Martin Kantola Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Summer is here, no more frozen sea, so I can finally get into my DIY hydrophone project. Don't expect too many replies, but if anybody has any any kind of experience with underwater recording I'd love to share ideas! If you care to listen, here's: My Very First Underwater Recording Word of warning, don't try to google "hydroponic". Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GY Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Aaahhh yes... hydrophones. After many years of experimenting and recording with them, I have one that is my favorite. It was given to me by the inventor of the Delta submersible. As far as I know it was made by the Navy. It is the size of an 8 ball and even has an "8" on it. I call it the "8 ball". For audio recording, it sounds better than any other I've used... B&K, Reson and the others. Sounds like you captured some humpbacks. They can sound like cows, pigs, chickens and mocking birds. Have fun! GY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Wow, that's so cool! I had heard that for simply sticking microphones in the water (not completely submerging them), some people were using condoms. I mean, please don't go doing this with your ELAM 251 (I guess that'd take the Jumbo Sized Trojans anyway), but I'm just sayin'...some people found that method successful. Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Björn Fröberg Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 If I've understood it correctly, when BBC-folks don't have the right equipment for underwater-recording, they use an ordinary mic inside of a condom. At least that's what it says in Douglas Adams and Mark Carwardine's "Last Chance to See". It's a good book, BTW. - Bob Freebird A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Björn Fröberg Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Ken, you beat me to it. - Bob Freebird A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Geoff Emerick reportedly used a KM54 in a plastic bag, inserted into a water filled, glass milk bottle to try to record a vocal once... something like that... and the head of EMI came in while they were doing it, and they all stood around in front of it trying to hide it from view. EMI was pretty conservative about gear use, and Geoff was fond of pushing the edges a bit... Word of warning, don't try to google "hydroponic". Try this instead: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hydrophone&btnG=Google+Search Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Originally posted by Björn Fröberg: Ken, you beat me to it. But if you look at times posted, both are posts are listed at the same time (5:17 Pacific Standard Time)!! And I type pretty damn fast, so there's a good chance you started before me. We'll tell everyone that you said it first!! Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: Word of warning, don't try to google "hydroponic". Shhhh. Don't even type it or the Google ads to the side will start reflecting that....shhhhhhhhh.... Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kantola Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 GY: I have one that is my favorite. It was given to me by the inventor of the Delta submersible. As far as I know it was made by the Navy. It is the size of an 8 ball and even has an "8" on it.Do you have any brand name for it? Tried googling for it, ended up with a bizarre mix of stuff... Sounds like you captured some humpbacks. They can sound like cows, pigs, chickens and mocking birds. Have fun!http://www.midasstudios.fi/samples/3bnose.jpg These were bottlenose dolphins, here's a pic of them. Wonderful animals with a great sense of humor, got splashed by one of them. Good thing my pre-amp is water resistant... BTW, did you notice that it was a stereo recording? There were some pilot whales around too, got some nice sonar sounds from them. http://www.midasstudios.fi/samples/1pilot.jpg Very excited about the strange world of underwater sound. Will go see some belugas (white whales) soon. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GY Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Wave propgation is so fast under water that stereo is useless. You'd have to have elements separated way too far to get a result. There is no brand name on the "8 ball". It was made for the Navy by the Navy. Reson (Santa Barbara) makes a good general purpose hydrophone that also works pretty well with a good realistic response. What are you recording to? I used to use Sony D-7 and D-8 DATs, but recently switched to the Edirol R-1 compact flash recorder. I do a bit of audio work for some marine research people. GY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Björn Fröberg Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Martin, this hydrophone project seems exciting! Where were you recording this? - Bob Freebird A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GY Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 If you've got a stereo recorder and a mixer, you can try one channel top side with a microphone and one channel hydrophone. A lot of the dolphin vocalizations are 5 KHz and up and a lot of that ends up above the water even when they are submerged. GY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kantola Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 GY wrote: Wave propgation is so fast under water that stereo is useless. You'd have to have elements separated way too far to get a result.You're right of course, I've understood spaced omnis (A-B) are not working well under water unless you REALLY space them... Still, there's the option of doing intensity-difference stereo (XY). I plotted a spectrogram of the left-right transfer function of my recording, shows that there seems to be some life in the stereo image. Try listening with headphones if you have a possibility, would be nice to hear your professional opinion. http://www.midasstudios.fi/samples/hydro.gif There is no brand name on the "8 ball". It was made for the Navy by the Navy. Reson (Santa Barbara) makes a good general purpose hydrophone that also works pretty well with a good realistic response.Oh, Navy secrets, interesting! Could you somehow post a revealing close-up pic of it? I'll look for the Reson stuff, thanks! What are you recording to? I used to use Sony D-7 and D-8 DATs, but recently switched to the Edirol R-1 compact flash recorder. I do a bit of audio work for some marine research people.Well, remember that this was my first recoding EVER, I used a tiny I-RIVER HD-based device (IHP-100) that can record 44.1/16-bit waves. Hoping to be able to buy the Edirol R-4 soon, any other ideas? Björn wrote: Martin, this hydrophone project seems exciting! Where were you recording this?This was recorded in Tarifa, Spain, in the Gibraltar Strait. Sadly, hydrophones are mostly useless here in Finland, not many marine mammals around... Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GY Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Looking at your recording with an editor, I suspect you did some NR processing or something? There's some expander type action happening around 14 KHz and above? The only true stereo that can be perceived is the response difference between your pickup elements and the water rushing or burbling sounds will hit the elements differently, giving the impression of stereo. GY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kantola Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 GY, yes there is some noise reduction on the sample, and the pickups are indeed badly matched on this first prototype. Guess it's all mono if you say so, you are the expert :-) Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GY Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Please... I'm NO expert. Just many years of hit and miss experimentation. I think your recording sounds very good. Here's a photo of 2 of my favorite hydrophones. The first one is an Electro-voice (made in the 70's and discountinuted) and the second is the "8 ball" (showing the other "CIC" writing on it. Hydrophone Photo GY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kantola Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 GY, thanks a million for posting the photos! GY: Please... I'm NO expert. Just many years of hit and miss experimentation.But those years are exactly what make you an expert! Compared to me at least, I've barely gotten my hands wet yet... About the stereo issue, I certainly don't want to argue with you about it. The sensitivity of the hydrophone was only good enough to pick up the curious dolphins that came really close to it. At around 18 seconds into the clip you might hear a whistle that comes from some distance. It could be a very weak stereo effect, and that's a start. Call me an optimist if you like. After all, this was only the very first step to building a "real" hydrophone. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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