands (funk and reggae) and not only am I very happy with it, but so are my employers. Oh yeah, my acoustic sounds great through it and I use it on session work for a preamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lug Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Speaking of weight, has anybody tried the Peavey dpc 1400x yet? 1400 watts (int 4 ohms, bridged mono) 1 rack space, 15 lbs. They are expensive but if weight is a factor you probably can't get better bang for the buck if it works as advertised. You can stop now -jeremyc STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 I've been using the Peavey DPC1400X since it came out. It rocks! Great specs for a bass rig. The clean output makes a top cab's transients totally scary, and the subwoofer (I bi-amp usually) gets driven to its max with great damping control -- with still some gain left. (I've never been able to turn either side up all the way; that is just a scary thought!) The weight and form factor make the same rack work for low volume and high volume settings without it ever seeming like extra baggage. And I have driven two-ohm loads all night, so it isn't one of those amps that poops out when the going gets rough. As far as Ed's QSC, I haven't used that amp, but I've used its more expensive and higher-specced brethren in big SR, and those later-generation Powerlights really have balls. Ed, your Trace has compression, so that should make some difference, as well as the afore-mentioned added harmonic components lots of instrument heads/amps tend to add. This is a bit like the tube versus solid-state debate we have all come to love so ; } And, as far as the ear is concerned, the same amount of clean power in the midrange is not as loud as that which is slightly dirty. The perception is that it is louder even if the meters say there is no difference. I also wonder about damping; the overhang of a poorly-damped speaker can also be louder as many guitar players have taken advantage of. When I need Loud Loud (!) for a real rockin' tune and the band has gone berserk with Spinal Tap knobism, I use the preamp pre-gain in mild or greater overdrive to get over, and it definitely can keep up with Marshall stacks (no frequency masking here!) where the clean tone would have been almost submerged. Even though the power amp was delivering about the same. I still think the QSC model you got is cheaper for a reason though ; } No way that much power should get its doors blown off. With my amp I can throw it out a long way and be heard with any type of tone. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted May 11, 2001 Author Share Posted May 11, 2001 Well, I got a new QSC PLX 1602 today to try out. First off, the guy at the store didn't know that to bridge the two sides together you need a special 4 pin Speakon connector, so I wasn't getting the bridge power out of it the first time. This time I used the banana plug connection and it did make a big difference. I also A/B'd it again against the Trace. The Trace still seems louder, but it's not as clean at the high volumes. The QSC is much clearer, and it seems I can get a respectable amount of volume out of it. The Bergantino 310 seems to handle the supposed 1600 watts in bridge mode just fine. You'd think a cab that's rated (very conservatively) at 600 watts would be toast with that kind of load. So, I'll give the QSC a few days and see how it goes, I can return it within 30 days if I need to. ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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