Are You Giving Yourself the Chance to Live?

[Hound Dog]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

 

"The trick with us though is to figure out which elements of our nature are essential and which aren't. That leaves a lot of room for growth and change, but that most elemental part of your nature can't be changed or destroyed at will, although it will grow and change some naturally over time. So I do think there is "overwhelming intrinsic value" as you put it, in preserving that part of yourself and we should do whatever is necessary to find and nurture it. Neither of which is usually easy.

 

Now there's no point getting too attached to the "leaves" in our natures because they're transitory. As we grow and change we cast them off. The "branches" might be a bit closer to home, and losing one might be more painful than the leaves, but it's still healthy for them to be pruned at times. [smile] Only the most fundamental part of us is relatively constant, and necessary to you being "you".

 

Where I think we get hung up (and this is where Buddhism is a big help) is that we can start thinking the "leaves" are really branches or the branches are really the trunk. We can start obsessing over every leaf as if it really matters all that much and as if we can control the fact that it's going to fall off and blow away. [big Grin] This is artifice... and possibly obsession. Preoccupation with things of no consequence, at the expense of the real deal... the roots, the trunk. But of course if you don't know you have roots or a trunk, or what kind of tree you are, the leaves appear to be awfully important. We all have "leaves," and maybe flowers and fruits, and they may be beautiful and interesting, while the roots might appear to be the dark ugly bits that are buried under a lot of dirt [big Grin] ... but if we don't do the work of finding our essential nature we're doomed to obsessing over things that are fleeting and won't make us happy anyway. Not to say we can't enjoy them, but we can't get too attached to them in the long run."

 

I really hear you on this one, Lee.

 

I have taken notice lately of how many of the things around me are just "extras". Someone else wrote about how we have so much extra time now compared to other eras. But we also have alot of extra stuff to fill that time. I've got more CD's and videos than I can ever watch and listen to in several years. The kids have more toys than they know what to do with. There are coutless websites to visit and more cable channels than I really "need". Without stepping out of my house, I can pretty much fill up my time. And the rest of the world is waiting outside the door.

 

I think that alot of people, me included, who start to think of life as a rat race are really just victims of some really good sales efforts. (Some people might even call us "suckers"). We believe the hype that we really need that new computer program and either our life will be much better with it or miserable without it. I just used computer program, but it could really be anything; car, crock pot, camera, carpet, shoes, effect pedal, etc. Then there is the stuff we go for just because it's neat or is cool or somebody just gives it to you.

 

Even if one has the money and space to buy and store tons of stuff, does one also have the time to use it and care for it? My wife and I have slowly started to change. We find ourselves saying "no" even though it is very hard to do. We have begun to value you our time more and not committ it carelessly. Just like so many of us abuse "junk food" many of us abuse "junk time". Hey, that might just become the new buzz phrase.

 

And of course it is up to each person to determine what is junk. As for myself, I have become very aware of how much TV time is spent. Here is how it would often go. I would plan to do something such as clean the house, write out bills, etc. I would decide to turn on the TV for some background fill. Then I would start running through the channels. The next thing you know I've either found myself running through all of the channels over and over again searching but not finding or I find something cool and start watching it. I determined that for me this was a bad way to spend my time.

 

I think many of us are victims of spending "junk time". We do battle with it every day as so many marketers are competing for our money AND time.

[Jimbroni]

As I see it you're spreading incorrent information about your own belief system while simultaneously behaving with anger in the form of needing to castigate me on the subject, greed in choosing to profess sole ownership of said belief system, and ignorance in presuming to know what I know about Buddhism based on the scant references I've made here. You are poisoning your own beliefs

Thats Rich.

 

To say I hate Buddhism, because it means reducing your humantity into nothingness is a pretty strong statement, IMO. Its all good, probably just mispeak goin on.

[the stranger]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Oh and Chip... I also think there are books, works of art, relationships and other things you will stumble across at various points in your life which will just "resonate" with the essential part of you. That is, it's not as if you "learned" some particularly philosophy from a book or another person which you then forcibly graft onto yourself, but it was something you realized that you had already unconsciously felt on some level but hadn't found a way to express it or make it tangible. In that case it's not artifice at all, it might just be something that leads to the next step in the "ever unfolding saga" of your essential self. Of course the reverse is also true that you could read a book that someone else found inspiring and get nothing from it at all... it just doesn't resonate.

[the stranger]

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

I think that alot of people, me included, who start to think of life as a rat race are really just victims of some really good sales efforts.

True, but people are conditioned for this from birth by society, schools, parents, and so forth.

People are taught from the get go that this "rat race" is the path to success and happiness. People are given two choices in their formative years...play the game or not. And society rewards those who play the game and outcasts the ones who don't. This isn't always the case, but for the majority, this is true.

 

And what about the existentialist who views everything in the physical as an artifice?

[Wewus432]

Yeah, what about that?

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by The Stranger:

And what about the existentialist who views everything in the physical as an artifice?

Well that's what I dislike about a lot of spiritual doctrines. Everything is focused on the afterlife, because the worldly life is artifice, it's a "lower state of being" than some purely spiritual form, etc. I can understand why a lot of religions and philosophies teach this, because in a lot of cases life was pretty unbearable for a large percentage of the population (still is in a lot of places), and the afterlife as a reward for hard work and a life well lived seemed like the only thing worth hoping for.

 

However, I reject that idea wholesale, or at the very least, find it irrelevant. That is, on a certain level perhaps all physical reality is artifice, but I don't think it's artifice any more than art is. It's like this: you write a song. In a sense it's "artifice" because it's intangible, and you made something exist that didn't before. But in another sense it's not artifice at all because it's a reflection of your spirit. It's the manifestation of your deepest passion. How is that artifice? That's bullshit. That IMO is why we're here... to make manifest the things that we find most beautiful and stir us most deeply. Whether that means writing songs or doing carpentry or being a spouse and/or parent... whatever it is, if it's done from your soul it can't be artifice.

 

I find it strange how people can worship a deity and acknowledge that we all (along with the earth itself and all the other creatures we share it with) are God's creation and then have such a low regard for that creation, and pine for a life "beyond" the physical. Instead, if we believe in God we should regard ourselves as part of God's "symphony," created out of eons' worth of love and hard work, and each focus on learning to perform our parts in the stunningly beautiful way he must have intended.

[the stranger]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

I find it strange how people can worship a deity and acknowledge that we all (along with the earth itself and all the other creatures we share it with) are God's creation and then have such a low regard for that creation, and pine for a life "beyond" the physical.

"What are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchers of God?

[Hound Dog]

Originally posted by The Stranger:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

I think that alot of people, me included, who start to think of life as a rat race are really just victims of some really good sales efforts.

True, but people are conditioned for this from birth by society, schools, parents, and so forth.

People are taught from the get go that this "rat race" is the path to success and happiness. People are given two choices in their formative years...play the game or not. And society rewards those who play the game and outcasts the ones who don't. This isn't always the case, but for the majority, this is true.

 

And what about the existentialist who views everything in the physical as an artifice?

I play the rat race, too. And I feel much of it is necessary to get ahead. But I think sometimes we get so involved playing the game that we lose sight of the real goals of the game and set ourselves up with complete time wasters and garbage activities. I used to be obsessive about proofreading everything I wrote to great detail. It started as a good habit and I'm sure I reaped benefits from it. But after a while I found myself spending too much time proofing things that weren't that important. A letter or proposal to my regional director or congressman warrants such detail, but what really matters in a note to my paper delivery guy? I had to tell myself that in some cases, its ok just to get it done and not worry about perfection. Letting that thought lead to other things, it's OK if I do not see tonight's episode of "24". My friends will be up on it and if I do not see it, I may not feel as included. But a year from now that will not matter. It's OK if I don't have the latest Digitech GNXwhatever. I CAN be very happy without it. I see alot of people searching for bigger upscale houses because their friends have moved into one. They think that their house represents their success. And while they are working hard to pay for that house, they are putting nothing away for kids college, retirement or even life insurance. A house or home is shelter and is essential. But the style and amenities are just the leaves that Lee spoke of. They can come and go.

[halljams]

You or anyone you know could get nailed by a Semi tommorow.

There is no "Ahead". Just be happy.

What that means(to be happy) may take a few years to figure out but i think it is worth spending a few years thinking about.

Face death now rather than later. It'll clear alot of things up.

Much of society becomes real stupid real quick.

To me it felt like graduating to a new school or something.

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

I see alot of people searching for bigger upscale houses because their friends have moved into one. They think that their house represents their success. And while they are working hard to pay for that house, they are putting nothing away for kids college, retirement or even life insurance. A house or home is shelter and is essential.

The thing is, I've always thought to myself "ok, I don't make a lot of money, I have no real "job security" (but who really does these days?), no retirement, etc... BUT - I've bought my car, I've bought a house, I'm eating every day. In my sense of things I'm doing "ok". The problem is that today "ok" isn't really enough, doing "ok" is considered "crazy, irresponsible". I'd like to have a nicer house, a nicer car, more emenities, etc... but what's more important is not subsuming my life to a Faceless Doctrine. That's important *to me*, and while I've thought that that is something a few other people understood, apparently that's not the case.

[Lee Flier]

Well I understand it perfectly. I have no desire for a nicer house or car or whatever... I managed to find the perfect house and vehicle for ME, CHEAP. If it's not yuppie enough for other people's tastes, I couldn't care less. I know what they mean to ME: FREEDOM from the rat race, and I still have all the space I need to do what makes me happy. I have a studio in my basement, a big yard for a garden, and my 1990 van is paid for, in great shape and my band can tour in it. What the hell else should I want?

[aeon]

I understand it, Chip, but I just haven't posted to the thread until now, because the original post resonated in my head like a big brass bell, I thought about it for days, and I couldn't think of what to say because I had so much to say, and I couldn't make it coherent enough to read.

 

And my feelings of sadness kept getting in the way too. I'd try writing a response and I'd just get teary-eyed.

 

 

be well,

aeon

[AudioMaverick]

Chip,

 

Life has been keeping me busy with various things, lately. I have totally missed this thread. I did see it, yesterday. But, I kept getting interrupted. Then, my faithful P3 that I use for Internet and basic work went senile, and passed away. And, I had to come up with a replacement system to continue. So, life goes on, as it does for all of us. I am going to drop a little diatribe of a middle-aged man... me. I hope the ramblings find a place for your ponderings and possibly ease your mental anguish...

 

First, the working to live living to work notation... The late 19th century was the first time in American history that many people could even hope to be in a position to actually live to work, financially or otherwise. Humans just never had the luxury, except for a select few. That phrase has a second meaning, which lends itself to being a slave to one's work. This has been evident throughout history, regardless of geographics. We are seeing it, today. We saw it in the early 1900s, which drove the development of the worker's union. People were, as they always have, been exploited for the gain of a select few. That being said, America is also the first nation to instill in its people the desire to live a lazy and recreational life. We have have recent followers (like Japan). In the last 120 years, industry has shown us more and more time saving inventions, some of which evolve with time and technology. But, we as a people don't seem to be getting to that point of euphoria that we has been driven into our minds to expect.

 

I have been watching as technology has kept adding little things to our lives. We can drive into line and within a few minutes posses groceries, a bag of prepared food, a filled prescription, and other things. In some buildings, we don't have to worry about turning a light on or off, or even flush our own toilets. These creations are not usually free, either. We are buying up this stuff with whatever monies we achieve. It was easier to save money in the 1940s or 1960s. To be fair, a great many of these innovations have undoubtedly made human lives better. But, many of them seem to indicate to me that our purpose for living is being slowly undermined. Without things to do, how can we have purpose? The desire to posses money or things should never be the drive, but the reward. The desire should be to make a difference within whatever community you revolve, be it your neighborhood or your nation.

 

That old joke of male menopause has some level of reality to it. As most men approach their late 40s and early 50s, a chemical/hormonal change happens. A major side effect is the emotional change of inadequacy. It is not uncommon to start to feel like one has no meaningful purpose in life, and things are passing them by. Everyone who lives long enough has to deal with these emotions at some time before age 65. And, the ones who deal with these demons better cope with them by getting out and being active. This is something most of us are doing less and less of. Doing something for the community is highly recommended. Volunteering is a great thing to do. The worst thing to do is to stay cramped up at home watching TV or typing on the keyboard. This is what most us tend to do.

 

As for me... Yes, I am in my mid-40s. I recently left a job that kept me in front of computers all day long. Then, I'd come home and either work on my own, or stare at the TV. I have engrained this life style into myself over the last 20 years. And, it began to haunt me. As my health deteriorated, the doctors added medications to my daily routine. And, there were side effects. I slowly put myself into a rut where I went from home to work, and back. It was a rare thing to step outside for recreation of any kind. And, the job evolved into a 24/7, on-call and time consuming entity. But, I kept drudging on for the almighty dollar and an elusive status. Late last year, I hit the wall of health. I literally broke down and could no longer be productive. As I was recuperating, realized that I was going to die trying to keep a bunch of computers working. And, for what? Who was going to sit back and occasionally remember me for the wonderful job I did keeping a server or workstation running? And, for how long? These machines break down and become obsolete. They get retired, replaced, or upgraded. In who's life did I really make a notable difference?

 

As you may have guessed, I am no longer doing that. I walked away from a bustling urbanite existence in Southern California. The house I left was in far better condition than the one I have now. The community I am in now is much more laid back and slow than the metropolis I left. I don't have to work so hard to achieve a day's pay. And, I have time to go outside and do things with my dogs, or volunteer for a community event.

 

What am I getting at? You have to find a way to appease your well being, without vanity. You can't always choose how you want to be remembered. You can make a difference in your life and others. And, get outside to recharge the mind once in a while. Will you be noticed at the grocery store? I bet you occasionally hear someone saying something like, That's Chip over there. He helped me learn to read sheet music and play. That is what is all about, I think. Whether you move a mountain, or help someone scale it. Everyone who is born is going to live for an unspecified and seemingly short time. It doesn't make sense to me to spend it wondering why I'm not as good as another person. I'd rather spend it knowing I did something productive and worthy of remembrance, whether it be for my immediate family or a nation. It doesn't matter how big, but that I did.

 

Now, it is time for me to grab some lunch and enjoy that sunshine that has been so elusive in this region, lately. Hope this helps in one way or another...