Drum Programming, where do I start?

[surfmonkey]

O.K., I'm tired of sifting through loops that usually don't work with my tracks anyway, so I figure I need to learn how to program my own drums. Where do I start? What kits are you guys using? Are there any good multi velocity kits for the ESX sampler that anyone can recommend?

[halljams]

Originally posted by surfmonkey:

O.K., I'm tired of sifting through loops that usually don't work with my tracks anyway, so I figure I need to learn how to program my own drums. Where do I start? What kits are you guys using? Are there any good multi velocity kits for the ESX sampler that anyone can recommend?

Oh, man just don't even do it at all.

Find someone who can play.

And i am saying that to remind myself as well we've used lots of loops.

I hate them so much i decided to learn to play drums myself.

The world doesn't need anymore programmed drums.

Shit, take your tracks to Super 8 or techchristain or frikkin Phil, he plays good drums.

 

If anything play your parts to loops instead of trying to apply loops to prerecored parts.

 

And if you ask me, which you sort of did by posting, and you take your chances with this shit cause i don't even know what i am gonna say...

...What should happen is that programmed drums should be placed out in orbit and set up as a symmetrical sonic mine-field of digital percussion around the earth, each enclosed in a packet of air.

If you get too close to one, a sensor will pop the bag and there will be just enough air for you to have to listen to 5 seconds of really loud programmed drums.

Really, it's a prototype for a way to direct people in the future, keep them away from space stations etc.

When we have individual space travel. Little roads sided with "like a Virgin"

Oh pardon me, that was Weckel

[aeon]

When I program drums, I like to start with a sweet Ludwig or Gretsch kit and a drummer.

 

OK, joking aside, if you want to use acoustic samples as a basis for your programming, I highly recommend downloading the (free) NSKit, version 7.

 

http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/ns_kit7.html

 

That will give you a good-sounding drumkit to start with, and it has a wide range of velocities and alternate hand hits for the snare. Highly recommended.

 

 

cheers,

aeon

[Billster]

Listen closely to actual drumming, and look for the details that make it breathe - usually the empty space of which there is a surprising amount.

 

Also pay close attention to the W I D E dynamic range of good drumming.

 

And remember, you will only get close. Drum programming is fine for some styles, but disastrous for other styles. Proceed with caution.

[Wooden]

Drumkit from hell are the best for the money, just $100 and it comes with Kontakt Player.

[philbo_Tangent]

Best thing to do is to start by learning to play drums.

 

That'll give you the chops to correctly pick the right drum sounds for the job (and the ability to make your own loops if you can't good canned ones).

 

At least, that's the path I took. As it worked out, I generally now just lay down my own drum tracks instead of trying to squeeze somebody elses groove into my tunes.

[Lee Knight]

I've had good results with programming the kick and snare and using a natural hihat loop. Edit the hat loop to drop out at the correct times..

 

That'll work. The Rads collection has some decent hat loops.

 

But I agree, real drummers!

[Slowly]

Originally posted by Lee Knight:

I've had good results with programming the kick and snare and using a natural hihat loop. Edit the hat loop to drop out at the correct times..

 

That'll work. The Rads collection has some decent hat loops.

 

But I agree, real drummers!

That's what I do. Find a nice beat and subtract. Slowly

[theblue1]

Drum Programming, where do I start?

 

 

I usually start on the 1, unless I'm programming a reggae or other heavily syncopated beat.

[ITGITC]

http://www.tesselar.net/tracy/images/crack.jpg

 

You guys are all a bunch of SMART-ASSES! (like I'm not?)

 

Where's LEE FLIER when ya need her? She LOVES Drum Machines!

[Jedi]

Taking up the Drums has been the single most important thing I've done recently. It has totally changed the game for me. And I still program drums, use loops, make loops, etc. Playing the drums has not only enhanced my ability with drum programming, it has enhanced my songwriting ability and producing skills as well. It just gives you a strong musical foundation, and as far drum programming goes it actually enhances possibilities. I know it sounds crazy, but getting a cheap set of drums can definitely be a good thing for your drum programming.

[Jedi]

As far as drum kit sounds, that is highly subjective, IMO. Infact, you kind of want a unique sound so you really wouldn't need too much info from anybody on what their favorite kit sounds are. Anyway, I've heard good things about BFD as far as Acoustic Drum sounds go. I like RMX, because I like Dirty Hip-Hop sounding drums. Using Recycle in tandem with Reason is a great way to get any drum sound you want. You can load any loop you want into Recycle, Slice it up, and use the individual sounds from that Loop in Reason to make your own beats. VERY, VERY COOL.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Lincoln Ross

[D. Gauss]

get one of these "lee flier approved" boxes:

 

http://www.synthmuseum.com/roland/roltr80801.jpg

 

 

-d. gauss

[Curve Dominant]

I usually like to take a realistic/organic sounding loop, and slice it up in Pro Tools until it it fits my idea of the groove for the song.

 

Then, find phat, punchy sounding kick and snare samples, and drop those onto the loop. Not over every hit mind you, because you want some ghost hits in there. And you want to zoom in and make sure those hits line up just right with what's on the loop, so you don't get that phasey flammy sh*t.

 

The idea is: The loop gives me the realism, particularly in the hihats, and the sampled hits give me the "sack" that a strong beat must have.

 

I'll group those elements together. That done, I've got a basic 2 or 4 measure beat for the track, which can be re-sliced for fills and shuffles and whatnot.

 

Then I'll import a few crash or splash cymbles, and a ride or two, and space those out over the song according to the arrangement's needs.

 

There's plenty of EQ issues involved in this method which need to be adressed for it to work properly.

[theblue1]

In all seriousness...

 

Start with the programmer's rudiments:

 

First a basic four on the floor with a 2-4 backbeat and various hi-hat rhythms, 8ths, 16ths. (Stay on the grid for learning those. There'll be plenty of time to explore feel, later.) You'd be amazed by how much rock, pop, and dance never strays far from a basic four, give or take a stray beat or two.

 

H H H H H H H H
- - S - - - S -
K - K - K - K -  

Above is a fundamental four on the floor kick with backbeat snare on the 2 and 4 and a simple 1/8th note hihat -- as 'displayed' on an 1/8th note grid.

 

 

Then learn how to do some simple fills: snare and tom rolls, various typical hi-hat tricks.

 

Then explore simple rhythmic variations like shuffles (backbeat accent on 3 instead of 2 and 4, to oversimplify). You can also explore the most common alternate time, the waltz (3/4) but you might want to wait a while to get into less common times like 5/4, etc.

 

Next I'd explor swing -- although that could prove to be a deceptively meandering exploration. Swing is approached differently by different people. Some translate basic rhythms into 'swing time' while others conceptualize swing time in terms of elaborate note dotting. I suggest you look at it from both angles and then forget all about the intellectual side of it and just feel it.

 

After swing, I'd study other forms of syncopation, such as reggae beats, 'broken beats' (as in breakbeats or their roots in the often elaboarte and extra-funky/syncopated breaks in 60's and 70's soul and funk.)

 

After that, you might want to post-doc in hand percussion topics and afro and latin rhythms... you can get lost there. Hell, you'll never have to get a job. Oh, wait, this is informal education...

 

 

[Also -- an excellent way to learn is to play with other people's beats in MIDI form.]

[Dan South]

The drum kits that come with EXS24 are good enough to get you started, as are the drum kits in any sample playback type synth. DFH is going to put a huge strain on your computer. Think of it this way: if you can get a cheap drum kit (program) to sound good, then you're definitely getting the hang of it.

 

My suggestions:

 

(1) Keep it simple. You can always add later. Plus, other instruments (bass, rhythm guitar, horn section) can play against a simple drum part to make a full sounding rhythm section.

 

(2) Vary the velocity of each note - use a sequencer's editor or a drum machine's accent paramter - to get a more human feel, i.e. more groove. Try hitting downbeats harder and upbeats softer at first. Vary this if you want a more synchopated pattern.

 

(3) (Advanced) For more juice, add a second or third snare and a second or third kick sound. Lower the velocity on these until they're just barely audible. Sprinkle them in like a bassist's "ghost notes."

 

(4) Try adding effects in a variety of ways. A multiband compressor can effect the kick, snare, and hi hats differently. Try a room reverb on the whole kit, or maybe the whole kit except for the kick drum. Maybe try adding a large hall reverb with a long decay but only send one drum to it, e.g. your rim shot or one of your multiple snare sounds.

 

(5) Listen to records closely and go to see drummers play live. There are a million tricks in drumming. Always keep your ears open. Learn from the experts, i.e. the drummers themselves.

 

Good luck!!!

[surfmonkey]

Thanks for all the suggestions everybody! Unfortunately I broke my hand last weekend, so it will be a few weeks before I can dive back into drum programming.

[Bryson]

Remember, two arms/hands. Unless your the Doobie, or Allman Bros.

 

 

None of that cymbals playing through the Tom fill shit.

[Angelo Clematide]

Originally posted by theblue1:

 

H H H H H H H H
- - S - - - S -
K - K - K - K -  

Then learn how to do some simple fills: snare and tom rolls, various typical hi-hat tricks.

 

Swing is approached differently by different people....

 

...and then forget all about the intellectual side of it and just feel it.

 

THAT's FUN !!!

 

change the beat to:

 

C O C O C O C O
- - S - - - S -
K - K - K - K -  

and you may sell a few copies in europe too