Marso Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 If you had to rank the best vocal mics nowadays what would be your 5 choices? for what reason? Regardless of price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Lander Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 There are too many that I've not tried so I really can't give a ranking but; I'm very partial to the Marshall Electronics MXL 1000 hand held condenser mic. I have a pair and use one for vocals & the other to mic the acoustic guitar. Works great for both applications and recording too. I also have one of their studio condenser mics & it's nice too. As to dynamics, I like and use the Carvin CM 68. It's been a real work horse & I like it better than the Shure SM 58's. I also use Marshall Electronics' Fox & some CAD mics. I played a private party a couple of months ago & they had AKG mics in their PA setup & they worked well too. Another thing is, the condensers are much more sensitive and you may very well encounter more feedback problems. I have to enable the 20db cut on my Carvin power mixer to keep things workable with the condensers. I don't have to do that with the dynamics. What you really have to do is try as many as you can & find the ones that work well with your voice & your system. Some have presence boost's built in & if the freq. is not right for your voice it won't help anything & may hurt. Have fun finding the one, or ones, that you want. I never done that before... Our Joint "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 The best ones today (irregardles of price) are, IMO, the same as they were 20 years ago: 1. Telefunken ELA M 250 / 251 E. 2. Neumann Longbody U-47 / 48 3. Neumann M-49 4. Neumann U-67 (IMO, very under-rated) 5. AKG C-12 These are the "classic kings" of vocal mics. If they're stock, great. If they're modded or restored by someone GOOD (three people come to mind - Klaus Heine, Stephen Paul, and Tracey Korby), that's great too. Don't get me wrong - there's lots of very nice new mics available nowdays. IMO, we're really living in "the golden age of the microphone" simply because there's all the classic choices still available (allbeit at HUGE prices), but also some very nice "new" mics, such as Soundelux, Korby, Lawson, Rode, BLUE, etc. etc. etc. For those on a budget, there's many great choices available: Rode, Studio Projects, A/T, etc. But you asked what the "best vocal mics" and said to forget about the cost... IMO, the five I've listed are the best. Here's some reasons why: 1. 251: Take all the best features of a C-12 and a U-47 and stick them in one mic. Incredible top end (HF), similar to the C-12 but not quite as bright. Upper mids that really compliment vocals. More bottom than the C-12, but not as huge in the lows as the "depth bomb" U-47. 2. U-47: Can you say "Beatles"? I knew that you could. Chances are, if you're listening to a Beatles record, you're hearing one of these mics. HUGE warm sound. Tubes (VF-14's) have not been made since BEFORE WWII, and are as scarce (and expensive - $2K for a good one) as hen's teeth. 3. M-49: More patterns (and remotely selectable) than the U-47, with a different head grille, tube and capsule. Still has that classic "Neumann tone". IMO, probably the best all around Neumann ever built. Very versatile. Shines on female vocals. 4. U-67: Doesn't command the same prices as some of the other Neumann tube classics such as the U-47 and the M-49 - probably because they were made for a much longer period of time, and in greater numbers, and were discontinued much more reciently. Yes, the U-87 (solid state) is based on this (tube) design, but it never captured the warmth and magic of this classic. Listen to what GM did with one at contact distance to Linda Ronstadt's mouth! :eek: This is what U-87/ai and TLM103 owners wish their mics sounded like (weather they realize it or not). Also make great drum overhead mics. 5. C-12: Pastel top end tone for days. Smooooooth and silky. Great detail, but as I said, smoothed out sort of like a pastel drawing. Dreamy tone. This mic, (and the OEM'ed by AKG Tele 251) epitomize the "AKG sound". Different from Neumann, but neither "sound" is better or worse... both have their proponents, and in many cases, what is ideal with one singer or in one situation, is not going to be perfect in another. But when it comes to the VERY BEST, these mics have stood the test of time and countless incredible recordings to become the much prized and loved classics that they are today. There's a simple reason for that, and it can be defined with just one word: SOUND. That's my take. I look forward to reading other people's views. [img]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/navigator/usa.gif[/img] Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zircon Skye Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 Phil, Thank you for your thougtful and insightful reply. I doubt if many of us have the breadth of experience to comment in such depth and appreciate your comments. Two questions if you have the time. Would you rate the Manley Gold Reference as comparable to the C12 or others in this group as a vocal mic? Who among you group of 3 or others would you recommend to service a vintage M-49? Thank you. Zircon Skye [url=http://www.zirconskye.com]www.zirconskye.com[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 well it also depends on the music. while i'm a huge fan of 47's, 49's, and 251's (my old boss got his at a garage sale for 20 bucks!), sometimes for a rock vocal, a shure 57 or 58 is all ya need. mick jagger often did vocals on a 58. rumor has it, stevie nicks won't sing unless it's a sennheiser 441. make do with what you got and what sounds best on the singer. however, any of the classics listed above, if you can afford them, are amazing microphones. -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marso Posted January 30, 2002 Author Share Posted January 30, 2002 pokeefe, thanks for your response, these are very useful insights. I am working with a singer who wants a lot, I mean a lot, of top end in his voice (without the harshness of course and still some with bottom) and the mic that I will use will be a very important link in my chain. Sadly, I don't have any of the mics you've mentionned.(but I will try very hard to fix that!) I have at my disposal a M149, a SolidTube, C12 VR, tlm 103, tlm 170, U87 and C414. They're all new. I also have as pre, Avalon MK11 with eq 2055, Focusrite Isa 215 and Amek 9098. (No I'm sorry, I don't have Manleys, APIs or GML pre.) The most high end happy would be the M149 imo but I have to be careful with eq because it tend to sound brittle.(especially with ptools) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 marso, if you can't get a great vocal out of the gear you listed above, then something is not right. that's more than enough stuff to do the job. try the age old process of setting them all up at once and having the vocalist sing the song down moving from mic to mic after every 2 lines or so, listen back and pick what ya like best... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marso Posted January 30, 2002 Author Share Posted January 30, 2002 Hey don't get me wrong here, I AM getting a good vocal sound with that gear. (or acc. or drums, for that matter) I was curious to know what was the 5 mics people liked the most for vocal. I don't have any of the classic ones and I never had the chance to use them personnaly so I wanted to get some knowledge. I would like to get one of these old mics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R. Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Some great mics listed. (Marshall?!?) Got to add my recent favorite - RCA 77dx. Now that's smooooth. :) :cool: :) :cool: :) -David R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryrobinett Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Phil, Great list and comments. I wish I had half of those mics. We do have the U67 and I generally use that on vocals. But I've been favoring our Blue Mouse. I love that mic. I wish I had a C12. But I have to agree with DavidR. I recently discovered our RCA77 Ribbon. What a great, smooth mic. I haven't had to opportunity to use it on vocals yet but will soon. All the best, Henry Robinett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Zircon Skye: [b]Phil, Would you rate the Manley Gold Reference as comparable to the C12 or others in this group as a vocal mic? Who among you group of 3 or others would you recommend to service a vintage M-49? Thank you. Zircon Skye [url=http://www.zirconskye.com]www.zirconskye.com[/url] [/b][/quote] Manley's Gold Reference is a great mic. Certainly a modern day classic. As far as the M-49, my first choice, assuming you can wait for him (he's eternally backed up because he's so in demand) would be Klaus Heine at German Masterworks in Oregon. [img]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/navigator/usa.gif[/img] Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by d gauss: [b]well it also depends on the music. while i'm a huge fan of 47's, 49's, and 251's (my old boss got his at a garage sale for 20 bucks!), sometimes for a rock vocal, a shure 57 or 58 is all ya need. mick jagger often did vocals on a 58. rumor has it, stevie nicks won't sing unless it's a sennheiser 441. make do with what you got and what sounds best on the singer. however, any of the classics listed above, if you can afford them, are amazing microphones. -d. gauss[/b][/quote] Absolutely!!! I've used 58's on thing many times when it was the "right" mic. The 441 story is true. Several artists have used 57's. Stevie Wonder used a RE20 on some of his classic hits. USE WHAT SOUNDS BEST for the vocalist and "sound" you're after is "rule #1" IMO. BTW, I'm jealous of your boss'es $20 251! :eek: And I thought -I- got a great deal on mine - I got a pair from a church, who had had them in their attic for years and didn't know what they had. I was honest and told them, and told them I wanted to buy ONE, and gave them some places where they could get them appraised. They came back to me a week later and told me their board had decided -I- should have them. We ended up exchanging some sound system design work for the pair (about $3,000 worth of work) and a couple of recording sessions. Not a bad deal at all, but $20?!? :eek: [img]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/navigator/usa.gif[/img] Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Marso: [b]pokeefe, thanks for your response, these are very useful insights. I am working with a singer who wants a lot, I mean a lot, of top end in his voice (without the harshness of course and still some with bottom) and the mic that I will use will be a very important link in my chain.[/b] Yes, the mic WILL be an important link. Hmm, I'm not sure what you (or your client) define as "a lot, I mean a lot" of top end, but too much is probably going to cause you problems no matter WHAT mic you use. Sibilance is sure to rear its ugly head... [b] Sadly, I don't have any of the mics you've mentionned.(but I will try very hard to fix that!) I have at my disposal a M149, a SolidTube, C12 VR, tlm 103, tlm 170, U87 and C414. They're all new. I also have as pre, Avalon MK11 with eq 2055, Focusrite Isa 215 and Amek 9098. (No I'm sorry, I don't have Manleys, APIs or GML pre.)[/b] You may not have some of the mics on my list, but you have a VERY nice little collection at your disposal. The TLM170 and Solidtube are probably "out" (both are likely to be too dark for your intended purpose). I'd toss the M149, C12VR, C-414 (WHICH C-414? A TL?), U87 and TLM103 up and see what works best, as D Gauss recommended. The only difference I'd suggest is trying them ALL AT ONCE - IOW, put the grilles as close as possible to each other and record on to several tracks at once. Then compare. What would I reach for in your situation if I didn't have the time to compare? Probably the VR. It's definitely a different mic than a Vintage C12, but it's still a pretty good mic, and good top end. Now on to the preamps. The mic / preamplifier interaction can make significant differences as well. So you will definitely want to experiment with your mic / preamp pairings. My first choice from your list? Probably the 9098. [b] The most high end happy would be the M149 imo but I have to be careful with eq because it tend to sound brittle.(especially with ptools)[/b] I'm not a huge M149 fan... but that's just, as always, a matter of personal taste. As far as EQ, maybe you should consider renting a good outboard EQ... maybe a Pultec or a 1073. I usually find GOOD analog EQ to be less "harsh" than some of the plug ins... but the Bomb Factory stuff is pretty darn close, to my ears, to the "originals". Best of luck to you with your project, and please let me know how it goes for you. [img]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/navigator/usa.gif[/img] Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by henryrobinett: [b]Phil, Great list and comments. I wish I had half of those mics. We do have the U67 and I generally use that on vocals. But I've been favoring our Blue Mouse. I love that mic. I wish I had a C12. But I have to agree with DavidR. I recently discovered our RCA77 Ribbon. What a great, smooth mic. I haven't had to opportunity to use it on vocals yet but will soon.[/b][/quote] Yup, I love ribbons too. I've got a few of 'em - a couple of RCA's, a Shure 315 and a Beyer M160. I like 'em all! :D I've had mixed experiences with the BLUE mics. I don't really care for the Dragonfly at all, and the Blueberry is okay, but the "upper end" stuff has impressed me a lot. I like the Mouse (in the limited time I had with one, it reminded me somewhat of a U47), and the Bottles are really nice. I'm looking forward to hearing a "Baby Bottle". It certainly is priced right for the budget market, and I'm hoping it sounds good. I don't have a '67, but if and when I pick up a vintage Neumann, that's what I'll probably get. I can't see getting a M-49 (which I'd LOVE to have!) for the price they cost. I'd rather just rent one when I absolutely have to have one for a job. [img]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/navigator/usa.gif[/img] Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marso Posted January 31, 2002 Author Share Posted January 31, 2002 Pokeefe, I've compare the isa 215 and the avalon M2 mkll and the result is (in a nutshell): Focusrite has more lower mids, a rounder sound. Avalon is a little more open. Usually I get very good results with either of them and a tiny bit of comp. Here, I'm fighting with the guy to keep us both happy, very funny. I did'nt really consider the 9098 but I sure will. I usually use it with kiks and snares though. I too like the c12vr btw. I'm curious, do you ever use just a strip of your console or always outboard gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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