Hackney Diamonds

[KenElevenShadows]

What do you think of the new Stones album? 

 

No Charlie Watts for most of the album aside (and that I think he was an important enough part of the band that maybe they should be called something else), the album sounds good so far. I'll have to listen to the whole thing, but the songs seem surprisingly good. Seems really compressed, but I guess that's how people record pop albums now. I'm not so into the drumming right now, but maybe it'll grow on me. Anyway, I'm only a few songs in and have to go to sleep. "Mess It Up" sounds pretty good so far. Wasn't expecting a quasi-disco tune on the album, but it sounds good. 

[Anderton]

It's their first album of new material since 2005, so the question is whether they've progressed in the past 18 uears. Much to my surprise, the answer is yes! Frankly, I had little interest in spending the time to check it out. Rock is pretty stagnant these days, right?

 

However, it has a modern sound - not as in "commercial," as in really well-recorded, superbly mixed, and Mick Jagger sounds like he can actually sing - I suspect there's judicious use of pitch correction, but it's not detectable. There are more evolved chord progressions, the instrumentation is layered beautifully, and overall I'm really impressed. I NEVER thought I would be saying that about an album by the Rolling Stones in 2023. 

 

The songwriting is way more evolved IMHO. Andrew Watt, who produced the album, is given songwriter credit and at least to my ears, excellent outside input is all over this album - not just the songwriting, but the arranging as well. His credit is underplayed, but I think he's probably the one responsible for dragging the Stones into the 21st century. I wouldn't have compressed it as much in the mastering stage, but that's me. 

 

There's also variety in the cuts - for example, "Bite My Head Off" is vintage 1976 Sex Pistols vibe, with Paul McCartney (!?) on highly distorted bass. 

 

Good catch, Ken, I probably wouldn't have made an effort to check it out had you not mentioned it here. For those who want to hear what the Stones have learned in the last 18 years, here's the Spotify link. I guess the best compliment I can pay it is that I'll listen to it more than once

 

Is it just me (and Ken) or do y'all have some thoughts about it?

[KuruPrionz]

I've been a fan of the Stones for decades. I plan on listening to it soon. The last Stones album I bought and listened to was Some Girls and that was a vinyl release so quite a while ago. Exile On Main Street remains one of my favorite albums of all time. I should go peruse our used CD store and see what I've been ignoring for a while. 

[KuruPrionz]

Credit where credit is due, Mick and Keith have always had a unique sound and they've written a TON of great songs. 

I would't have bet on them surviving this long but here we are and they are still here too! Kudos!!

[Anderton]

49 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Exile On Main Street remains one of my favorite albums of all time.

I'm with you on that one. When buying favorite albums on CD, that was one of the first.

 

48 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Credit where credit is due, Mick and Keith have always had a unique sound and they've written a TON of great songs. 

 

I'll be interested whether you hear the same outside influences shaping them that I hear. I haven't heard the Stones use a lot of chord subsitutions in the past, like relative minors for majors and such. I think the result is a more varied and interesting album that doesn't take away from any of what Mick and Keith contribute.

[KenElevenShadows]

In a blind taste test, I immediately responded to "Mess It Up", one of the songs that Charlie's playing on, and as the song went on, I realized it was him playing. That gets me going. What a groove I like the punkish song and "Rollin' Stone Blues" and one other one that I can't remember. This is through two listens. 

 

I disliked the lack of dynamics immediately. By the time the chorus comes, there's nowhere else to go. I just don't like it at all, and feel that it interferes with my enjoyment of the music.

 

That said, it's waaaay better than I would have expected. The songwriting is good, and Jagger and Richards sound great on every track. The songwriting is really strong. I just love the singing and playing on this. Very impressive. I enjoy this much more than what I would have though, as I didn't like their previous outing of original material.

[KenElevenShadows]

7 hours ago, Anderton said:

 

Good catch, Ken, I probably wouldn't have made an effort to check it out had you not mentioned it here. For those who want to hear what the Stones have learned in the last 18 years, here's the Spotify link. I guess the best compliment I can pay it is that I'll listen to it more than once

 

Is it just me (and Ken) or do y'all have some thoughts about it?

 

I brought it up because I was pleasantly surprised at how good it seemed like it would be. It's not without some negative aspects, but the songwriting and performances are strong and energetic. 

 

I miss Watts. He was one of the main members. Jordan is a really good drummer, don't get me wrong, but I don't hear the "Rolling" part of the Stones so much when Watts is going.

 

Unpopular opinion: I don't believe the Rolling Stones are the Rolling Stones without Watts. They may be good, they may still have the principal songwriters, but to me, even if it's really good, it's not the Stones. As always, YMMV, and almost assuredly does.

[Anderton]

6 minutes ago, KenElevenShadows said:

I don't believe the Rolling Stones are the Rolling Stones without Watts.

 

There is that, but they already weren't the same Rolling Stones without Brian Jones. Better to have a new drummer than have some ghoulish Charlie Watts AI drum machine. 

 

9 minutes ago, KenElevenShadows said:

but the songwriting and performances are strong and energetic. 

 

I really do think they're getting an assist on the songwriting from their producer. Those rejuvenated chord changes seem to be coming out of nowhere...unless they're using something like the Harmonic Editing in Studio One to see where it takes them, like Pete Townshend used Ableton Live for inspiration.

[KenElevenShadows]

14 hours ago, Anderton said:

 

There is that, but they already weren't the same Rolling Stones without Brian Jones. Better to have a new drummer than have some ghoulish Charlie Watts AI drum machine. 

 

Absolutely. But what I’m saying is that without them, I wish renamed themselves “The Stones” or something else, not that they shouldn’t continue or that they shouldn’t use another drummer. There is no more “Rolling”. Watts was that important to the group, in my opinion. But I realize this had zero chance of happening.

[o0Ampy0o]

As far a I can tell, without knowing about these guys (those too young and unfamiliar) there is nothing energetically indicating they are NOT in their 20's. It is amazing considering their age, how many tours they have done and Mick's activity on stage.

 

It could grow on me with repetition of airplay in the context of traditional broadcast radio, now extinct. Initially I did not like Mick's delivery of vocals. I thought he leaned too much on stylizing lines. There is also too much slap back echo on the vocals of most tracks especially Tell Me Straight, the one Keith sings lead on. I could probably get used to it.

 

I have enjoyed many songs from The Stones. I have not seen them live. I have seen and listened to all of their videos and albums many times. If the opportunity came up I would see them on this tour. I wouldn't care if they didn't play a particular song. I would enjoy hearing this new material. I doubt they would dial up the echo on vocals every time they did a track from this album. Hopefully they are not doing the tour with all vocals heavy on echo.

 

Some press states Paul McCartney is on two tracks. I have only been able to determine it is one track, Bite My Head Off. Just acknowledging Paul McCartney on bass during his little part would have served the song well. I always have loved Paul's prominent bass sound. He probably did not have anything to do with writing the song. Paul has had a knack for choosing what to play and not play covering bass notes. The distorted bass just puts a stamp on there being absolutely nothing recognizable as Paul other than Mick's acknowledgement. I don't care so much that he is playing bass on that song. I'd care more if it was Paul sounding like Paul. It just makes me think he is there as another guest stepping into the spotlight instead of contributing something musically him.

 

The guitars sound great. Keith has arthritis and has had to alter how he plays. They mostly have not been that kind of band but I enjoyed how there is no shortage of layered leads and rhythm guitars on this album.

 

 

[Nowarezman]

 Well....it's so hard to disconnect expectations and actually hear this album.   I do hear Keef first and foremost.  Lawzame, Richard's rhythm guitar hits me in the viscera, literally.  

 

There's something unnatural about Jagger's vocals in this latest album - just a gut, first impression here.  Dunno - the vocal sound is rather thin...and the classic "meat" in his voice is not there.  Well, ok, we all lose all sorts of stuffing as we age.  I like the grooves, sure, but the thick, greasy, rockin'  R&B, empathetic soul vibe driven by Watt's back beat....that was "the Stones" for me.  

 

I actually hated the Stones (I'm talking 60s and 70s here) more than I liked them - but I did like them nevertheless.  They were always a bit bogus to an extent to me - too much emulation of black music from the southern U.S.A. to make a unique mark.  They lacked one major component of R&B - sincerity.  When they were sentimental, it was a joke.  When they were passionate, it was just sex, a long mile short of the sort of heartfelt love you heard in Aretha or Otis Redding songs.  But damn it I loved Satisfaction and Brown Sugar and Sympathy for the Devil, Paint It Black, Gimme Shelter, Street Fightin' Man (maybe the best rock single of them all)  in spite of my offended sensibilities.

 

More power to 'em - to put out an album at this late date.  I miss rock music, soul music, creative and passionate young people's music.  I love the old stuff, sure, but it's so far in the rear-view mirror that it has nothing to do with where things are going.  

 

nat

 

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

The Stones are my number one band. I’ve long realized that whenever I’m down, putting them on will get me out. They always get me going. 
 

I’ve seen them live only a handful of times, Most recently it was in 2019 and that was one of the best shows I’ve ever seen.

 

So when they premiered the video for Angry at that event with Jimmy Fallon, I was so disappointed it made me sad. While I loved the billboards with them throughout their history in the video, I didn’t like the song. What a bummer. 
 

But, I don’t know what happened, but my feelings about the song quickly changed. I’ve been listening to it since the release and now I love it. It gets stuck in my head and I don’t mind at all. Sweet Sounds of Heaven with Lady Gaga and Stevie Wonder is great as well, and I’ve had both in heavy rotation. Now that the rest of the album is out, I’m listening to it a lot, though the other tunes haven’t stuck yet. I think it’s just a matter of time. 
 

I agree about Watts, Ken, in that he was a big part of the sound and feel. I’ve been very curious about how they’d sound and feel with Jordan, but my confidence is high both because Jordan had Charlie’s approval and recommendation, and because he felt great as part of Keith’s Winos. 

[Anderton]

7 hours ago, Nowarezman said:

I love the old stuff, sure, but it's so far in the rear-view mirror that it has nothing to do with where things are going. 

 

All the more reason I was shocked that the album comes across so well. Yeah, rock is long in the tooth, but so are the Brandenburgs. Anything done well is..done well.

[Anderton]

7 hours ago, Nowarezman said:

They were always a bit bogus to an extent to me - too much emulation of black music from the southern U.S.A. to make a unique mark.

 

FWIW Muddy Waters has a songwriting credit on the new album

[o0Ampy0o]

7 hours ago, Nowarezman said:

… sincerity… 

I never consciously thought of them like that however looking back as I was listening to Angry I did wonder why pull upon Sex Pistols punk? It seemed irrelevant. And, although his singing style on that one is sort of angry I thought Mick stepped up the angry British punk accent but it felt like a style rather than emotion. So yeah what a bunch of posers. ;-))

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I've been excited to give the whole album a listen (I will and report back). I heard Sweet Sounds of Heaven and was very pleasantly surprised to hear a track that had all the elements of classic Stones to me, though of course with much more modern production (it is a little squeezed and Mick's vocals a little electronically polished for my taste, but hey, we take what we can get). It's very cool that so much of the classic element of the band could still make a record 60+ years on

 

I totally hear the "is it really the Stones without Charlie" argument; he was much more responsible for the band's sound and identity than Bill Wyman, who by the classic late 60s/early 70s era it seems like was only playing about half the basslines anyway. And of course, though Ronnie's been Guitar 2 longer than anyone, it was established before some of their greatest records that they could lose a guitarist and carry on just fine. This feels like a bigger shift, though it is special to have Charlie (and Bill!) on at least a couple of tracks.

 

For the purists, though, I'll throw out there that there are a few classic tunes where Charlie ceded the drum throne to Jimmy Miller -- "You Can't Always Get What You Want," "Shine a Light," and the tag of "Tumbling Dice" come to mind.

 

Of course, there are a handful of Beatles songs that Paul drummed on instead of Ringo, and the thought of an alternative-universe reunited Beatles who made a record without Ringo on drums would be pretty hard to stomach, too!

[KenElevenShadows]

6 hours ago, Joe Muscara said:

 

I agree about Watts, Ken, in that he was a big part of the sound and feel. I’ve been very curious about how they’d sound and feel with Jordan, but my confidence is high both because Jordan had Charlie’s approval and recommendation, and because he felt great as part of Keith’s Winos. 

 

Jordan is good, but that magic groove is gone. I know he had Watts' approval. I vaguely remember him sounding good with the Winos. But it just feels more stiff and less groovy to me.

[KuruPrionz]

On 10/23/2023 at 11:04 AM, KenElevenShadows said:

 

Jordan is good, but that magic groove is gone. I know he had Watts' approval. I vaguely remember him sounding good with the Winos. But it just feels more stiff and less groovy to me.

I've listened to 3 songs so far that have Jordan on drums. I agree, Charlie Watts had a backbeat groove like to other. 

I can't imagine Honky Tonk Women kicking in with the bass drum solidly on the one. 

[Joe Muscara]

I dunno man. I was moved by this as much as anything the Stones have ever done, and that was before she came out on stage and they all blew the roof off the place.

 

 

[KenElevenShadows]

The music in that video sounds better than the studio recording to me.

[Anderton]

2 minutes ago, KenElevenShadows said:

The music in that video sounds better than the studio recording to me.

 

Do I detect a conspiracy theory in the making? 🤣

[Joe Muscara]

@KenElevenShadows This thread pops in my head a lot due to your thoughts about the current incarnation of the Stones vs. how I feel. I'm curious, do you feel similarly about the Black Crowes? I feel like Steve Gorman was a key part of their sound and feel and without him they've not been quite the same. I haven't seen them live but recent videos haven't grabbed me, nor did the live album they put out.

 

Similarly, I wasn't a huge fan of Gabe Ford when he replaced Richie Hayward of Little Feat. At first, I wasn't sure of their latest drummer Tony Leone, but having seen them live I am now.

[Greg Mein]

It's incredible and inspiring to see them performing at this level all these years later!

[Anderton]

...and (at least IMO) embracing the technology to give them a more polished sound not for the sake of polish, but to better expose what's underneath the surface.