Yamaha P225 Midi question

[Paul Henry]

I really bonded with this particular board today (P225) but am I wrong in thinking that it does not have USB MIDI ?

 

Thanks

Paul

[ElmerJFudd]

The specs say it has USB to Host which suggests it does send MIDI to your computer.  
 

The manual 

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/7/2143477/p225_p223_en_om_a0.pdf#page8

 

also says the USB to Host does both audio and midi.  

[AnotherScott]

I've never heard of any keyboard with a USB "to host" (square-ish USB-B) connector that didn't send MIDI over that that connector... it's basically the reason they started adding that port to begin with. The question was whether it was class compliant or required installation of a manufacturer-supplied driver, but that hasn't been an issue (for MIDI) in some time. Sending audio as well is the variable now.

[Paul Henry]

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted to know if I could use this the Yamaha to push note info to my other boards if I wanted.

[AnotherScott]

13 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted to know if I could use this the Yamaha to push note info to my other boards if I wanted.

 

In most cases, not directly. That connector has to connect to a host. Usually that's a computer (or similar, e.g. iPad), which in turn can route the MIDI to any other attached keyboards. Though there are a handful of keyboards that, themselves can act as hosts. There are also standalone host boxes you can use.

[stoken6]

11 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted to know if I could use this the Yamaha to push note info to my other boards if I wanted.

That simple question involves some nuances. With USB there's always a host and a device. Some keyboards can act as a host, but the P225 can't - only a device. So you can only connect it to a host (PC/Mac/iPad/smartphone etc, or one of those other keyboards). You can't (directly) connect it to another P225, for example - or to a keyboard which has no USB MIDI capabilities at all.

 

There are several USB MIDI Host adapters on the market that will allow you to connect a P225 to a keyboard with 5-pin MIDI - and I found this one https://www.doremidi.cn/h-pd-64.html which will allow you to attach two USB MIDI devices (like a pair of P225s) to each other.

 

Cheers, Mike. 

[ElmerJFudd]

35 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I've never heard of any keyboard with a USB "to host" (square-ish USB-B) connector that didn't send MIDI over that that connector... it's basically the reason they started adding that port to begin with. The question was whether it was class compliant or required installation of a manufacturer-supplied driver, but that hasn't been an issue (for MIDI) in some time. Sending audio as well is the variable now.

It appears to be class compliant on macOS and iOS. I did see a Windows driver though.  I will double check on that.  

32 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted to know if I could use this the Yamaha to push note info to my other boards if I wanted.

Through the computer yes.  Not directly without a host box.  They make them too if you don’t want to use a PC. 

[Paul Henry]

Thanks Mike: I do have an iRig2 Midi box that I use with my iPad. But I'd rather have that dedicated Dore box you suggested.

For reference I now have a Fantom7 that I use to push Midi to my Nautilus and thru that to my Stage3.

I would want to put the P225 in front of those boards for now until I decide what to do with the Fantom.

21 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

That simple question involves some nuances. With USB there's always a host and a device. Some keyboards can act as a host, but the P225 can't - only a device. So you can only connect it to a host (PC/Mac/iPad/smartphone etc, or one of those other keyboards). You can't (directly) connect it to another P225, for example - or to a keyboard which has no USB MIDI capabilities at all.

 

There are several USB MIDI Host adapters on the market that will allow you to connect a P225 to a keyboard with 5-pin MIDI - and I found this one https://www.doremidi.cn/h-pd-64.html which will allow you to attach two USB MIDI devices (like a pair of P225s) to each other.

 

Cheers, Mike. 

 

[stoken6]

4 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

I do have an iRig2 Midi box

What model is this? There are lots of "MIDI USB interfaces" that aren't USB MID Host adapters, and they won't do what you need. 

 

Regards, Mike.

[stoken6]

6 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

I now have a Fantom7 that I use to push Midi to my Nautilus and thru that to my Stage3

I believe the Fantom can act as a USB Host (although from memory, it's listed as only for other Roland boards), and so can the Nautilus, but not the Stage.

 

7 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

push Midi

Are you looking to play Fantom/Nautilus/Stage sounds from the P225? You should be fine with the Nautilus, worth a try with the Fantom, and no dice with the Stage (you'll need a USB MIDI Host Adapter). 

Conversely, if you want to connect a P225 to your iPad, a USB B->C cable should be all you need (or if a Lightning iPad, USB B->A with a CCK).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Paul Henry]

Well if I indeed purchase this board I'll just have to fiddle with things until I achieve what's needed.

I probably will lose the Fantom at some point soon if I get the P225 and would go from that USB to the Nautilus and 5 pin to the Stage3   Yes?  

[AnotherScott]

56 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

It appears to be class compliant on macOS and iOS. I did see a Windows driver though.  I will double check on that.  

Class compliant isn't specific to certain platforms... that's kind of the definition of class compliant. That doesn't mean that a driver could not be required for additional functionality, though.

[ElmerJFudd]

4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Class compliant isn't specific to certain platforms... that's kind of the definition of class compliant. That doesn't mean that a driver could not be required for additional functionality, though.

This is a weird one, Scott.  Pg 46

P-225_P-223 Reference Manual (yamaha.com)

It's plug and play on macOS, iOS, Android.

"When using a Windows computer, you will need to install the Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver to your computer. For details, refer to the “Computer-related Operations” on Yamaha website (page 2)."

 

I'm also trying to figure out what this GHC action is... Graded Hammer Compact is my guess, so they went with shorter key length to make the keyboard slimmer.  

[stoken6]

9 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

I get the P225 and would go from that USB to the Nautilus and 5 pin to the Stage3   Yes?  

"Probably"! If I was in your position, I would test that the P225 can USB-MIDI to the Nautilus before putting my money down. 

 

(In fact, if I was in your position I would give the P225 a swerve and go for one of the earlier budget models from Yamaha with better actions - or a Casio or Kawai. But that's not relevant right now).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Dockeys]

This is probably of no help but i played one a few months ago in a store and hooked up my iPhone and used it to play Pianoteq. Seamless, so the usb audio interface works perfectly. But you’re talking about using it to control other keyboards?

[Paul Henry]

1 hour ago, Dockeys said:

This is probably of no help but i played one a few months ago in a store and hooked up my iPhone and used it to play Pianoteq. Seamless, so the usb audio interface works perfectly. But you’re talking about using it to control other keyboards?

Yes that is correct.

[Paul Henry]

6 hours ago, stoken6 said:

"Probably"! If I was in your position, I would test that the P225 can USB-MIDI to the Nautilus before putting my money down. 

 

(In fact, if I was in your position I would give the P225 a swerve and go for one of the earlier budget models from Yamaha with better actions - or a Casio or Kawai. But that's not relevant right now).

 

Cheers, Mike.

I did also try the Casio PX S6000 and the Kawai ES120...I didn't care for the Casio hand to ear thing and I need a bit more time with the Kawai to make a final judgement on that board. I believe after looking at the manual that I would be in the same boat as the P225 Midi wise with the Kawai. 

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Paul Henry said:

I would be in the same boat as the P225 Midi wise with the Kawai. 

And also the Casio. Older boards from a few years ago have 5-pin MIDI which simplifies your requirement.

[Paul Henry]

10 hours ago, stoken6 said:

And also the Casio. Older boards from a few years ago have 5-pin MIDI which simplifies your requirement.

Yup my little studio setup is all 5 pin din. Looks like the DoreMidi UMH-21 would do the trick.

[Paul Henry]

Well I just got the Yamaha P225 and tried going directly to my Roland Fantom7 from the USB jack of the P225 and the Roland did receive MiDi  note on-off info.

But it would not come out the 5pin MiDi jacks to my Nautilus and Nord Stage3.

So I ordered the DoreMidi UMH-21 and we'll see how that goes.

[stoken6]

9 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

it would not come out the 5pin MiDi jacks to my Nautilus and Nord Stage3

Were you connecting P225-via-USB-to-Fantom and Fantom-via-5pin-to-Nautilus? To play the Nautilus from the Yamaha the Fantom needs to have "soft thru" capability (I don't know if it does, but it's not something you can assume).

 

Were you connecting from Fantom MIDI OUT to Nautilus MIDI IN? It's worth trying the Fantom's MIDI THRU socket.

 

Fantom owners can comment more on the specifics. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Paul Henry]

On 9/9/2024 at 2:59 AM, stoken6 said:

Were you connecting P225-via-USB-to-Fantom and Fantom-via-5pin-to-Nautilus? To play the Nautilus from the Yamaha the Fantom needs to have "soft thru" capability (I don't know if it does, but it's not something you can assume).

 

Were you connecting from Fantom MIDI OUT to Nautilus MIDI IN? It's worth trying the Fantom's MIDI THRU socket.

 

Fantom owners can comment more on the specifics. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

Yes I had tried every which way and nothing worked. So As said I purchased that DoreMidi box and that works fine. 

On another note I'm probably going to be parting with my Fantom7 anyway so that will be out of the mix.

 

Paul