Al Rude Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Awesome film. Ed Wolfram was one of my mentors. He's listed in the credits for the pictures he contributed but he was the Cheif Tech there for years. He has some wonderfull war stories. Ed was the guy that used a 15" speaker as a bass drum mike on a Steve Wonder session. [genius!] They did stuff like throwing a thread-bare bar towel over the snare for sound. Put RCA 44's in the bass drum - sideways! [it's the only way to do it without distroying the mic] I've also had the plesure of playing bass for Joe Weaver who appears in the film. There's a lot more to that story... "Music is a life sentence." - K. Parker Rude Recording Al_Rude@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Buckley Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 The documentary is great. It reminds me of all that is missing in todays music industry. Real people playing together. What chemistry! But then she went up to sing.. OMG I had to do a google-take and make sure we still had the same "What If God Was One Of Us" girl... Dunno what her problem was 10 years ago, but in this video she's HOT!Joan always had a great voice even when shes singing a Prince song which is a great song. I never had a prob w/ her so... www.ErnestBuckley.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olhhyperback.com Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Everybody I know from Motown is thrilled about this documentary. One of my great frustrations was that it was impossible for our session musicians to accompany our artists in their live performances. It's a miracle that people are finally getting to see them perform. I do have a few reservations about the producers' editorial agenda. I feel they misrepresented Motown's support for musicians. These were the very finest, highest paid players in Detroit and among the best paid musicians in the world at that time. Likewise the lack of credits was perfectly normal for the mid 1960s with musician (and engineer) credits only becoming common ten years later. Album credits in the mid '60s at Motown would have frequently required listing 50 or more musicians along with 10-15 engineers. They also depicted the company's five year transition to becoming based in Los Angeles as being sudden and unexpected. What actually happened was that the entire WORLD recording industry had relocated to Los Angeles and being based in Detroit had begun to seriously cripple our artists' careers. While the public knew the record label, the company was really more an artist management and music publishing company than a record label in the usual sense. By 1972, various Funk Brothers had also become go-to musicians for most of Stax and Atlantic's releases with a number of them flying all around the country for sessions. It had become very hard for Motown or anybody else to schedule rhythm sessions in Detroit. It become very clear to me by 1970 that if I wanted to continue working in the record business as a career, I needed to leave Detroit. The majority of us had moved before Motown stopped recording in Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrossmusic Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Wow! Thanks Bob for the great insight. With you, Bruce, Dave and others gracing our forum lately this place is definately the place to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Keelan Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Thanks for the insight Bob. The truth shall set us free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh dri Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I posted a thread on here... maybe 2 years ago now when i came across this in a non-descript suburban Australian video store. Im not sure who does the distro here in Aus but they have done well... ive seen this all over the place now. Theres a bonus version out there that apparently has, of all things, a remix thing with Acid sound project... kind of amusing thinking of the underlying theme of the doco being these guys having incredible "lets just do it now" talent! In any case im sure the players and those involved (like Bob above) might get a few chuckles thinking of semi-successful mid-twenties electronic producers sitting around and being absorbed by this movie, and the performances at the end. I ripped it to divx onto the laptop when i toured eastern europe and played it to some Serbian musicians i met (now friends) who seemed to know more about those involved, the era, the output and the general vibe then i did, and i considered myself quite the crate digger... ps, dont stress about me ripping it to divx... i bought the DVD as a local chain round here called JB's did a mass buy and subsequent discount... 10 aussie bucks! Awesome... bias of not its a great bit of schooling and another piece of dialog from one generation to another, which i feel is important in any way shape or form in these "just add water" times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh dri Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I posted a thread on here... maybe 2 years ago now when i came across this in a non-descript suburban Australian video store. Im not sure who does the distro here in Aus but they have done well... ive seen this all over the place now. Theres a bonus version out there that apparently has, of all things, a remix thing with Acid sound project... kind of amusing thinking of the underlying theme of the doco being these guys having incredible "lets just do it now" talent! In any case im sure the players and those involved (like Bob above) might get a few chuckles thinking of semi-successful mid-twenties electronic producers sitting around and being absorbed by this movie, and the performances at the end. I ripped it to divx onto the laptop when i toured eastern europe and played it to some Serbian musicians i met (now friends) who seemed to know more about those involved, the era, the output and the general vibe then i did, and i considered myself quite the crate digger... ps, dont stress about me ripping it to divx... i bought the DVD as a local chain round here called JB's did a mass buy and subsequent discount... 10 aussie bucks! Awesome... bias of not its a great bit of schooling and another piece of dialog from one generation to another, which i feel is important in any way shape or form in these "just add water" times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olhhyperback.com Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Don't forget, WE were all in our teens and 20s. Berry Gordy was the "old experienced guy" in his 30s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireline Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Got in on DVD the day it came out...although disc 1 (the actual movie) is played every other month or so at the house, I tend to study (frame by frame) the "jam sessions" on disc 2... Matter of fact, watched it last night (have a live to disc gig this weekend, always looking for tips) and thought: - where were the guitar amps? - I'm going to FORCE the drummer for this weekends adventure to watch it, to show him that drums are not necessarily too loud for anyone else to sit in the room with... So What ARE We Gonna Do With 8 Tracks...Fire the Arranger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olhhyperback.com Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 There was one combined guitar and bass "amp" that let the musicians set up their own mix of the direct feeds. We used separate feeds that came up in the patchbay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Bob Olhsson: There was one combined guitar and bass "amp" that let the musicians set up their own mix of the direct feeds. We used separate feeds that came up in the patchbay. Yeah Bob, Most rockers find it hard to believe that most all of the Motown guitars and bass were recorded direct through the console and the little amps in the room were so the musicians could hear what was happening. I have the utmost respect for you Mr. Ohlson, but on another post you made a comment regarding the possible editorial bias of the filmmaker; I knew Robert White. One of my mentors is Joe Messina. Sax legend Larry Nozero (who was not one of the Funk Brothers but appeared on many Motown records) recently passed away and He was invited to participate in the concert portion of the DVD and refused. He is most famous for the soprano sax intro on Whats Goin On by Marvin Gaye. Mr. Nozeros refusal to participate in the movie was based on his lack of respect and distrust for anything connected to Motown or Barry Gordy. Though I agree with your assertion that the biz was moving west, the musicians have their stories also and I honor their truths above all else. Motown screwed a lot of people in the motor city. Moving out west was the final slap in the face to many who dealt with them in Michigan. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olhhyperback.com Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Gotta say, 1. I've never heard of Gary Nozero 2. I was in the control room when Eli Fontaine played the intro to "What's Going On." He played the whole track in one take as a rundown and Marvin sent him home. It's a performance I'll never forget as long as I live. What else can I say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireline Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Cool info, Bob. Get a pretty good direct signal, then with the cue mix system let the players set their own levels that won't interfere with any open mics... If I may ask: what type of DI units did y'all use (both for the film and the original eras...) Thank you, sir...for all you've done. So What ARE We Gonna Do With 8 Tracks...Fire the Arranger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrossmusic Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Originally posted by Bob Olhsson: ....I was in the control room when Eli Fontaine played the intro to "What's Going On." He played the whole track in one take as a rundown and Marvin sent him home. It's a performance I'll never forget as long as I live. In an excerpt from the book "What's Going On" by Ben Edmunds arranger Van DePeitte also reflects back on that fateful session. .....Van DePitte says that Gaye wanted to stay away from anything resembling a standard Motown beat. The arranger brought in veteran big band drummer Chet Forest, augmented by a phalanx of percussionists: Jack Ashford on tambourine, Eddie Brown on bongos and congas, Earl Derouen on congas and Jack Brokensha on vibes and assorted percussive toys. To complete the unusual feeling, the artist/producer was down in the Snakepit playing piano and leading the rhythm section himself. For his first self-produced single, Gaye was leaving nothing to chance. Except two of the record's signature features happened almost entirely by chance. The lovely alto sax figure that opens the record, which Van DePitte has heard at least eight musicians claim credit for, was the work of Eli Fontaine. Or, more accurately, his warm-up. When Fontaine had played enough to feel comfortable, he signaled that he was ready for a take. Marvin told him to go home; they already had what they needed. The confused saxophonist tried to explain that he had just been goofing around. "Well," Marvin replied, "you goof exquisitely. Thank you." I guess that says a lot about the power of spontaneity and saving that first take. Larry Nozero did sessions for Motown as well and was a respected jazz player in the Detriot area and beyond especially amongst other musicians. http://larrynozero.com/bio.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by Bob Olhsson: Gotta say, 1. I've never heard of Gary Nozero <<<<< And perhaps he never heard of you either. I know I hadn't until I read some of your posts here.>>>> 2. I was in the control room when Eli Fontaine played the intro to "What's Going On." He played the whole track in one take as a rundown and Marvin sent him home. It's a performance I'll never forget as long as I live. <<<<< I knew and had the opportunity to work with Eli Fontaine. I knew David Van DePitte as well, in fact at one point in my career he was my manager. The reference to Mr. Nozero and "Whats Goin' On" came from his obituary in the Detroit Free Press. >>>>> What else can I say? <<<<< Eli Fontaine and Larry Nozero are listed in the credits on the DVD. I don't recall seeing your name listed, but I will take your word for it.>>>> Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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