Wally Malone Posted February 16, 2001 Share Posted February 16, 2001 I have also seen a problem with drummers not doing as well after the first gig. On the first gig they are all ears and eyes. I believe they feel they did a good job on that first gig and think they know the material then are not as attentive on subsequent gigs. This is something I have experienced on numerous occasions with many different drummers. Do you think drummers recognize this as a problem and talk about it on their forums? I have basses to play, places to be and good music to make! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted February 17, 2001 Author Share Posted February 17, 2001 >>Do you think drummers recognize this as a problem and talk about it on their forums? << Oh yeah....sure they do! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steele Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 AH an easy one. Firstly someone who is a nice guy/girl Then keeping time is pretty important. and most importantly someone who actually realises that if you get the basic rudiments together all the flashy stuff will come in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHAN Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 Based on recent events.... Here's what Gene,Paul and Ace *DON'T * look for in a drummer... . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Peter Criss http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif. . . . . . . . . . . . . . This message has been edited by KHAN on 02-21-2001 at 01:08 PM So Many Drummers. So Little Time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fet Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 All good replies. Also: 1) Drummer should LIKE the music he is playing. I once did a jobbing gig (on guitar) alongside the top "jazz drummer" in my mid-size Midwestern city. The guy was bored and hostile playing the necessary rock tunes, and it showed... this was the guy who gets called to work with the top national jazz soloists when they come to town. But on "Get Ready" (Temptations), his tempo wandered, his fills were sloppy - he sucked, big-time. 2) He should be able to play softly if the music calls for it. So many cannot do this... 3) He should be able to play simply if the music calls for it. So many cannot do this... All these boil down to MATURITY, and it is surprising how little this quality correlates with age or experience sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHAN Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 fet wrote: >>>1) Drummer should LIKE the music he is playing.>>>The guy was bored and hostile playing the necessary rock tunes, and it showed... >>>2) He should be able to play softly if the music calls for it. So many cannot do this... 3) He should be able to play simply if the music calls for it. So many cannot do this... All these boil down to MATURITY, and it is surprising how little this quality correlates with age or experience sometimes... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are all good points , but I would like to add that I have seen every one of these examples executed to my dismay by many guitarists,keyboardists,singers and bassists so many times that I would not categorize this as just a "drummer" thing. Part of being a professional is giving your best performance even if you don't LOVE what you are playing at the moment.Giving your best in all situations may be the biggest part of becoming a "mature" musician... Just my$0.02 So Many Drummers. So Little Time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Originally posted by Wally Malone: I have also seen a problem with drummers not doing as well after the first gig. Drinking (etc.) may be a factor. Also, the crowd. It's hard to keep the motivation if the crowd is dead. If people are really into the show, the last set is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted February 21, 2001 Author Share Posted February 21, 2001 Well, I've played wedding gigs more than once with a guy that is a very well known and respected jazz drummer. (No names please....) This guy was amazing, but....while his attitude toward playing rock tunes was fine, he had a "jazz guy" concept of never playing the same kick drum pattern. So, I'm playing a dotted-quarter/eighth note groove, and he's all over the map! It was frustrating cause I'd much rather play jazz with him. Having him at a wedding was no fun, not to mention his outlandish behavior on the breaks. Another story.... So, the ability to play appropriately for the tune/gig is a big one on my list of things I want from a drummer. www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Worthington Posted February 22, 2001 Share Posted February 22, 2001 Most important: A RELAXED playing style. I've been playing with a lot of different drummers lately, both as a freelance bass player, and as a member of the house band at a weekly Open Mic. There are different levels of ability, of course, and different styles, etc., but the big thing that the good ones seem to have in common is the ability to relax while they play. You can see it in their body language. The bad ones are working waaaay too hard to maintain, say, a fast shuffle. Their arms, wrists, neck, shoulders--even their face--is real tense and rigid. The good ones I've seen even literally lay back, leaning back a little, letting their spine relax. These guys could maintain the same groove for hours. I'm also in a permanent band, and the biggest problem our drummer has is that he can't relax enough, and then he's fighting against himself, making it harder for him to keep the tempo steady, have endurance, and be able to keep the basic beat unvaried for the duration of the tune. At these Open Mics I've been doing, the bad drummers have the following traits in common: - A stiff, rigid style, instead of relaxed. - They seem to get bored playing the same pattern too long, regardless of what's going on in the song (ever hear a guy shift his beat in the middle of a verse or guitar solo, for no apparent reason?). A good drummer, like a good bassist, is there to support the song and the other players, and find the right moments to stick in fills and frills. It's the subtle variations that make it interesting, not suddenly switching to double time on the hi-hat because, gee, I've been doing this now for 12 measures and I'm bored. - A drummer who can't groove unless he's slamming. This is related to the relaxed playing style. This is especially important these days, when everyone I run into is shooting for quality sound at lower volumes, and most of us are playing in relatively small rooms. - Speeding up when getting louder, and slowing down when getting quiet. A good drummer should be able to bring it up and down without changing anything else. - Not being able to play (or maintain) a proper shuffle beat. There's nothing like a swinging shuffle jam to expose the guys who need to go back to the woodshed before they dare have the balls to audition for another blues band. - Neil Peart disease. For me and many I know, the joke used to be that if a drummer showed up at an audition with a double kick set, then you might as tell him not to bother setting up his gear. (Show me a guy who's favorite drummer is Neil Peart, and I'll show you a drummer who overplays, who's all about the big fills, who's gonna be bored playing any song that doesn't have an inherently kick-ass drum part. This is a stereotype, of course, but it didn't evolve out of nowhere.) There are some drummers who get behind the kit--not to make music--but to simply pound skins. Ever hear a drummer just start throwing in fills, seemingly for no reason. It's the equivalent of a bass player deciding, I feel like slapping on this song, so what if it is a cover of John Lennon's Imagine? One more thing: If auditioning a drummer, having a spacious basement, with a well-stocked mini-fridge, is a very nice trait. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurosawa Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 He should be willing to post his own bail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 >>Topic: What do you look for in a drummer? << Well, a flexible user-interface is important. Plenty of memory. Strong sampling capabilities. Realistic swing quantization is important. Should definitely have tight MIDI timing. Onboard effects are nice, and seperate... Wait, are we talking about the carbon-based humanoid type drummers? The ones you have to "sleep" with or exchange bodily fluids with? Yuck...sorry, I must be on the wrong board. curvedominant Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Friedland Posted April 9, 2001 Author Share Posted April 9, 2001 I've played with a few drummers that I wished had "quantize" features built in! Another good quality in a drummer is patience... An old roomate/drummer friend used to start packing up his kit during the last set! By the time we were at the last tune, all he had up was the kick, hi hat and snare! Another good quality, memory: This is also the guy that would forget to bring little unimportant things to the gig like.....a kick drum! He once had to play the whole night using his trap case for a bass drum. He once forgot his sticks and called me at home asking me to bring him a pair. So I jump in the car and drive into town to deliver a set of sticks only to see him show up at the top of the stairs waving a pair, there was a drummer in another room of the catering hall, it never occured to him to ask around before dragging me through town. ------------------ www.edfriedland.com www.edfriedland.com The Bass Whisperer Bass Whisperer TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 Ed, that post had me wailing at my monitor. >>This is also the guy that would forget to bring little unimportant things to the gig like.....a kick drum! Oh, Lordy, I could tell ya stories. It's too bad we don't possess Lee's gift for maintaining great drummers who would hang around the house indefinitely while we construct tunes, or else beatboxes would never have been invented in the first place. That having been said, I recently began working with a carbon-based drummer, and it's turning into a molto-phatt collaboration. I have seen and/or played with enough monster drummers (Bruford, Alzonia Johnson, etc.) to know that this cat is top-flight. Most importantly, he has what Eric Worthington so succinctly described as a "relaxed" style. It takes confidence to be relaxed, in any situation. To effectively swing takes real confidence, because one must have the confidence to wait beyond "one" to make their statement. This may surprise folks who know that my current projects are electro-dance, but that's only my current recording thang - when it comes to re-interpreting those tunes in a live setting, it's a whole different ball game. In a live situation, it's got to be funky, and I need a drummer who knows how to put the snare hits in any place BUT 2 & 4, and still keep a tight groove. Who can create a breakdown by dropping out beats in the most un-expected places. Syncopation is key. Modern drummers are as useful as they are syncopated. Otherwise, you may as well use the beatbox. curvedominant Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 I play percussion in a local play-for-fun orchestra, and have been hitting things with sticks for over three decades. I have a drumkit in the basement and am a simple/solid kit drummer, but bass is my thing outside an orchestra. All I ask is that a drummer be a better drummer than I am, which is not really a very high standard! Keep time, have some dynamics, know the music, listen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigLeyhFrameBand.com Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 >>Most important: A RELAXED playing style. The very first thing to look for. I also like the Neil Peart question at an audition. ------------------ Thank you, Craig S. Leyh CraigLeyh@FrameBand.com Thank you, Craig S. Leyh CraigLeyh@NVSMedia.com Keep It Low! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 >>Neil Peart disease I hear you loud and clear there. It seems especially true on Long Island for some reason... I'll echo what everyone else has said...time, taste, groove, ears, brain http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif...just being a good MUSICIAN rather than just a good drummer. When a good drummer plays, there should never be any doubt about where the quarter note is. Pushing and pulling a little bit is okay, but steadily rushing or dragging is not. Attitude is important as well. If the bandleader turns around and asks him/her to play a certain way (within reason...some bandleaders are less sane than others), he/she should do it and complain about it later. That being said, I've seen plenty of good drummers with a bad attitude work as well, I just prefer not to chat with them during the break. Horrible drummer story: I once played a swing band gig in Atlantic City for a drummer with whom I was amazed that he got the gig in the first place considering how well it paid. The rest of the band were horn players and a guitarist with whom I played with regulary. As soon as we walked into the venue (one of those vegas-esque exhibition/dinner halls) he came up to us and started talking to extensively about what a good drummer he was, how happy we should be to do this gig, how professional he was, etc. He also frequently mentioned throughout the conversation that he had played for Tom Jones. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif When the time came to play, I was already expecting to be thoroughly unimpressed after listening to an hour-long (yes, 60 minutes) rant from this guy about why he was so good. I did not expect, however, for this guy to sound worse than a freshman-year high school band drummer. For the ENTIRE evening, he interpreted a jump/swing groove as a two beat MARCHING feel. And then there was his time... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/mad.gif I swear that sometimes that he would count out a tempo and then begin playing TWICE as fast (and no, we weren't playing in cut time. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif) His tempos would waver so wildly during a tune that it was difficult to know what to do, since resisting to follow him in his self-exploration of retards and accelerandos did nothing to reign him in since he wasn't listening to anyone anyway. By the end of the tune I actually felt physically exausted from desperately trying to create a pocket where one didn't exist. My mind reeled...how could this guy have possibly gotten this gig in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Worthington Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 There seems to be an inverse relationship between how much a "musician" talks out his ass, and how pathetic he really is, especially when it comes to working with other musicians as a team. There are some basketball players that can dunk, and do amazingly acrobatic moves. But no one wants to play with themn, because thay never pass the ball, don't set screens or picks for anyone else, don't play defense, and probably have many fundamentals missing from their game, such as free-throw shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.