2 tier set-up upgrade

[Briggs]

I currently have a Juno DS88 and a VR09. I run set list maker on a tablet which sends midi signals to the DS when I change song which changes the performance.

 

The reason I love the Juno DS is the ability to create performances, the flexibility I have with them and how easy it is to set up midi signals from set list maker. The two drawbacks for myself are the poor organ sounds and that I can only assign the expression pedal function globally, not per performance. This is possible with more midi but I don’t want to have to deal with that.

 

I got the VR09 to handle the organ, but it’s also very useful for quick access to main sounds such as strings, brass, synth & organ. The downsides are it’s almost impossible to set up midi to change registrations, and it lacks flexibility when creating registrations. For example, I’d like to layer the brass sounds with a mix of brass sounds and synth but I can only dual.

 

My thoughts are, purchase one 88 key workstation that can do the below, and run a second midi controller from the first keyboard:

- Achieve all Juno DS functionality

- Assign different functions to the expression pedal per performance

- Have the processing power to handle running a second midi controller with lots of layers, effects etc without an issue

- Have a solid organ and Leslie sound

 

I know the obvious answer is to use a DAW, but this is out of budget and not how I want my rig set up. I was considering a FA 08 and midi controller which would be in budget, but I’ve heard mixed reviews.

 

the other option is an FA 06 and use the Juno DS as a midi controller.

 

Any thoughts?

[Biggles]

Swap out the DS for the 88 key version.

 

The FA06 action leave a lot to be desired, the 07 has a different action and IMO much better.

 

Consider a Fantom O series, the same Performances capabilities as the DS and a similar Roland OS that you are familiar with.

[AnotherScott]

1 minute ago, Biggles said:

Swap out the DS for the 88 key version.

His DS already is the 88 version.

 

1 minute ago, Biggles said:

Consider a Fantom O series, the same Performances capabilities as the DS and a similar Roland OS that you are familiar with.

Yes, the Fantom-08 was my first thought for his idea of replacing that Juno DS88, addressing the shortcomings he mentioned. It doesn't quite have " all Juno DS functionality", but close, plus of course a whole ton of capability that goes beyond what the DS can do. Fantom-08 also has better organ than the FA-08 mentioned (which lacks CV and real-time organ controls, and lags the Fantom-0 in rotary+overdrive).

[JimboKeys]

Just a thought (i went through a similar conundrum when putting my rig together many years ago).  Have the brains of the rig (sounds, patch changes, etc) on the top (61-key) board, and add an 88 key controller underneath.  Then all your controls will be accessible from the top board, so that the bottom board can go directly under (like the lower manual of a B3).

 

-- Jimbo

[AnotherScott]

3 minutes ago, JimboKeys said:

Just a thought (i went through a similar conundrum when putting my rig together many years ago).  Have the brains of the rig (sounds, patch changes, etc) on the top (61-key) board, and add an 88 key controller underneath.  Then all your controls will be accessible from the top board, so that the bottom board can go directly under (like the lower manual of a B3).

 

This also works with the brains in the 88, if you make your 88 your top board. I have sometimes gone against convention that way. Lately, if one board has a music stand attachment, I like to put that on top (regardless of which of the two boards it is), because that's the most convenient place for an iPad. Compared to various attachments which almost always put the tablet off to one side, the centered music stand approach tends to give you the best distance for readability+operation, with high stability.

[Delaware Dave]

Kurz PC4. Great controller, respectable organ, so-so delivered leslie but with tweaking it can be giggable. My two cents.

[Ibarch]

The Fantom 08 would be capable of doing everything in a single board. It has all the sounds of the Juno, plus a big upgrade for organ sounds with the virtual tone wheels. It has 16 parts for practically unlimited options for splits and layers. The pedals and faders, knobs and buttons can be configured per scene (performance). 

 

It does lose a few of the synth dedicated controls of the Juno but this can mostly be worked around with assignable controls. The Fantom 08 does provide better performance options in other areas for controlling sounds, zones and the 16 programmable pads.

 

About the only thing it can't do is provide a fully weighted keyboard one song, waterfall keys the next and a synth action following on. May have to wait a year or two more for that. 

[EricBarker]

This is why many keyboardists, after years of gigging, eventually settle on using a single "does it all" workstation. It really depends on your goals, gigs, and bands you play in, but it ends up being a good solution for many of us. I did the laptop rig for years, then ended up beefing up with a number of hardware boards. In the end, I got "smart" and simple with a single Nord S3C. I said goodby to my pristine strings and horns and countless synth VSTs in exchange for an infinitely more simple and less stressful rig that just works for every kind of gig or band I play in. It's not the best at ANYTHING, but it's very good at most things, and plays well to a live situation. Depending on your needs, a Kronos or Fantom or Montage would be just as good (though heavy AF). I love my organs, which was the deciding factor for me.

[Briggs]

Thanks everyone! It’s nice to know my thought process is along the right lines. New gear is a big investment so I’m keen to get it right. I need to research the Fantom 08 - to be honest I thought they were the same keyboard for ages. I did read something about having to subscribe to a cloud service with the Fantom but that was a long time ago.

 

i definitely like the option of one keyboard as the brains - as long as it has he processing power to handle it - the Juno DS definitely doesn’t once you start layering etc.

[Macsaint777]

19 minutes ago, Briggs said:

Thanks everyone! It’s nice to know my thought process is along the right lines. New gear is a big investment so I’m keen to get it right. I need to research the Fantom 08 - to be honest I thought they were the same keyboard for ages. I did read something about having to subscribe to a cloud service with the Fantom but that was a long time ago.

 

i definitely like the option of one keyboard as the brains - as long as it has he processing power to handle it - the Juno DS definitely doesn’t once you start layering etc.

Just know that the fantom will also choke if you are doing lots of layers. In my case, it only took 4. Closest thing I could get to a double do it all setup that works for ME, is a Stage 4 Compact and a Juno X. 

 

[AnotherScott]

30 minutes ago, Briggs said:

i definitely like the option of one keyboard as the brains - as long as it has he processing power to handle it - the Juno DS definitely doesn’t once you start layering etc.

 

Hmm.

 

Juno DS (which uses samples for all its sounds) has max polyphony of 128. Fantom-0 has max polyphony of 256, but each each sampled element takes two units of polyphony (to allow for stereo)... even if it's a mono sample. I don't *think* the Juno does that, which means, when it comes to sampled sounds, it's possible that the polyphony could be identical. Either way, Fantom-0 also has sounds that are not sample based (or not entirely so), i.e. the VA and SuperNATURAL stuff, which can cause you to use up polyphony more quickly. Bottom line... if the Juno DS is running out of polyphony for you, I"m not sure Fantom-0 will be better.

 

9 minutes ago, Macsaint777 said:

Just know that the fantom will also choke if you are doing lots of layers. In my case, it only took 4. 

 

It will depend on which 4 sounds you're layering. As I said, VA synthesis and SN sounds may use polyphony more quickly. Also, sampled sounds that play multiple partials simultaneously will use up polyphony more quickly than sampled sounds that don't (whether because they don't use as many partials, or different ones come in at different velocities). Of course, it will also vary with how many notes you're playing, and how long you're holding down the sustain pedal (and how many of the layered sounds are set to be held by the sustain pedal when you do).

[Moonglow]

Drifting OT a little, but I would hang on to that VR-09. Nice lightweight board to have around in case your main board ever takes a dive at a gig. I have a two-keyboard rig so I could get through a job if one of them crashed, but sometimes I still toss (not literally) a MODX-7 in the truck, especially if it’s a high profile gig. Just 16 pounds (in your case 12) for peace of mind.