Analyzing the bass in “What’s Love Got To Do With It?”

[Sundown]

Hey all,

 

I’m trying to finish an instrumental track and the synthetic/sampled bass is still just too thick. I’ve used everything from sampled HALion basses to my Roland D-20, which has some simple but effective bass sounds I’ve created over the years (and it’ s one of the reasons I keep that instrument). My current approach is a layer of the two with some drastic LPF/HPF to eliminate clash.

 

The closest sonic match I’m shooting for bass-wise is Tina Turner’s “What’s Love Got To Do With It”. Her track has a kick drum and mine doesn’t, but her song has this very steady, non-intrusive bass. Her song is in G# minor and I’m in C minor so my fundamentals are a bit different, but there are shared notes as my bass line has C, Bb, Ab, and F in it. I’ve looked at Tina’s track in Pro Q3 to see what’s peaking and what’s absent, and it seems like 100 Hz is strong, 60 Hz has some presence, and 80 Hz is low/non-existent. I’ve tried cutting in the mud range (250 to 800) but I’m still missing the target.

 

I don’t believe this is a problem of not hearing the bass accurately. My room is purpose-built and treated and I can hear the problem. I’m just not sure how to fix it and I’ve tried a lot of parametric and dynamic EQ and even a bit of very modest transparent compression (Waves C1).

 

I’ve included Tina’s track below along with an MP3 snippet of mine. 

 

Any suggestions on how I can tighten up this bottom end? Is it a level problem, or an EQ problem?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Todd

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

That 100Hz spike on the Tina track is almost certainly because that's almost exactly the frequency of G#.

I think your chosen sound is too complex for the effect you want. I'd undo the layering, choose just one of those options, and limit the frequency range of whichever option you choose. Some limiting or compression might help as well, but right now I think the primary issue is the patch itself. Removing that HPF might get you closer too.

Just some initial thoughts/impressions...

[KuruPrionz]

I've had good luck getting bass tracks to sit in the mix by reducing 200hz on a quasi parametric EQ (Tech 21 Q-Strip). That seems to be the area that collides with the rest of the mix in my experience. Your results may vary, try taking the low mid down and then shifting the frequency. 

 

[Sundown]

20 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

That 100Hz spike on the Tina track is almost certainly because that's almost exactly the frequency of G#.

 

Great observation, Josh. And particularly relevant/important as Tina’s track has a rhythmic drone on G#. 

 

I agree with you that I probably need to change the sound. When I find that I’m EQ’ing the hell out of something, generally the arrangement is wrong or the sound is wrong.

 

I’ve struggled to find something simple and thin enough. The D-20 sound is literally one partial/oscillator.

 

When I listen to Tina’s track, I hear a real electric bass, almost certainly played with fingers (as opposed to a pick). Her track has an advantage with a kick drum, in that it helps define the notes. With Fletcher-Munson, bass really disappears on my track on small devices or at low volume and there’s no drum to keep it present.

 

But I’ll keep trying. Thanks for the input.

 

Todd

[Sundown]

I feel like I need to suck some low end out of the Electric Piano chord part as well. There might be some build-up that isn’t helping.

 

Todd

[KuruPrionz]

11 hours ago, Sundown said:

I feel like I need to suck some low end out of the Electric Piano chord part as well. There might be some build-up that isn’t helping.

 

Todd

It's usually good to have good low end in the kick drum and whatever instrument is playing the bass part. Anything more usually results in clutter, especially if the notes sustain. It won't hurt too much on the low tom but mostly because it doesn't get played too much. 

[Shamanzarek]

Apparently the bass guitar was considered a guide track that was going to be replaced in the final recording. After several attempts at replacing the bass it was decided to keep the original guide track. The bass was not properly tuned but had a feel they liked.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/classic-tracks-tina-turner-whats-love-got-do-it

[Sundown]

Boy, that’s a great article. Thanks for sharing.

 

Todd

[Sundown]

I think I’ve got the bottom end right now … It’s not perfect, but it’s leaps and bounds better. I’ll post the finished track soon.

 

The fix was to use a very simple General MIDI patch from my XV-3080, recorded mono, and played with light velocity. It was actually a Slap Bass patch but as long as I kept the velocity low it sounded like a fingered bass without the slap twang.

 

Then I cut away what I didn’t want with EQ and ran it through a Distressor plugin (UAD) and just mashed the hell out of it (6:1 or Opto 10:1). I compressed it not to raise the level, but to anchor it and keep it steady as can be. 

 

I don’t have a kick drum in this section, so I couldn’t use a drum transient to emphasize the bass at low playback levels, so I just added a bit of boost in the 1.5K range to raise the string resonance a bit. With all of these pieces combined, it sounds pretty good across multiple environments.

 

Thanks again.

 

Todd

 

 

[synthetic]

On 2/17/2024 at 12:15 PM, KuruPrionz said:

I've had good luck getting bass tracks to sit in the mix by reducing 200hz on a quasi parametric EQ (Tech 21 Q-Strip). That seems to be the area that collides with the rest of the mix in my experience. Your results may vary, try taking the low mid down and then shifting the frequency. 

 

 

I was going to suggest the opposite, boosting around 200Hz. Right now the bass is all woof and no pitch, no attack, I don't hear any definition like the Tina track. 200Hz might help or some higher stuff for more definition. 

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, synthetic said:

 

I was going to suggest the opposite, boosting around 200Hz. Right now the bass is all woof and no pitch, no attack, I don't hear any definition like the Tina track. 200Hz might help or some higher stuff for more definition. 

Woof is why I use the low mid knobs to turn down 200hz, that's what I call "mud-range". On the Tech 21 Q-Strip, I set the high mid frequency at around 1.7khz and give that a bit of a boost. There's your pitch and attack. I turn the highs up a bit as well, there is your chime. My bass records with a full, deep low end and clarity. I'm using D'Addario Brite Flats on both of my basses and EMG P Bass pickups, the strings are smooth to the touch and have a bit more definition that true flat wounds. The pickups are full range and virtually zero hum. They have big bass and strong clear highs. 

 

If you are using flat wound strings (and they do have advantages, no finger noise scraping the winds), try the Brite Flats.