Drum loops, MIDI or drum machine: which do you use?

[Rim]

I would like to create my own CD with full band instrumentation but I cannot record real drums. Which alternatives do you use? The songs will be in the rock/pop genre. I would like to be able to get drum tracks up and running fast to lay down all the other tracks but be able to go back and change the drums to make it more realistic. I've worked with MIDI but my sound card doesn't have good drum sounds. I've worked with a drum machine but it was kind of slow to program. I've never worked with drum loops. I record and mix using Pro Tools LE and would like something that will be easy to use with it. Your help and guidance is appreciated. Thanks!

[Franknputer]

I used drum machines a lot for home studio stuff, but I always ended up spending way too much time programming the drums in an effort to get them to sound less machine-like. Now, I mostly use drum loops - you have to get a collection going to have variety, but looping a real drummer is much more satisfying to hear IMHO, and a lot faster than programming. Plus, if you use a sampler program of some kind to trigger them, it's real easy to beef them up with additional sounds to make the loop unique (You can do this in an editor too, but it's a bit more work), and setting up a song is pretty much the same as programming a drum machine. My 0.02 :D

[AlChuck]

riffing, Surely your drum machine has MIDI In and Out. You can very easily use the computer sequencer and use the drum machine's sounds rather than those on the soundcard. That's the whole point of MIDI -- you can use it to trigger any device that understands the MIID protocol.

[JimK]

I use Cakewalk's Guitar Tracks Pro for writing/recording. It comes with a bunch of loops. I mainly use those. But, when I can't find a loop to fit a part of a song, then I use Fruity Loops (also comes with GT Pro) and the single drum hits from the loop CD to create my own loops and fills. I agree, using loops is a lot faster then programming your own.

[RABid]

I use drum machine patterns to start, most of which I program. Once the song is together I go back and use a Roland SP-11 kit or Handsonic to create more realistic patterns with a better feel and push. Robert

[Rim]

[quote]Originally posted by AlChuck: [b]riffing, Surely your drum machine has MIDI In and Out. You can very easily use the computer sequencer and use the drum machine's sounds rather than those on the soundcard.[/b][/quote]Yeah, except I borrowed the drum machine, returned it and the guy sold it. That is an option, though. I may download some trial drum loops since other people have posted good things about it. It's also the one I don't have any experience with. I was looking into [url=http://www.dddrummer.com]Smart Loops (formerly Drag and Drop Drummer)[/url] but they don't have a downloadable demo available. I think a "Lite" version ships with Guitar Tracks Pro that JimK mentioned. Anyone have good suggestions on drum loop programs? Thanks!

[Tusker]

I use Loops in Sonic Foundry Acid for the same reasons that frankputer mentioned. I used to use midi. If my drum module was better I might have stayed with MIDI for convenience. Regards, Jerry

[Franknputer]

Maybe you should specify your platform? I can tell you what I use in BeOS, but unless you're running BeOS it won't help... ;)

[Rim]

[quote]Originally posted by franknputer: [b]Maybe you should specify your platform? I can tell you what I use in BeOS, but unless you're running BeOS it won't help... ;) [/b][/quote]Ooops. Good point. I'm running Pro Tools LE on PC (Windows 98 Second Edition).

[Franknputer]

OK - :D try here : http://www.threechords.com/hammerhead/introduction.shtml Now, I haven't used this, but this is the project that inspired the BeOS one that I do use, XRS (which has since gone on to be a much larger, full-featured program, but I digress...) Now, this probably do what you want BUT - just below the nav bar on the left are 2 interesting links - Other S/W Drumboxes and Useful Apps & Utils. Check those out & see if they help. Good luck, mate! :thu:

[Rim]

Thanks, Frank. Or is it Mr. Puter? :) I've downloaded a handful of them and about to try them out.

[coyote]

I prefer drums. It helps that I can play 'em :) It also happens that I don't own or know how to use drum machines or sequencers. I'm stuck *playing* the parts I want.

[JimK]

There is one disadvantage to using loops that hasn't been mentioned yet. The loops are premixed. So, for example, if you find that the kick has too much "boom", too bad. That's one of the reasons I like to use Fruity Loops to generate my loops. I actually generate the loops in parts. For example, I'll put the hi-hat on one track, the kick on another, etc. This way I can EQ and apply effects to only the parts that need it. Also, to clarify, the Drag and Drop Drummer Lite (now called Smart Loops) comes with Guitar Tracks 2. The Pro version (which is what I'm now using) comes with ACIDized loops from the SmartLoops people. The Pro version doesn't have the Drag and Drop front end that came with GT2. I will say that the SmartLoops loops are very good. They're real drums, so the sound is about as good as you're going to get from loops. And since they include single drum sounds, you can use them in apps like Fruity Loops or Hammerhead.

[Franknputer]

That's true, although there are a few tricks you can use, and it's easier to edit a looped part than an entire track. For me, if I had a track with too much boom I'd run it thru T-Racks & try some EQ - conversely, if I wanted more punch maybe some compression, or as I suggested earlier you could add individual samples to punch up a loop. Generating your own loops is good too, if you have the time & facility to do so - I did a song with looping my own guitar playing, which worked out nice. :D

[Tusker]

[quote]Originally posted by franknputer: [b]Generating your own loops is good too, if you have the time & facility to do so [/b][/quote]Yeah, I find Acid great for building your own loops, because it's multi-track with different effects sends for each track. There are some loop construction kit cd's with kicks, snares and high-hats. And then of course you can record your own. Sometimes, you can use a loop to align your kicks and snares, and then pull the loop out. It's all good. :) Jerry

[Dan South]

I like MIDI for its flexibility. Drums are usually the first thing that I program and the last thing that I edit, because I want them to "fit" really well. A recording is only as good as its drum track. Live drums are nice in some instances - not as good in techno styles such as drum and bass - but live parts are less flexible once recorded, i.e. it takes a lot more to edit them if the take isn't perfect. I never got into loops. It's easier for me to build what I want from scratch than to search endlessly for the "perfect" loop.

[Franknputer]

[quote]Originally posted by Dan South: [b]I never got into loops. It's easier for me to build what I want from scratch than to search endlessly for the "perfect" loop.[/b][/quote]So will you do that for me if I stop using loops? :D Whatever works - sometimes I do MIDI, but I like drums played by drummers better - I for one spent too much time endlessly programming to make "perfect" MIDI tracks...