No Compression

[KenElevenShadows]

You know, for the longest time, I used to gain-ride when doing vocals.

 

But I did this because my compressor sucked. It just sounded way better to move the fader up and down I was recording someone's vocals!

 

Turns out that this was actually a good way of doing things in general. Sometimes I would answer someone's compression question by saying, "The best compression is a finger on a fader."

 

If you had a vocalist who worked the mic, pulling in and out depending on how loud/high the notes were, etc., and you were gain-riding, you'd never even think about using a compressor. It'd be perfect already.

 

And one of the nice things about a DAW although it's more time-consuming is the ability to automate the "fader" to raise the volume in and out. I do this almost out of habit now because that's just the way I learned when recording analog. And it sounds really great that way still.

[where02190]

With 24 bit recording, less emphasis is needed to keep the level in a small optimum window. I'll often use a slight bit of compression on the way in, 2:1 2-3db of max reduction, as a replacement for what I used to be able to do by hitting the analog tape harder, however I don't ride tracks on the way in. I manually draw volume envelopes, which allows me to visually accomodate dynamis when necessary on a case by case basis. This way, I don't have to second guess the vocalist lets say, but can, once I've got the keeper comped track, then go in and draw the volume automation as needed to give the track a smooth, natural sound while controlling unruley dynamics.

 

I find it amazing that with the ability to easily draw automation in any DAW app, that engineers are using plugin compressors so much. there are very few plugin comps that I find to sound at all decent, and none tht compare the a hardware comp.

 

Once I have the envelopes drawn, I'll use the console fader automation to smooth out things againt the entire mix.

 

the combination fo the two has helped me engineer mixes that my clients are very hapy with and have gotten many excelletn reviews, and very few bad ones. (Hey, ya can't please all the peeps all the time, right?)

[KenElevenShadows]

I am trying to use the plug-in compressors for applications such as shaping (adding more attack to something, for example). For vocals, I don't use compressors much anymore.

[Tedly Nightshade]

That stuff where trailing-off vocals hide behind other instruments just doesn't happen to you when you track the vocal to the same mics as the band. Man it's nice to have to vocal stay right where it ought to be, at a much wider range of dynamics! A big reason why I haven't done anything multitrack in quite a while.

 

Upward compression is a really cool thing. It makes the quietest parts louder and leaves the peaks alone, pretty much. There are details on this in Bob Katz's book, Mastering Digital Audio.

 

Good discussion!

[Barandine Vondenger]

okay I got to get a few ready for de radio shows and(ahahaha)potential listeners number in the many thousands.

I HAVE TO COMPRESS so the kiddies will hear it. anything less than RADIO STANDARD will be dismissed by many potential listeners.

So My question is after i get a final mmix do I compress the soul out of it?

if so do I mix it any differently to accomodate the compression rates??.

I have the coolest ever VST compressor plug-ins."CLASSIC" Totally preset for whatever phase I'm on EXCEPT a radio compression rate.

somebody may have mentioned 20 to 1 for radio. But how hot must it be>

most of my stuff is so low in relative volume compared to all them othre songs that they just blow my stuff out of the water.

So I must compete..

HOW?

[LawrenceF]

I didn't realize that little public thought of mine would start this huge discussion. To answer a question I read earlier about "chasing vocal ups and down with the fader"...

 

After some experimentation it seems the best way to accomplish what I want is to first listen to the track through a couple of times and identify any parts that just drop out, like when the last word of a vocal phrase fades away or the vocalist goes soft. I've been treating those with the level automation in the daw. What I'll do is go in and go up from that point, reversing the fading word or phrase by using an equal angle of upward volume gain.

 

This is really easy in the daw because you can zoom in and accurately match the reverse angle where the word or phrase is fading out. This is a simple two or three point automation curve. I've also started to de-ess in the same manner, zooming in to the offending sibilance and reducing that part by 3-6 db or whatever sounds best.

 

Again, this is time consuming but it works well. Once it's done it's done.

 

After those very obvious things are fixed I then turn to fader automation on the console and ride the levels to get the feeling and level I want. The thing is, drawing daw automation is much more accurate than using your fingers on a fader but it's much harder to automate a "feeling" by drawing it in. It's just not spontaneous enough.

 

As the song rolls you can get into it and play the faders like a musical instrument. That's hard to do with stop & start daw pencil-point automation. But for making precise moves the daw automation cannot be beat.

 

This method is working pretty well so far. I'll see how it goes in the long term. It does sound much "bigger" to me already.

 

Lawrence

[KenElevenShadows]

Gainriding = intelligent compression.

Compressor = unintelligent compression.

[LawrenceF]

Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

Gainriding = intelligent compression.

Compressor = unintelligent compression.

Ken11 =

 

Lawrence

[phaeton]

quote:Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

Gainriding = intelligent compression.

Compressor = unintelligent compression. [big Grin]

 

Ken11 = [Cool]

 

Lawrence

Yep. In this forum, Ken goes to 11.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Lawrence, Bob Olhsson, who used to ride the fader for vocalists at Motown, says it's about breathing with the vocal. Which is a pretty natural thing to do. You'll know when you have plenty o' air and when you're trailing off.

 

Arell, uncompressed audio fed into a radio processor will come across louder and clearer. Read Bob Katz's book for details from Robert Orban, who designs these Orban radio processors that do a whole lot of the work out there.

[KenElevenShadows]

Originally posted by phaeton:

quote:Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

Gainriding = intelligent compression.

Compressor = unintelligent compression. [big Grin]

 

Ken11 = [Cool]

 

Lawrence

Yep. In this forum, Ken goes to 11.

Thanks! Um, what about other forums?

[phaeton]

Thanks! Um, what about other forums?

 

It completely depends upon their Ken. Things like Vintage, Revision History, bolt-on modifications and any outboard enhancements all play a part, as well as proper Ken maintenance (see my last post) and regular cleaning. Then of course, you must have an experienced operator who knows the right way to work the....

 

Oh look, a nickel!

[KenElevenShadows]

LOL!