FOH channel set-up for keyboard

[pjd]

Played the usual Sunday service this AM with a mostly acoustic group: acoustic piano, acoustic guitar, drum and me on MODX. The piano is mic'ed and the guitar goes direct. I pretty much go direct, too.

 

I chip in organ, pads, woodwinds and other "natural" instruments. I hold down some simple bass in addition to the right hand stuff, BTW. I control my volume using an expression pedal and try to match dynamics with the piano. The sound board is locked such that the dude at the mixer can't ride faders and I gotta use my ears and exp pedal.

 

Well, dang. On virtually every tune today, my sound "surges" in the mix like the signal crossed a threshold and bang, kicked in some kind of automated gain. Sometimes there was enough gain to make woodwinds sound like kazoos. 😬 [Over-driven somewhere.]

 

The sound guy and I check my channel afterwards, and sure enough, there is a noise gate (threshold, attack, release, etc.) on my channel. The preset name "SPK VOX" makes me think the preset is for voice.

 

So, what is the appropriate FOH mixer set-up for natural sounding keys? Right now, I want them to give me a "clean" channel with no freaking plug-ins, effects and flat EQ.

 

Suggestions? Thanks, as they say, in advance -- pj

 

[Stokely]

I'm with you.

I can't stand presets on digital mixers.   I'd be 100% in favor of taking them completely off and applying what actually needs to be applied based on the instrumentation of the band in question and even the venue.  That's why presets are bunk--one size doesn't fit all.

I've never liked noise gates live on anything but if I did they'd have to carefully dialed in--and there's no reason to use one with a modern keyboard.  If some old analog thing was generating a lot of hiss, then maybe.

The closest thing to a "universal" thing I'd ever apply would be a high-pass EQ getting rid of the very bottom end, though with you playing some bass I wouldn't even do that.
 

So yeah--play your loudest to set gain, take off EQ and any dynamics, take off effects unless you want a bit of reverb--but if you do that, might want to make your patches more dry.  I own a Modx and most of the stock patches tend to be quite wet (more than I like actually).

[pjd]

Thanks for the feedback! (Errr, bad choice of word given the subject. 😀 )  I don't want to be off-base when I plead my case with the A/V crew.

 

Our church doesn't staff our small A/V booth at every service, so they program in scenes for each group. Kind of set it, forget it, and keep it locked up. Everything was good the last several Sundays until blam -- something changed.

 

Take care -- pj

 

P.S. I dialed down all the MODX reverb day 1. SOP when dealing with Yamaha. 😉

 

[Adam Burgess]

Been on both sides of the desk/keys and, yes, flat should be good enough for a starting point. 

Treat LH bass and keys differently, if possible.

Have good arrangements. 

Unless you want a compressed piano, get good monitoring and play normally. Volume is not the same as hammering the thing.

Usual (impossible) caveats apply about levelling patches out, out of context! 

[Stokely]

Ah really good point about ideally having the bass be separate--but unfortunately the Modx only has L and R.  You'd have to go mono and pan separately.

Unfortunately a lot of engineers slap some pretty extreme (from my perspective!) compression/limiting on keys and anything else that pops up (or even before it pops up...).  I've monitored via aux post-processing before and it sucks if they have over-compressed.  I started using a Rolls box at a few gigs that lets me combine an aux with pre-FOH keys for that very reason.

If your band plays a variety of stuff from quiet ballads to heavy rockers as we do, it's nigh impossible to have perfect patch balancing that works in every venue...just do the best you can and hope the engineer is willing to do a bit of mixing vs just limiting you to oblivion....

[cphollis]

I do sound for my band so I get any channel strip I want.

 

I run a L/R mix across the full range -- no separate channels for bass, organ, etc.  I make the APs sound great, and go from there.

 

A little mild compression helps me sit better in the mix.  I scoop midrange EQ at ~400Hz -2dB to clear some of the mud.  A mild bit of reverb, if it's a dry environment like outdoors, otherwise go with room reverb.  Less is more.

 

Noise gates don't belong on digital keys channels, period.

[allan_evett]

On 5/5/2024 at 4:30 PM, pjd said:

The sound board is locked such that the dude at the mixer can't ride faders and I gotta use my ears and exp pedal.

 

 

 

 I've run into this a few times at clubs, also at a couple small churches when I've subbed-in on keys. Has always struck me as somewhat odd.

I can see slight benefit to locking a board; if and only if an experienced sound person sets it, and from having done a thorough soundcheck. Typically though it's an order from some higher-up who has no experience in the details of sound - often a club owner, manager, pastor or other staff person. And they often do that to keep the music from getting 'too loud'.  I'd much rather have someone who can work the faders.  But in these thankfully rare circumstances,  the Grand Poobah gets what they want... 

[Baldwin Funster]

Locking the mixer is the one way to make sure every channel is set wrong for the next band.

[Stokely]

I can see why they might do it.  We've had friends of the band that supposedly knew how to do live sound (and this is before we got a semi-dedicated sound person) completely and royally screw up just about everything.  Like massive cuts and boosts in EQ, wacky compression settings and crazy fx.  Less is more, but some people look at a mix like they are a mad scientist and start waving their scalpel around.  Our band is very consistent from show to show and there's no reason for drastic measures normally (we don't have feedback, or hardly any, because no wedges.)

[pjd]

OP here -- Thanks for all of your comments!

 

My own target for our mix would be to sound like an acoustic group amplified throughout the church hall with enough volume to support congregational singing. (We don't "perform".) The biggest outstanding issue is getting the chorus (8 to 10 voices) out front and over the instruments, especially when the drummer joins us. The choral mics tend to pick up too much bleed from the drums. (We're angling the pastoral staff for a drum cage). Our dynamic range is pretty wide.

 

Thanks to everyone's advice, I'll get fixed up. I really noticed the gate and sudden swell doing what was supposed to be a quiet, meditative interlude. I'm playing this solo thing with an airy patch and, bam, here come George Clinton and the Muthership! 🙃

 

It was a bad weekend for sound and my spouse has her own horror story. (85 voice chorus in a new venue and only one tech rehearsal.) You know it's bad when post-concert HER first words were "What did you think of the piano?" It starts with a poorly chosen piano patch on an NS3 and goes down from there... I wasn't playing, but I do know the folks on AP that night, and they couldn't have been happy.

 

I appreciate the help -- pj