Rhythm ideas for duo

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

Ironically I finally sold my SR16...Never really liked it, but it would come in handy right now...

The MODX has rhythm patterns that should be just as good or better than an SR-16.😎

[Stokely]

Yeah that is a consideration.   

I found an ipad app that has pads, decent-enough sounds, an easy to change tempo control and patterns.  For now I'm going to use it, maybe see how easy the Modx rhythm stuff is to mess with as well.   The bummer is that as I said the modx has one output not working though I can go mono.   The PA we would use are two mini-line arrays and mixer used by my friend with his regular band (might be the smaller EV evolves, not positive) and those can go behind the performers.  stereo would be pretty nice  

[Alexander Nagel]

On 7/21/2023 at 5:19 PM, D. Gauss said:

You'd be surprised how effective kick on 1 & 3 and snare on 2 & 4 with no hats is in this situation.  i.e. one simple beat for everything, no hats, no fills, just change the tempo to taste and keep it lower than normal in the mix, and use regular drums sounds not bombastic 80's cannons. 

no programming involved, can do straight time, or shuffle, swing, or country 2-beat without changing anything but tempo. plus you're free to play parts (especially the bass) in all the holes without the drums telling you what to do.  

 

I often play without a drummer in various band configurations (solo, duo, trio....). I use two trigger pedals into a ROLAND TM-2 drum module to play downbeat kick drum (right foot) and backbeat snare/clap/snap/etc. with my left foot - like here in this short clip. Everything except the female vocal is played live by my two hands and feet - works great for me and fills the dancefloor without using any track/styles/loops that would kill my inspiration completely 🙂

[Stokely]

Very nice, simple yet effective!

Unfortunately I wouldn't trust my feet.  If I move while playing, it's not even in time   My hands are good, feet not so much.  I can reliably head nod but that might look weird with a harness attached to a pedal or something     The bigger issue maybe is that I'll be singing lead on most songs.  Who knows though, might be worth a shot.

My buddy, maybe...but he's also planning on doing some left-hand bass unless we just leave that out (which I think might work better).   He has brought up the foot pedal idea previously.



 

[AnotherScott]

People have mentioned MODX, but there are much better solutions for keyboards with backing drums which will provide more flexibility and easier setup. This is a case where, yeah, with some effort, you can make a MODX do almost anything, but if it's not what it was designed to do, you can easily end up putting in a lot more effort for a lesser result, compared to something actually designed to do this kind of thing.

 

Depending on budget and other requirements, I'd look at Casio CT-S500, Roland Fantom-0, or an arranger (most if not all of these Korg "professional arrangers" and these Yamaha PSR models should do nicely... they may default to "full accompaniment" but you can disable all the non-drum parts).

 

Functions I've looked for for similar purposes, which you may like as well, and what brought me to the boards mentioned above...

 

... While playing LH bass, can I change my RH sound on the fly (to any of a wide range of alternate possibilities), without interrupting the drums, and without always having to program the particular right hand sounds I'll want for a given song in advance? (And the RH sound switch should preferably be done without the first RH sound cutting off, if I was holding that sound with the sustain pedal, or it's a sound with a long release.)

 

... Can I hit easily accessible buttons on the fly to initiate a drum ending, insert a fill, or switch between an "A" rhythm and a "B" rhythm (e.g. for a song whose drums start gentler but need to transition to something more intense further into the song, or to switch between verse and chorus rhythms, or to employ a different rhythm for a bridge)? If there are more than merely A and B possibilities, so much the better, but having at least two rhythms you can use in a song, plus an ending, and maybe a fill, is a lot nicer than a simple start-stop.

 

A separate drum machine, or possibly a drum machine app, could work too, but I like the idea of having it in the keyboard. You can get advantages like controls that are ergonomically better placed for live performance access while playing, you can have it start playing automatically on the first note you play (a flashing light will give you your tempo).

[Stokely]

My buddy actually does have a Fantom-07.

I really don't envision going down a more complex road of chained patterns, fills, transitions mapping out whole songs.   If I do all that, I could bring out my laptop with logic pro and go whole hog and have better sounds with more experience with the sequencer (me on LPX).   And in my brain, if I do all that, why not just render tracks....  At most, I'm thinking turning beats on and off or muting drums (if it's easy)...I can personally stomach that much automation but not much more

 

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

....you can make a MODX do almost anything, but if it's not what it was designed to do...

 

Depending on budget and other requirements, I'd look at Casio CT-S500, Roland Fantom-0, or an arranger....

The MODX will do exactly what the OP intends as it relates to rhythm parts. 

 

Very little effort required beyond finding the right pattern and hitting the play button.

 

It certainly does not make sense to spend money on another KB for canned rhythms. 

 

I know we like to kill mosquitoes with hammers around here.  Sometimes, spray or a swatter will do the job just fine.  😎

[Stokely]

Yeah, I'm going to fire up the Modx tonight and see how easy it might be to do a simple beat.   One plus is I'd for sure be able to play along if I had the drums mapped on the keys.   Say we did "In the Air Tonight", I'd have those big toms ready to play!

Looks like you can attach one per performance, which makes sense since I notice the performances have a tempo (which I only use to set delay times in the ballpark!)   I know there are performances in there with "hold" keys on splits, the idea being you hit the key and let the "AI" (sorry!) play and you jam over it.   Suffice it to say I've done almost zero with these types of patches, I only know about them from playing them by accident as they get thrown into the same categories as others  

I normally have way less patches than songs (re-using a lot of them) but to use the rhythms easily I might have to to 1:1.  Again though I expect even if we use drums it won't be on everything.

[DaveMcM]

23 hours ago, Alexander Nagel said:

 

I often play without a drummer in various band configurations (solo, duo, trio....). I use two trigger pedals into a ROLAND TM-2 drum module to play downbeat kick drum (right foot) and backbeat snare/clap/snap/etc. with my left foot - like here in this short clip. Everything except the female vocal is played live by my two hands and feet - works great for me and fills the dancefloor without using any track/styles/loops that would kill my inspiration completely 🙂

Very nice! Many years ago I saw a video of a guy playing/singing an up-tempo versions of Misty on piano, a real kick drum with his right foot and a real hi hat with his left foot. Can't remember where I saw it and I'm pretty sure it was before YouTube existed.

 

As for drum machines, a long time ago I used a Roland CR80 in a trio of sax, bass and keyboards. The sounds/styles may not be up to todays standards but at the time it worked out great. 4 Intros, 4 Variations, 4 Fills and 4 Endings, a 4 count break and several live pads with a assortment of sounds (I mostly used the kick and crash hit). There were also sliders to adjust volumes of the various parts in real-time. I would love to have another one actually.

 

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, Stokely said:

I really don't envision going down a more complex road of chained patterns, fills, transitions mapping out whole songs. 

Me neither. 🙂 I'm all about doing things on the fly. I don't map stuff out in advance, I don't chain patterns, I've never even used a sequencer in any of the many boards I've had that have had them. But the Roland lets you pick a beat and a tempo, and they automatically give you buttons for fills and endings. You don't have to create them, chain them, or do anything else, except hit the button when you want them.

 

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

The MODX will do exactly what the OP intends as it relates to rhythm parts. 

 

Very little effort required beyond finding the right pattern and hitting the play button.

 

I really did try to make a MODX work for this kind of thing. Like I said, too much effort for too little result, unless you want to do little beyond start playing a beat and a sound or two, and make no further changes (to the beat or the sounds you're playing) for the duration of the song... which not only limits what you can do within a song, but worse (for me), also means programming a separate Performance for almost every song, which I don't want to have to do.

 

Here's a scenario to think about: On the fly, you want to segue from one song to another that has the same beat, and all you need to do is change the sounds you're playing. If you think that can be useful, it may not be as simple as it sounds.

 

For extensive discussion of trying to get a MODX to do the kinds of things I wanted to do in these respects, and the complications/limitations/glitches that arose, see the thread at  https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/is-there-a-drum-machine-in-the-modx

 

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

It certainly does not make sense to spend money on another KB for canned rhythms. 

 

Their current inventory includes the MODX and the Fantom-0. The Fantom-0 I also mentioned is a much better board for this task, which in this case won't cost them anything.

 

For others following the thread with possible interesting in similar things, the Casio CT-S500 I mentioned is moderately priced, compact, and light. Plus you can use it as a keytar for your finale! 🙂

[ProfD]

9 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

...unless you want to do little beyond start playing a beat and a sound or two, and make no further changes....

From what I've gathered in reading this thread, it's that simple. 

 

This KB-based duo may want to add some rhythmic elements. A kick and a snare.  Maybe beat a cajon.  A whole beat.  No fills or segues.

 

IOW, I don't believe they're going full Pet Shop Boys.🤣😎

[RABid]

heh heh. It is so easy for us to suggest that they go 4 steps further and make it complicated. Keeping it simple, just using a single pattern and hitting start and stop after setting the BPM does have an advantage. No loosing your place, worrying about singing a verse while the machine is playing a course, having the machine reach the end before you are ready, etc... One simple beat allows you to stop a song whenever you want.

[AnotherScott]

26 minutes ago, RABid said:

heh heh. It is so easy for us to suggest that they go 4 steps further and make it complicated. Keeping it simple, just using a single pattern and hitting start and stop after setting the BPM does have an advantage. No loosing your place, worrying about singing a verse while the machine is playing a course, having the machine reach the end before you are ready, etc... One simple beat allows you to stop a song whenever you want.

You can certainly use the boards I suggested that way. They add more capabilities, yes, but some can actually make things easier. Like being able to hit a button and know that the drums will do a fill to an ending after another two measures or whatever, which is actually more "relaxing" than having to hit the Stop button exactly ON your last beat, at a time when both your hands are likely to be busy.