Help for a newbie....

[David]

After reading several of the topics in this forum, I feel that I can ask a few stupid questions without being run off the forum. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

I've never played guitar before and I want to start. And having played bass clarinet for a few years, I'm attracted to the bottom. So I really want to learn how to play electric bass. I've been spending quite a bit of time both online and in local stores researching. So hopefully my stupid questions aren't too stupid.

 

First is that I've come to the decision that if I really want to play bass, I should start out learning how to play bass. Although a few people, including my wife and youngest son, think I should start with learning an acoustic six string. Comments on this??

 

Second is that I want to buy a bass that won't cost a fortune. Somewhere in the $500 range is what I'm shooting for. I realize that an important part, of what bass I buy, is what kind of music I want to play. And that's difficult to pin down. Probably my top two are Rock and Folk. I'm not really "into" Jazz or Blues, although I do like listening to them if it suits my mood. Same with Country, and probably everthing else too.

 

At the moment I'm sort of torn between a Fender P-Bass and an Ibanez. Please forgive that I don't remember exactly which models. The Fender is $427, and the Ibanez $329.

 

One of the things I'm looking for is a nice clear tone. But I think that depends as much on how you play as anything else. The salesman plugged in the Ibanez and played a bit. But the sound seemed very.... hmmmm.. I guess buzzy is the word. He tended to slap, so could that have just been fret buzz?? I sat with a used Fender in another store and sort of played at the strings. I noticed that a nice side stroke gave a clear tone, and a hard pluck tended to have some buzz. Am I anywhere in the ballpark here??

 

I just read an article by Jeff Berlin on MusicPlayer.com about "How to Buy the Right Bass". It's here if anyone would like to read it. http://www.musicplayer.com/CDA/Player/Main/1,2228,Lessons-Bassist-5000392,00.html

 

Based on that I have a question. Graphite or wood neck? How do you feel about being able to adjust the truss rod?

 

Do you think I should be insistent that they adjust the bass for me? The problem here is that I don't know how to play. All I can go by is what I hear.

 

Should I start with 5 string? To me, the lower, the better. I doubt I'll ever restring for a high 5. I'd probably want to re-string a 6 string to go lower if I could. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

I think that's enough for now. I'm sure you're tired of reading this. And you needn't try to address all my issues. Just pick the one or two that you feel strongly about. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Thanks to all,

David

[BassLand]

Hi David,

 

Q - First is that I've come to the decision that if I really want to play bass, I should start out learning how to play bass. Although a few people, including my wife and youngest son, think I should start with learning an acoustic six string. Comments on this??

 

A - Start on bass if that is your ultimate goal. Most bass players use fingers as opposed to a pick so Guitar won't help you there. Bass has strings further apart (string to string) and with a longer scale (length from bridge to nut) guitar is going so far in the other direction that I don't feel it is an asset to play it as a precurser to bass.

 

On the other side of that question, it is always good to have a grasp of chord construction but you really don't have to play guitar to do that.

 

Q - Second is that I want to buy a bass that won't cost a fortune. Somewhere in the $500 range is what I'm shooting for. I realize that an important part, of what bass I buy, is what kind of music I want to play. And that's difficult to pin down.

 

A - Either of the basses you mentioned (Fender P bass & Ibanez) are good starter instruments and (in the case of the Fender is) used in all kinds of music.

 

BL

 

This message has been edited by BassLand on 03-07-2001 at 11:28 AM

[dansouth]

Skip the six-string. It's a completely different instrument. Would you buy a clarinet in order to learn tenor sax?

 

The basses you mentioned are fine - too bad the moron at the store decided to demo his slap technique instead of the Ibanez. There are some very good low priced Yamaha's, and the Carvin "bolt" basses are quite a bargain. You might also consider a second hand Music Man if you can find one in good shape.

 

Start with a 4-string. It goes pretty low, and it's easier for a beginner. You can always tune the E-string to a D if you need extra low notes on some songs. This is a common practice. Many popular songs were recorded with this tuning, including "Brass In Pocket" by the Pretenders and "Penny Lane" by the Beatles.

 

Other things you need - a tuner, a couple of high quality guitar/instrument cables, a metronome or drum machine, a small amp (or a headphone practice amp), a music stand, a comfortable stool or chair (with no arms). Some beat boxes will enable you to plug in a bass or guitar and monitor your sound along with the rhythm tracks.

 

Graphite necks are probably out of your price range right now. Don't buy a bass that can't make truss rod adjustments. You'll need to adjust it as the weather changes (but PLEASE leave this to a technician who knows how to do it).

 

Consider taking a few lessons, even if you're not ready for a long term commitment. If you teach yourself, you're going to make some mistakes. Mistakes that you practice every day stay with you for a long time.

[David]

I wanted to jump in and thank you both for your replies. And so that you can see I'm anxiously awaiting your comments. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Dansouth, thanks for mentioning ancillary equipment. I hadn't given that any thought at all.

 

I fully intend to take lessons. That's the best way to learn anything new. Have someone *show* you, then practice the hell out of it.

 

And please, don't stop with thoughts and comments everyone. The more I hear the better. I want to be the best bass guitarist I can be, and every little bit helps.

 

Thanks all,

David

[CraigLeyhFrameBand.com]

Go with the bass to start if you want to play bass. I think

all the basses mentioned are god basses. In a lower price

range I really like the Carvins. I also want welcome you to the world of bassdom. It is the most fun I ever have, playing with others making music.

 

 

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Thank you,

Craig S. Leyh

CraigLeyh@FrameBand.com

 

This message has been edited by CraigLeyh@FrameBand.com on 03-08-2001 at 03:09 PM

[leond]

David,

 

Regarding starting on bass vs. acoustic six string: what others above have said; start on the bass. The guitar is a different instrument, it just happens to look similar.

 

Regarding your equipment questions: The first thing with a bass is that it must be able to be played in tune anywhere on the fretboard. A $5,000 bass that can't be played in tune is useless. The second thing is that you need to be comfortable playing the instrument. If your hand and neck hurts after playing for ten minutes, the bass isn't any good for you (this is different than the soreness of getting used to a new or different instrument). I feel these two are a must for any instrument.

 

After this it comes down to personal choice. Do you like: how the bass sounds, how the it looks, what big name players play that bass (or one like it), do you care about resale, do you want to buy new or used, etc.

 

If you are buying, either new or used from a store, you shouldn't pay a penny till they set it up to your liking (and install new strings if the existing ones are dead).

 

High action vs. low action, each has pluses and minuses. Just starting out, I'd recommend your action be set somewhere in between. There should be no buzz when each open string is plucked with your normal force and you should be able to press any string down to the fretboard with minimal pressure with any finger.

 

BTW, if these are the stupid questions, you'll have to try harder. They seem pretty good to me.

 

LeonD

[David]

>> BTW, if these are the stupid questions, you'll have to try harder.

>> They seem pretty good to me.

>> LeonD

 

Which reminds me. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Do I need to worry about scale length? I'm not a small guy. Should I try to go for a longer scale?

 

Thanks,

David

[bootyquake]

Congratulations on your decision to enter the wonderful world of bass.

 

As the others have chimed in, 6-string is not the starting point for someone wanting to play bass, though any musical knowledge can't hurt. But, if you want to play bass then practice bass. The function of the guitar is much different than the function of the bass in music, so start where you're heading.

 

As to equipment, try to worry more about music than the hunks of wood. Get a decent bass that sounds nice and plays fairly easy. Take the instrument to someone who can set it up properly and can teach you how to maintain it.

Take lessons, and listen listen listen to as much music as possible. Focus on the supportive role of the bass in country, samba, salsa, pop, blues, swing, rock and whatever else. Learn what the music requires, then the technique will have some application for you. It will make more sense than just practicing how to wiggle your fingers.

 

In the end, you'll be like all of us: forever students.

[dansouth]

Originally posted by David:

>> BTW, if these are the stupid questions, you'll have to try harder.

>> They seem pretty good to me.

>> LeonD

 

Which reminds me. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Do I need to worry about scale length? I'm not a small guy. Should I try to go for a longer scale?

 

Thanks,

David

 

Most basses have a 34" scale. I'd start there.

 

Bootyquake is right. Listen to lots of tunes, and try to focus on the bass and drums, how they support the rest of the band and how they create the "feel" of the song. Are some notes louder than others? shorter of longer than others? Does the bassist play a rhythm on one note or is he playing a combination of low and high notes? Does the bass part sound relaxed? hectic? driving? laid back? What creates that feel? How does the tone fit in with the other instruments? Is the bass punching out deep lows, or is it trimming the lows to allow more room for the kick drum? (Usually a deep bass blends with a tight kick, and vice versa.)

 

I envy you. You're about to depart on a very exciting journey!!

[David]

I'd like to thank everyone for their help. I appreciate your advice very much. And I'll be hanging out here and watching every word you say trying to get a feel for playing bass. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif And every once in a while asking for help clearing up some mystery term I've come across. Like "walking" for instance. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Thanks to all,

David

[Ed Friedland]

David,

"walking" means playing a quarter note bass line. It's mostly associated with jazz, but there are walking lines in country, blues, r&b, rock, etc. Hey, I wrote a couple of books on it, maybe you should check them out http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

www.edfriedland.com/books.html

[David]

Walking is just a quarter note line? Ok, I guess is this where my lack of bass knowledge kicks in. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif How is that different than other playing? Are most bass lines played in half or whole notes? Trying to think of how I hear most bass in the songs I listen to. Would the intro to "These Boots Are Made For Walking", that Nancy Sinatra did, be a walking bass line?

 

Don't suppose anyone has a wav or mp3 with a good example? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[ST.Morigeaugte.net]

Ed Sez.

>> Hey, I wrote a couple of books on it, maybe you should check them out <<

 

David, theory is a debatable topic.. There are certainly great players that wouldn't know a written walking line if they see it. I've played for years before making the choice to really study theory.. for me I can see where I did myself a big disservice. Our friend ED here does have some good stuff, go and pick up his books. They are well laid out and are an excellent reference book to have in your Library. Shop around for an instructor... I'm tellin ya!!! Playin is a Hoot...... most fun you'll ever have working.....

 

 

 

This message has been edited by Mo Thumper on 03-13-2001 at 09:55 AM

[dansouth]

Originally posted by David:

Walking is just a quarter note line? Ok, I guess is this where my lack of bass knowledge kicks in. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif How is that different than other playing? Are most bass lines played in half or whole notes? Trying to think of how I hear most bass in the songs I listen to. Would the intro to "These Boots Are Made For Walking", that Nancy Sinatra did, be a walking bass line?

 

Don't suppose anyone has a wav or mp3 with a good example? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Ed's Walking Bass Lines books are EXCELLENT. I'm not trying to suck up. They're really good. They progress from the very beginning and work you slowly up to some pretty happening changes. They come with a CD, so you can play along with drums and piano when you're ready. If you spend some time working consistently with Ed's books, you'll learn a lot.

 

Examples? Are you kidding? How about 75% of Sinatra's catalog? "Fly Me To The Moon" and "New York, New York" are excellent examples, as are any of the uptempo standards from the 30's and 40's. Walking lines can also be quite fast (double time) - try "Confirmation" or "It Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing".

[Ed Friedland]

Dan,

Thanks for the kind words, even if you weren't trying to "suck up" to the moderator! (now....where do you want me to send the check? ) http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

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www.edfriedland.com

[ST.Morigeaugte.net]

>>Dansouth Sez... If you spend some time working consistently with Ed's books, you'll learn a lot.<<

 

Ditto........ To steal a line............. 'Just Do It!!!'

 

Mo

[LONGWALK]

i COULD POSSIBLY SAVE YOU SOME MONEY ON YOUR FIRST BASS.CONTACT ME AT DCSTEVENSJ@YAHOO.COM

[good morning]

Sounds like the questions I had 2 years ago.

 

It can be tough to be confident about your choice. Years of piano helped me some, but I still found it difficult. Here are some suggestions on choosing a bass:

 

1. Take your time with each instrument. Eventually you'll hear differences, feel more comfortable with one over another, etc.

 

2. Music stores are noisy and distracting, so I listened using headphones plugged into the amp. The headphones cut out the store and let me hear the bass.

 

3. If you don't know now to stroke/pluck the strings, don't worry -- just use your thumb for now. Trim your nails, too. Nail noise will add to your distractions.

 

4. Play simple 2 and 3 note patterns, 1-3 (1-3-5), 1-4 (1-4-5), etc. Do this up the whole neck, but slow enough to place your fingers accurately behind each fret. Try to identify any dead frets.

 

5. Choose a 4 stringer. You can always do a drop D tuning, like has been suggested. I've got big hands that are used to stretching all over a keyboard. Still, I chose a 4 string.

 

6. When you get your new "baby" home, ALWAYS practice with a metronome or a very simple drum beat (the simpler the better, so you can concentrate on your playing and not the drums). Play the beat slowly, even after you get better. You want to be able to master the silent spaces between the beats so you can fill 'em/not fill 'em, as the song demands. With slow tempos, you'll become confident about where to place rests or hit a sixteenth note, and you'll get very accurate.

 

6. Read Bassplayer magazine. There's good instruction in every issue, but it's also fun to read other people's stories.

 

And speaking of Bassplayer magazine and time, get the April 99 issue (spring 99, anyway). The whole issue is about TIME. You'll learn things about "time" you never thought of. Simply excellent issue. In fact, I bought it before even playing bass because the cover screamed, "Get Great Time," and I knew my piano playing needed timing work. The magazine gave me quite a bass itch though, and a month later, with IRS refund in hand, I bought one. One of the best decisions I ever made.

 

Hope this helps!

 

This message has been edited by swright50@excite.com on 04-12-2001 at 06:10 PM

[Ed Friedland]

<>

 

swright50,

Hey, glad we snagged you! Another convert. The "Get Great Time" article was the last in a series of 3 articles I wrote on Time/Groove practices. They have all been combined into one chapter in my newest book "The Working Bassist's Toolkit" (shameless self promotion alert!). I'm glad you got the message, time is where it's at, especially for bass players. Without it, why bother playing?

 

I'm doing a few of my Time/Groove workshops in June, first at the Vancouver Bass Conference in BC 6/15-17 www.vbass.com then at the National Guitar Summer Workshop's Bass Summit Week in LA, www.guitarworkshop.com - a week long bass fest that culminates in Bass Day LA.

 

 

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www.edfriedland.com

[Ben]

David, I think you are getting really good advice here.

 

I will add my two cents worth.

 

If you can, take a bass player with you to try the bass, too, as you approach your final selection. At this price range, there can be large variations between individual samples, and an experienced player will be able to tell a good feel from a bad feel very quickly. As I mentioned in another thread, when my son got his first bass (a Fender Jazz) we tried 3 or 4 of them at one sitting, and one felt really good to me compared to the others, so we bought that one.

 

Also, I recently tried a new DeArmond Pilot bass that I thought was very nice, and I also like Fernandes basses.

 

Good Luck!

[lug]

For a first bass, I agree with the carvin advice (and I've never even met Ed) or you might try an overseas tobias (check em at musicyo.com) I haven't

played one yet but have heard they are an excellent bang for the buck. As

for walking bass, I thought thats what I did when the rest of the band would ask me to leave. Also, never play a guitar....they are evil and

apparently cause you to have bad time from what I've seen. Good luck and

hope you have fun with it.

[ricknbokker]

Hello David.

Check out page 2 of this forum for a thread called "Forum Members", and check out my response. It's a few things I wish someone had told me when I first started out.

Best of luck to you, and HAVE FUN!!!

[Bobby Bass]

As far as a suggestion for a first Bass instrument. I'll repeat what I have been told as long as I can remember. "IF YOU OWN ONLY ONE BASS, MAKE IT A FENDER" I have owned many basses over the last 35+ years & I always seem to have one or come back to a Fender Bass. Try to get an American Fender. I'm not saying stay away from the other Fenders, but be pickey about the one you purchase. Next thing, get a subscription to BASS PLAYER Magazine. I think I have every issue that they printed. Listen too music from a Bass Player's view point. Get a Bass teacher if you can find one. Not a guitar player that plays Bass. A guitar player hears things differently. Practice, Practice, Practice.

 

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[David]

Just letting everyone know I'm still taking notes. Thanks to everyone for their advice. I did get a subscription to BassPlayer. And I've been reading everything I can find. But looks like I'm going to be learning bass via the "Think Method" for a bit yet. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

David